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Will Bud make a deal?

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Will Bud make a deal? 

Post#1 » by td00 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:17 pm

I saw a rumor that the Hawks were monitoring the waiver wire very closely as it does appear Bud will want someone to take our last roster slot.
With DMC and Thabo showing injuries this year, is Bud looking for a wing to fill that final slot?

We have about 4.9M and I totally expect Ray Allen to join LeBron or stay away.

2 on the wish list if its possible:

Tayshaun Prince - if he gets placed on waivers, I think we have a terrific shot at him. With Amare sounding like he can pick his team, I expect Tayshaun can also do that. It doesn't mean I expect a lot from Tayshaun, but having the depth would be excellent.

Enes Kanter - Now this one would be very tough IMO to pull off, although we could deal with Utah and give them a player+draft pick.
What would you give up? If we could pull in Tayshaun, I might be inclined to move Mack or Bazemore for what we need to get playoff ready. Kanter could end up being a protector just in case Milsap gets overpaid elsewhere.

Does Bazemore do more for us than Bazemore would come playoff time?
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Re: Will Bud make a deal? 

Post#2 » by Skyhawk1 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:44 pm

I like Kanter's game. He's still a bit raw and plays out on the perimeter a lot, but he's got a nice skill set and though he's not that good defensively, you can pair him with Horford and we got a nice frontcourt. I would offer the Jazz this year's first round plus anyone other than our starters + Shroder ( I can't spell his name). That's probably not enough but you never know, trade deadline is when panic mode strikes!
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Re: Will Bud make a deal? 

Post#3 » by theatlfan » Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:41 am

Really like the idea of Prince. Thought he was the best player on BOS when we played last week. Would be an ideal replacement for Thabo in the short term and could morph into another role if Thabo comes back to 100%.

Don't see Kanter as a target though. We seem to value D in our bigs and I don't see us giving up a 1st for one who doesn't play that end well.
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Re: Will Bud make a deal? 

Post#4 » by td00 » Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:23 am

I'll defend Kanter in this way; he has to have someone who emphasizes defense IMO to get him encouraged to play defense.

He has a 9' wing span, and I think that at age 22, we could get him to work on this system and grow with Sap and Al. It would be an excellent rotation and there's plenty of minutes for those 3 guys + Scott.

Kanter improves us immediately over Antic. I don't think we drop much in defense either.
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Re: Will Bud make a deal? 

Post#5 » by hawkschop1 » Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:37 am

How about we bring back Gustavo Ayon? The concern about our team chemistry isn't a factor and we don't give up any assets (we still have a cap hold bc we never surrendered his rights, right?)...he knows the system blah blah blah :lol:

It's so crazy it just might work.
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Re: Will Bud make a deal? 

Post#6 » by theatlfan » Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:57 am

td00 wrote:I'll defend Kanter in this way; he has to have someone who emphasizes defense IMO to get him encouraged to play defense.

He has a 9' wing span, and I think that at age 22, we could get him to work on this system and grow with Sap and Al. It would be an excellent rotation and there's plenty of minutes for those 3 guys + Scott.

Kanter improves us immediately over Antic. I don't think we drop much in defense either.
There are advanced stats that disagree strongly with that last line. Antic provides very little offensively, but he's a heady player and decent defender. Largely because of his D, Real +/- rates him as the 32nd best PF in the league - which is about what you'd expect from a good backup. Kanter, OTOH, is actually dead last in D for Cs for the defensive metric of the same stat - 74th out of 74 qualifiers - and it isn't close. Literally 50% under 2nd worst. And let's not pretend that his O is other-worldly either - adding in the offensive component carries him up to 67th C in the league. The position are different so the raw numbers aren't really comparable but it's interesting to note that Pero ranks better in O too.

