Atlanta Hawks Draft Discussion Thread Part 3

[theatlfan]

Assuming the following:
- Hawks make a DEEP playoff run (ECF or better)
- Nets fail to make the playoffs, landing us a lottery pick

How would you guys feel about trading our pick, even a Top 5 pick, for future picks down the road? Looking at our roster now I think we're well-equipped across the board, and anything less than an exceptional rookie would find it hard to crack our rotation. Drafting someone and then not giving them sufficient playing time to develop would seem like a waste, and if we could parlay our pick into a bevy of picks a year out that might be the better option.

For example, say we get the #2 pick. Mudiay isn't going to get time when we already have Teague and Dennis; makes more sense for us to trade him to the Lakers for their 2016 and 2018 picks, when they'll likely still be bad in 2016 running a rotation of Mudiay and Jordan Hill. We'd then get an additional pick as well.

Top 3 - probably not. 1st, you never get equal value for high level talent, you just can't. That's why superstars are only traded when they demand out. If we're the team getting an established superstar - ala a Durant - then it'd be more interesting to think on, but if all we're getting is picks in the future, then it's an easy pass for me. 2nd, as I put just above this post, I don't see Mudiay as the consensus clear cut #2 guy (he's #2, just not consensus) in this draft right now anyway so passing on him for a better fit wouldn't be as big a deal as some would think. Also, it isn't like we're DET where they had a definite system that they expected to cram Darko into, Coach Bud likes to give multiple looks with his various lineups and he looks for ways to showcase the strengths of his talent. His system is the frame that holds the car together, not necessarily the car that would need a specific part for replacement. (BTW, it doesn't change the conversation, but LAL has traded a couple of their picks into the future with the Nash and Dwight deals... I think the 1st one they can deal might be in '19 and that's before protections for the already traded picks kick in.)

Now, if the pick ends up 8-16, then I could see a trade as a much more interesting prospect. If the position we're at has Hezonja or even Looney on the board, then dealing the player for future asset would make more sense to me. As I allude to in the post above, I think we could still grab someone for a "Kawhi"-type role especially in the 10-12 area, but hey, he would still just be a prospect who could be that so it's not like we couldn't guarantee ourselves the extra 2%.

[MrTwister]

To be honest i am surprised you dont like Hezonja, imo he is probably best wing in the draft plus Hawks would be perfect place for his further development.Not sure why you think of him as selfish and limited player with no upside.

[theatlfan]

To be honest i am surprised you dont like Hezonja, imo he is probably best wing in the draft plus Hawks would be perfect place for his further development.Not sure why you think of him as selfish and limited player with no upside.

Good call out on my use of "limited". I meant it as the opposite of versatile but the context I used it in was obviously wrong for that meaning. To be clear: I think he can play either wing but I don't see him doing anything but scoring on more than an average level. He does have huge upside as a scorer though.

On the flip side, "selfish" has been the word I've seen in every scouting report I've read as well as any vids I've seen. Overdribbles, ISO player who is looking for his shot, can pass but too often won't, disinterested defensively - all of these words / quotes show up in multiple sources and that my eye balls have agreed with.

He has upside to be sure but I'd think a team that could use instant offense would be a better landing spot. On a veteran team like ours, the rookie will be expected to find a role that suits him without stepping on toes - it doesn't seem like that would be something that Hezonja would be interested in doing. I wouldn't think he was a terrible pick if someone took him ahead of us, but if he's off the board when we're selecting (assuming we're still around 10), I'll be thinking that there's (at least) 1 guy there who I didn't expect.

[FCNATL85]

Devin Booker if available, good shooter who could learn behind Kyle Korver for a few years before taking the lead...

[MrTwister]

To be honest i am surprised you dont like Hezonja, imo he is probably best wing in the draft plus Hawks would be perfect place for his further development.Not sure why you think of him as selfish and limited player with no upside.

Good call out on my use of "limited". I meant it as the opposite of versatile but the context I used it in was obviously wrong for that meaning. To be clear: I think he can play either wing but I don't see him doing anything but scoring on more than an average level. He does have huge upside as a scorer though.

On the flip side, "selfish" has been the word I've seen in every scouting report I've read as well as any vids I've seen. Overdribbles, ISO player who is looking for his shot, can pass but too often won't, disinterested defensively - all of these words / quotes show up in multiple sources and that my eye balls have agreed with.

