Why does the average NBA fan undervalue some of our pieces

[King Ken]

Al Horford, Paul Millsap and Dennis Schroeder being the main ones.

Horford has been nothing short of a very good player for us. Has been a star and has giving us so much in terms of production even if the stats aren't there. He does so many little things well and can be used out of position and still perform well. He could be even better at his natural position next to legit center.

Sap has been a stalwart for us since his arrival. I agree that he is not special, he is still a good player and one of the better PF's in the league and really spreads the court like jelly and his hands are amazing.

Dennis is one par to becoming the next superstar. Unquestionable so. His pace of improvement with his talent is comparable with the likes of Gary Payton, John Stockton and other great players. So why is it others don't see him as great trade value when they clearly see the talent.

Jeff doesn't get the respect he deserves either nor does Kyle Korver.

[Hawk Eye]

The problem is the asking price you labeled for Dennis over on the T&T board. You said that you wouldn't trade Dennis for anything less than Jabari, Giannis, or Wiggins. I will post my reasoning for why bucks fans will never trade Giannis for Schroeder so other Hawks posters can see.

"Bucks will say no 10 out of 10 times. While both players do have the star potential upside, Giannis has more of it. The kid is 19-20, he is 6"10 or 6"11 I believe, has been experimented in every single position at Milwaukee other than center. The Greek freak just has the better length (actually superstar length), better height, and therefore higher potential."

So now we are left with Andrew Wiggins & Jabari Parker.

There is a reason why these guys were selected #1 and #2. If Schroeder supposedly has the same upside star potential as these two then how come he wasn't selected higher in the 2013 draft? Another thing worth nothing is that point guards are generally "a dime a dozen". Teams aren't going to be so quick to trade a high upside lengthy SF/PF for a high upside PG.

I'm not trying to knock Schroeder because I love the kid and do agree that he has star potential. One thing that is hurting him is the fact that he doesn't have the keys to the offense so to speak. When this kid eventally takes over as our starting PG and receives more minutes then his stock will increase substantially.

[King Ken]

The problem is the asking price you labeled for Dennis over on the T&T board. You said that you wouldn't trade Dennis for anything less than Jabari, Giannis, or Wiggins. I will post my reasoning for why bucks fans will never trade Giannis for Schroeder so other Hawks posters can see.

"Bucks will say no 10 out of 10 times. While both players do have the star potential upside, Giannis has more of it. The kid is 19-20, he is 6"10 or 6"11 I believe, has been experimented in every single position at Milwaukee other than center. The Greek freak just has the better length (actually superstar length), better height, and therefore higher potential."

So now we are left with Andrew Wiggins & Jabari Parker.

There is a reason why these guys were selected #1 and #2. If Schroeder supposedly has the same upside star potential as these two then how come he wasn't selected higher in the 2013 draft? Another thing worth nothing is that point guards are generally "a dime a dozen". Teams aren't going to be so quick to trade a high upside lengthy SF/PF for a high upside PG.

I'm not trying to knock Schroeder because I love the kid and do agree that he has star potential. One thing that is hurting him is the fact that he doesn't have the keys to the offense so to speak. When this kid eventally takes over as our starting PG and receives more minutes then his stock will increase substantially.

Giannis was taking two picks before Dennis. Both Giannis and Dennis were seen as the high potential raw prospects and both have improved tremendously. Dennis has elite wingspan, speed, quickness and court vision. His defense is elite as a 2nd yr pro. Dennis is one of the best talents in the NBA right now and clearly the best talent on our team. He's still raw just like Giannis who is still raw.

I agree about Parker's and Wiggins's value but that is what it's going to take to get someone like Dennis from our nest.

He's not going to start over Jeff right now. Jeff is playing at a top 10 PG level. Dennis and Jeff play well together so we will see more of the Dennis-Jeff backcourt fits.

[dms269]

Quick reasons.

1. Millsap is expiring without bird years.
2. Horford's injuries.
3. Schroder not getting a ton of pt before this season. He is also not a flashy scorer.

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[Rip2137]

How in the hell does one 3 consistent weeks as a backup make Dennis a undeniable superstar in the making? He is going to be a hall of famer now...based on NOVEMBER.

[theatlfan]

Quick reasons.

1. Millsap is expiring without bird years.
2. Horford's injuries.
3. Schroder not getting a ton of pt before this season. He is also not a flashy scorer.

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ftr, Millsap would come with Early Bird Rights which would give any team the ability to offer a contract starting @ 175% of his current salary - or ~$16.5M. Maybe it's just me, but I somehow doubt that Millsap will even command that much...

[dms269]

Quick reasons.

1. Millsap is expiring without bird years.
2. Horford's injuries.
3. Schroder not getting a ton of pt before this season. He is also not a flashy scorer.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using RealGM Forums mobile app

ftr, Millsap would come with Early Bird Rights which would give any team the ability to offer a contract starting @ 175% of his current salary - or ~$16.5M. Maybe it's just me, but I somehow doubt that Millsap will even command that much...

Most teams wouldn't want to offer Millsap a deal starting at 16.5 million. That severely limits what teams can do with him. Either you have cap space, which kind of negates trading for him, or you severely overpay with his new contract.