Now, no stat is a be-all end-all but several agree on the points that a) you're severely underrating Pero defensively (and possibly overrating Kanter at the same time) and b) if all you care about is this year, then you take Pero over Kanter. I don't disagree that Kanter is younger and maybe he'll be good in time, but for a team with championship aspirations, I could think of better uses of fungible assets than to invest in a lotto ticket that I'm looking to mature in a year or 2. I mean if he isn't improving under Coach Snyder and his staff then I don't know why he would under ours. It's not like our main assistant last season does things radically different than we do.

I wouldn't mind kicking the tires in FA and seeing what it would take to land him though. If we're going to take the time to show him the ropes then I'd much prefer doing that in camp instead of mid-season.
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Re: Will Bud make a deal? 

Post#7 » by simon24 » Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:12 am

td00 wrote:I saw a rumor that the Hawks were monitoring the waiver wire very closely as it does appear Bud will want someone to take our last roster slot.
With DMC and Thabo showing injuries this year, is Bud looking for a wing to fill that final slot?

We have about 4.9M and I totally expect Ray Allen to join LeBron or stay away.

2 on the wish list if its possible:

Tayshaun Prince - if he gets placed on waivers, I think we have a terrific shot at him. With Amare sounding like he can pick his team, I expect Tayshaun can also do that. It doesn't mean I expect a lot from Tayshaun, but having the depth would be excellent.

Enes Kanter - Now this one would be very tough IMO to pull off, although we could deal with Utah and give them a player+draft pick.
What would you give up? If we could pull in Tayshaun, I might be inclined to move Mack or Bazemore for what we need to get playoff ready. Kanter could end up being a protector just in case Milsap gets overpaid elsewhere.

Does Bazemore do more for us than Bazemore would come playoff time?


I think he's waiting for a wing. Neal or Allen.
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Re: Will Bud make a deal? 

Post#8 » by PandaKidd » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:38 pm

I second Prince. Would be a great add.

I dont want anything to do with Ray Allen. Kanter I am intrigued, but as we just got rid of a big, i cant see us trading for another big.
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Re: Will Bud make a deal? 

Post#9 » by Hawk Eye » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:59 pm

I like prince as well. He played great in our first game against Memphis earlier in the season. He has a lot of length. With the reports looming that Boston may buy him out I don't see why we don't just trade a 2nd or JJ for him?
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Re: Will Bud make a deal? 

Post#10 » by td00 » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:04 am

For us to get Tayshaun, I think it would take a trade.

We should have enough cap room for it, and so what if we don't. The team is being sold north of 800M; what's 3-5m in luxury tax? Its not like the current regime hasn't been taking kickbacks for years by staying under the cap.

Time to add a piece or 2 for a run to the ECF and maybe the real Finals.
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Re: Will Bud make a deal? 

Post#11 » by PandaKidd » Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:33 pm

NBA Trade Rumors: Hawks open to moving John Jenkins at deadline, per report http://sbnation.com/e/7827450
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Re: Will Bud make a deal? 

Post#12 » by Hawk Eye » Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:00 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/cvivlamoreajc/status/568177493578010624[/tweet]

So does this mean we won't use our open roster spot?
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Re: Will Bud make a deal? 

Post#13 » by Hawk Eye » Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:26 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/peachtreehoops/status/568186233572200448[/tweet]
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Re: Will Bud make a deal? 

Post#14 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:42 pm

PMOTT3 wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/cvivlamoreajc/status/568177493578010624[/tweet]

So does this mean we won't use our open roster spot?


So then, why the heck did we just jettison Adreian for 2nd round picks in 2021?

We'd literally rather have an open space on the bench for Gatorade than have an athletic backup big in case of injury or foul trouble?

Was AP seriously that terrible?

Why didn't we just package that draft pick in trade during the summer?

We've been getting killed in the paint for months, but the front office still refuses to acknowledge that we could use an upgrade.

Do they seriously not remember last season's playoffs? Pero and Brand were historically awful.
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Re: Will Bud make a deal? 