He has upside to be sure but I'd think a team that could use instant offense would be a better landing spot. On a veteran team like ours, the rookie will be expected to find a role that suits him without stepping on toes - it doesn't seem like that would be something that Hezonja would be interested in doing. I wouldn't think he was a terrible pick if someone took him ahead of us, but if he's off the board when we're selecting (assuming we're still around 10), I'll be thinking that there's (at least) 1 guy there who I didn't expect.

I think i now understand your reasoning.However, I am a little more closer to his situation so i will try to explain some of things you mentioned above.

I think NBA game would suit him better than in Euro ball.He tends to play selfishly because he is trying to step up and earn more minutes in his team rotation when injured players get back.Hence ballhoging and iso plays.Good thing is that he always delivered when given minutes, especially this season where he had multiple 5+ 3 pointer games including 8/8 from downtown 2 weeks ago.His off-ball movement is amazing, he can get open at will and not just jack up bad contested shots, most of his shots are catch-and-shoot and spot-up shots.His passing game in underrated, in U16 tournament him and Saric were throwing some sick passes to each other it looked like they are far more advanced from their peers.He is your perfect secondary ball-handler which can create from pick n roll.His defense is best described as "inconsistent".He can play lockdown defense when he wants and he kinda always stepped his D up in big games against stronger opponents and likes to take over best opposing perimeter player because he mentioned several times in his interviews that he aims to be best by learning from the best.I guess he can sometimes get a little bit handsy and too aggressive but sometimes he doesn't even get in the proper defensive stance but gets away with it by good lateral movement and athleticism for european standards.I dont think he will be able to get away with that in NBA.I am sure with good coaching and development he will learn to give consistent effort in defense and he is getting better each day.One thing which probably nobody will ever tell you is that his scouting information is outdated while he improved a bit this season.Most of the scouting videos and reports are from last season where he barely played.Nobody can even tell you about his wingspan nor official measurements because nobody cared enough to ask, even though he is considered a lottery pick.All those infos are from last season.

Barcelona wing rotation is 8 players deep and he got minutes because 2 of their players went down with an injury.One of the reasons he got upped in rotation is because his NBA agent interfered because he used to spend entire game on the bench while NBA scouts was coming to watch him play.Some NBA scouts basically wasted their time coming to the games and weren't happy.Barcelona is european powerhouse which plays in 2 strongest competitions after NBA and mostly veteran players getting upper hand while young talents are sometimes neglected, especially when they are not from Spain.It doesnt help that his team is going season after season for the highest European trophies and in that situation european coaches always going with proven veterans over gambling with young players.

I think that Mario is gonna be a special player, and having him in Hawks learning from guys like Korver and Thabo, running their offensive sets/defensive drills would certainly help him grow as a player.Not just be volume scorer but some kind of Klay Thompson kind of player.

[theatlfan]

^^ Everything you say is fair and I can see why someone would think one way versus the other. Further, I also agree that the more detailed reports I've seen are from last season and the years before. This isn't odd for someone stateside to not get better info as the Euro season progresses but I do acknowledge the info can be out of date.

But the problems with him fitting in here still exists though. 1st if he comes here then he'll be, at best, the 5th wing in a 4 wing rotation. If he's pressing to get more minutes now, then why would he stop if he came into our situation? 2nd, while it's hardly a huge knock for a teenager to need to work on defensive effort, I also think that's a pretty big trait for us and one in which Coach Bud has given a 1-way ticket into his doghouse to at least 1 other prospect (Jenkins). I still think his best fit would be with a team that could give him free rein of the 2nd team though - something that Schröder has on lockdown until the logjam between him and Teague is relieved which I don't think we're in any particular hurry to do.

Still I think it's splitting hairs between the 3 wings after Johnson. One team could value Oubre's upside versus Winslow's NBA-game ready all around game or Hezonja who lies between the 2 IMO. Assuming our FO sees what you see, then I'd be happy in taking him... And absolutely ecstatic if we got him @ 12.

[hawkschop1]

Perhaps the interviewer is awful but man WCS seems so unprofessional/immature in this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCDLbtYL91M

disappointing because I thought he was a solid option. not sure now. thoughts?

[atlantabbq99]

How about some undrafted free agent prospects.

Jon Horford, hustle player with a decent jump shot. He is a good team player and he looks like he is an inch taller than Al. He looks skinny, but he is listed at 250lbs.