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[MaceCase]

Don't get banned again.

[theatlfan]

Quick reasons.

1. Millsap is expiring without bird years.
2. Horford's injuries.
3. Schroder not getting a ton of pt before this season. He is also not a flashy scorer.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using RealGM Forums mobile app

ftr, Millsap would come with Early Bird Rights which would give any team the ability to offer a contract starting @ 175% of his current salary - or ~$16.5M. Maybe it's just me, but I somehow doubt that Millsap will even command that much...

Most teams wouldn't want to offer Millsap a deal starting at 16.5 million. That severely limits what teams can do with him. Either you have cap space, which kind of negates trading for him, or you severely overpay with his new contract.

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uh... whut?

This was in response to your comment saying that Millsap is an "expiring without Bird Years". If he had Full Bird Rights, then the trading team could offer even more $$... but this response directly contradicts the need to offer Millsap more $$. Am I missing something?

[amcfad27]

Labeled as a "small market" not a lot of hype around Atlanta. Guys are good, but not "exciting" players. Perennial treadmill team...

[dms269]

ftr, Millsap would come with Early Bird Rights which would give any team the ability to offer a contract starting @ 175% of his current salary - or ~$16.5M. Maybe it's just me, but I somehow doubt that Millsap will even command that much...

Most teams wouldn't want to offer Millsap a deal starting at 16.5 million. That severely limits what teams can do with him. Either you have cap space, which kind of negates trading for him, or you severely overpay with his new contract.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using RealGM Forums mobile app

uh... whut?

This was in response to your comment saying that Millsap is an "expiring without Bird Years". If he had Full Bird Rights, then the trading team could offer even more $$... but this response directly contradicts the need to offer Millsap more $$. Am I missing something?

I would assume it is a stance of you not quite understanding what I meant.

Most teams do not feel Millsap is worth a deal starting at 16.5M per year, because in all honesty he is not. It would make him a top 15 paid player. This means that if a team does trade for him (and they are over the cap) then they have to offer him the 16.5M or he is gone. If a team is under the cap, then they would likely just wait until free agency to make an offer to him rather than trade any valuable resources.

Atlanta wants a return for Millsap based on his production, but signing him to a 2 year deal severely restricted teams interest in him.

[theatlfan]

Most teams wouldn't want to offer Millsap a deal starting at 16.5 million. That severely limits what teams can do with him. Either you have cap space, which kind of negates trading for him, or you severely overpay with his new contract.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using RealGM Forums mobile app

uh... whut?

This was in response to your comment saying that Millsap is an "expiring without Bird Years". If he had Full Bird Rights, then the trading team could offer even more $$... but this response directly contradicts the need to offer Millsap more $$. Am I missing something?

I would assume it is a stance of you not quite understanding what I meant.

Most teams do not feel Millsap is worth a deal starting at 16.5M per year, because in all honesty he is not. It would make him a top 15 paid player. This means that if a team does trade for him (and they are over the cap) then they have to offer him the 16.5M or he is gone. If a team is under the cap, then they would likely just wait until free agency to make an offer to him rather than trade any valuable resources.

Atlanta wants a return for Millsap based on his production, but signing him to a 2 year deal severely restricted teams interest in him.

I am not sure if I am terribly confused or what...

At 1st, I was responding to the comment that "Millsap is an expiring without Bird years". This would seem to imply that the issue is that a team that would be trading for him would be taking a rental since the team would still have to use cap room to sign him. To this, I pointed out that Millsap has Early Bird Rights which would mean a team trading for him would, in all likelihood, have plenty of head room to make a competitive offer without going up to the max that they could offer with those rights.

The answer here was that a "team wouldn't want to offer Millsap a deal starting @ $16.5M". Now this is fair but it really doesn't have anything to do with what I said nor does the ability to offer Millsap that much force them to do so. So in my 2nd response, I went back to the original comment and pointed out that if the team had Full Bird Rights, then they would be able to offer *more* money so if they don't want to offer what they could offer with Early Bird, then who cares if they have Full Bird? And now here we are...

Now, I agree that if you have the cap room to make a run, then it doesn't make sense to blow it before you know what my options are. Still, I'm not one who particularly cares about expiring deals. As far as I'm concerned, it gives you the head start in convincing a player to stay. You bring him in and prove to him what the team (and the city) is all about. Come FA time, assuming that you put up a competitive bid, you should be in a better position to keep the player than if you simply waited until FA to put on the full court press. May be just me though.

[dms269]

My statement with Millsap is this. Let's pick a team and say the Rockets traded for Millsap. They really like Millsap and want to bring him back, but uh oh, Houston only has 10 million in salary cap space. They can offer Millsap a deal starting at 6 or so million (cap holds and what not), but Millsap knows he is worth more than that. Houston could offer Millsap a deal starting at 16.5M, but Houston does not feel he is worth that much money as he would be making top 15 money when he is obviously not top 15 talent. So Houston basically rented Millsap as they have no way to sign him.

If I am a team who is going to have cap space, I don't see the reasoning to give up much in the way of talent for him. I can wait until the offseason and throw big money at him while keeping my talent. Maybe he could get used to the city but it is a risk.

I think we feel he is worth more than what teams would pay for him.