Post#15 » by xccelerate » Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:08 pm

Via interviews that coach Bud has given recently, he has stated that he views our front court as a positive for what they bring defensively. He has also jokingly said a couple of times now that the coaching staff talks about how they can't give everyone enough minutes in those positions.

Guessing Payne was at the very end of the line to get minutes at those minute-strapped positions for the forseeable future. They probably wanted to sell while his value was relatively high before he rides the bench on a playoff team. Also, they probably don't want another John Jenkins situation with a young player where they get minimal return.

As for why we drafted him in the first place, I guess the thought process was:
> Think there is a need at his position in the off season.
> Players resign and perform well those spots.
> Needs filled for the rest of the year.
> Plan to target several free agents in those positions in the next offseason?
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Re: Will Bud make a deal? 

Post#16 » by theatlfan » Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:42 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:So then, why the heck did we just jettison Adreian for 2nd round picks in 2021?

We'd literally rather have an open space on the bench for Gatorade than have an athletic backup big in case of injury or foul trouble?

Was AP seriously that terrible?

Why didn't we just package that draft pick in trade during the summer?

We've been getting killed in the paint for months, but the front office still refuses to acknowledge that we could use an upgrade.

Do they seriously not remember last season's playoffs? Pero and Brand were historically awful.

??
Just because we won't fill the last roster spot before 3 today doesn't mean it won't get filled. Buyout season has already started...

Also, not sure why we bring up what a rookie (who hit a rookie wall) and a 40 yo vet did in the playoffs after we were forced to overuse them throughout the season since the AS went down. All their performance in the playoffs proves is that we were forced to overextend and expose our backups and IND took advantage. That's what happens when you lose an AS...
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Re: Will Bud make a deal? 

Post#17 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:14 pm

theatlfan wrote:...not sure why we bring up what a rookie (who hit a rookie wall) and a 40 yo vet did in the playoffs after we were forced to overuse them throughout the season since the AS went down. All their performance in the playoffs proves is that we were forced to overextend and expose our backups and IND took advantage. That's what happens when you lose an AS...


My concern is simply depth.

Last season was ruined because we were not prepared in case of iinjury to AL.

Somehow we came back...with the exact same depth issue?

Seems like poor planning. Both seasons.

I have 0 trust in Pero or Brand to carry us if necessary.
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Re: Will Bud make a deal? 

Post#18 » by PandaKidd » Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:24 pm

Thats what people dont see, the LONG TERM implications.

We would rather ship out a rookie for nothing or worse than what we used to get him, then have depth?
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Re: Will Bud make a deal? 

Post#19 » by ATLHawksfan21 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:45 pm

PandaKidd wrote:Thats what people dont see, the LONG TERM implications.

We would rather ship out a rookie for nothing or worse than what we used to get him, then have depth?



So Payne is now irreplaceable?

They made this deal to benefit us long term. This deal created an extra roster spot which could be used to bring Tavares over next year or to bring in someone who will actually see court time.
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Re: Will Bud make a deal? 

Post#20 » by ATLHawksfan21 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:47 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
theatlfan wrote:...not sure why we bring up what a rookie (who hit a rookie wall) and a 40 yo vet did in the playoffs after we were forced to overuse them throughout the season since the AS went down. All their performance in the playoffs proves is that we were forced to overextend and expose our backups and IND took advantage. That's what happens when you lose an AS...


My concern is simply depth.

Last season was ruined because we were not prepared in case of iinjury to AL.

Somehow we came back...with the exact same depth issue?

Seems like poor planning. Both seasons.

I have 0 trust in Pero or Brand to carry us if necessary.


Last season was ruined because we suffered a wide variety of injuries.

We had a solid record in games where Teague/Korver/Carroll/Millsap/Antic started.

The problem is, Antic missed 2 months. Korver missed 11 games and we went 1-10. Carroll missed 9 and we went 1-8 in those. Millsap missed 9 and we were 2-7 in those.

and then you have Jenkins hurt for the year, Lou Will trying to play his way back from the ACL, Ayon going down for the year.

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