[theatlfan]

Perhaps the interviewer is awful but man WCS seems so unprofessional/immature in this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCDLbtYL91M

disappointing because I thought he was a solid option. not sure now. thoughts?

I'm at work so I can't view this one until tonight, but from what I've seen WCS has been a little - should we say - unpolished. Personally, I don't think it's a concern, let the college kid be a kid and then make him grow up once he declares. It's be one thing if he was planning on being a one-and-done or whatever, but to his credit, he didn't go pro when he could have been a 1st rounder not once but twice. Also, to my knowledge, this immaturity hasn't manifested itself in being arrested or causing others to be particularly uncomfortable in his presence, so I can't think this would be a Jameis Winston situation.

I will say that if we had a younger team then I'd be more concerned. For instance, I wouldn't want him to walk into a situation where Demarcus Cousins would be the guy would be expected to teach him how to act like a professional. With a veteran team, I'm not as concerned though; I feel much more comfortable with Elton Brand showing him the ropes.

How about some undrafted free agent prospects.

Jon Horford, hustle player with a decent jump shot. He is a good team player and he looks like he is an inch taller than Al. He looks skinny, but he is listed at 250lbs.

For the 1st time since... well, possibly since I've followed any draft outside of MLB, I'm not too concerned with the UDFA market. We currently have 11 guys under contract for next season with another one (Pero) that we hold a team option for. We have 3 draft picks (the BRK/ATL 1st, our 2nd, and TOR's 2nd) and another 2-3 prospects overseas (Edy, Lamar Patterson, and whatever you think of Gladyr). I'd be a little surprised if even one of the 2nds we already have make the roster - so forth chasing the UDFA market.

Having said that, with two picks in the 50's we're definitely casting about for any sign that the player could turn into an NBA talent. I haven't looked into player who could be available (for the reasons stated above), but Horford would make more sense than most there I think. IIRC, he's Al's little brother which means that he isn't American too (well... maybe). That helps with getting him a roster spot on a national team and overseas teams can see it as a boon as well. Good bloodlines and an "in" on ensuring that he can continue to develop without having to burn a roster spot? Yeah, that's worth a pick in the 50's IMO.

[atlantabbq99]

How about some undrafted free agent prospects.

Jon Horford, hustle player with a decent jump shot. He is a good team player and he looks like he is an inch taller than Al. He looks skinny, but he is listed at 250lbs.

As I predicted, Jon Horford is going to be on the Hawks summer league. I'm not really expecting much from Jon. He will probably need 2 or 3 summer leagues and a season or two in the d-league, but here is hoping he is involved with the Hawks organization for the next 2 or 3 years.

Here is the full summer league roster...

Brandon Ashley F 6-9 230 Arizona R
Tomas Bellas G 6-1 198 Gran Canaria R
Josh Davis F 6-8 215 San Diego St. R
Jon Horford F 6-10 250 Florida R
Stephen Holt G 6-4 195 Saint Mary’s R
DeAndre Kane G 6-5 210 Iowa St. R
Abraham Millsap G 6-4 190 Tennessee St. R
Trey McKinney-Jones G 6-5 220 Miami R
Mike Moser F 6-8 211 Oregon R
Mike Muscala F/C 6-11 240 Bucknell 2
Lamar Patterson G/F 6-5 225 Pittsburgh R
Terran Petteway G/F 6-6 215 Nebraska R
Greg Smith F 6-10 250 Fresno St. 4
Walter Tavares C 7-3 250 Gran Canaria R
Elston Turner G 6-5 211 Texas A&M R

Millsap's brother Abraham is also going to be on the summer league.

As expected, Austin Daye isn't on the roster, but he just had a 50pt game in the Drew League.

[Jamaaliver]

Zach Lowe over at Grantland mentions in a piece about the Hornets that ATL actually had a standing deal in place to trade our 15th draft pick to Boston at one point on draft night.

So it seems we pretty much had no intention of keeping that pick at all.

As the drama unfolded the next night, Boston put Charlotte on the other end of a quantity-for-quality pitch. The Celtics offered four first-round picks for the chance to move up from no. 16 to no. 9: that 16th pick, no. 15 (acquired in a prearranged contingency deal with the Hawks)...

Pleased we were focused on going all-in for this year?
Disappointed we weren't looking at obtaining pieces for the long term?
Thoughts on what might have been coming to us from Boston?