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Hawks offense as evolution to modern defenses

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Hawks offense as evolution to modern defenses 

Post#1 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:54 pm

Great read on Thibs dominant defenses in CHI and BOS and how SAS schemes are designed specifically to defeat them.

Over the years, as more teams adopted that style, the result has been declining percentages of isolation plays in the league. Now when you see players get the ball in isolation out on the wing it is more with the goal of starting the offensive set.

...the Spurs won a title last season with a motion offense made up of a handful of plays like the “loop” that are designed to tear apart a Thibodeau-style defense with player and ball movement. If executed properly.

This season’s Hawks — ranked sixth in the NBA at 106.6 points per 100 possessions — are executing it properly and it’s a thing of beauty.

Not every team can do what the Spurs and Hawks do.


Great read.
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Re: Hawks offense as evolution to modern defenses 

Post#2 » by PandaKidd » Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:09 pm

Always been a better way to do offense. Ball movement, when properly executed is superior to any other form of offense. I watch people play in leagues, and its mind boggling when you take a gym rat like me, who is used to playing man to man offense in any pickup game in America. You take these guys and they join a league.

In the league they play Zone almost all the time. And when you play zone, you CANT play ISO basketball like they do in pick up games. Because if you BEAT your man, theres 3 others behind him waiting for you. YOU have to pass. you have to make the zone react and then pass the ball to the open spot in the zone by cutting.

People dont get it. They try to go 1 on 3 and its hilarious. In LA Fitness you can do it, in a league with guys who practice ZONE defense, cant do it.

Motion offense can beat both types of defenses (man to man and ZONE).

good read
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Re: Hawks offense as evolution to modern defenses 

Post#3 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:37 pm

YES!!!

It bothers me when I play guys on the playground and all they do is fast break and one-on-one nonsense. Just passing the ball and cutting to the hoops opens up the floor so much.

Frustrates me that our cheap ownership for years refused to pursue a top name coach, but blindly over-paid players to play in an outdated, inefficient system.

Never made any sense that we'd pay Joe Johnson $20 million per year, but then had the lowest paid coach in the league not using him properly.

This scheme is very effective. Though I must admit watching CLE dismantle GS Warriors this week gives me pause. They have three top defenders on the floor at all times and it really effects even a top offense like theirs.

We're gonna see just how effective this system is and just how good Bud is at adjusting in the playoffs when CLE starts guarding Teague with LeBron.

If Indy Pacers could put the kibosh on our offense last offseason, a more talented Cavs team should be equally up for the challenge.
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Re: Hawks offense as evolution to modern defenses 

Post#4 » by PandaKidd » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:48 pm

CLE scares me, because they have a totally different team right now. With Mozgov and Perkins, it adds a whole new dimension to their team. Same with JR Smith and Shumpert. They may have the most loaded team now which is funny because we were talking about how their lack of depth concerned us 3 months ago.

Our team has gotten thinner with the loss of Thabo.

March 6th will be a HUGE game.
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Re: Hawks offense as evolution to modern defenses 

Post#5 » by Rip2137 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:39 pm

1: The pacers "shutdown" our offense with us playing a slightly different lineup...that Horford guy is kinda better than Antic.

2: Mozgov and Perkins aren't the thing that should scare you about Cleveland now. Mozgov is decent but Perkins is barely a nba player anymore. If anything, that helps us. It's the Shumpert/Smith thing that makes them scary.

We have consistently shown trouble with three point shooting teams. It's how the Raptors beat us up, Milwaukee, the first time we played Cleveland. All our biggest losses saw the other team exploding from three and a team with Lebron, Shump, smith, Irving, and Love...they can possibly get hot 4 times in a series and are never realm out of a game.
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Re: Hawks offense as evolution to modern defenses 

Post#6 » by azuresou1 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:44 pm

I think people are in denial of how good Cleveland is right now. Yes, the sucked earlier, but that was because they didn't have a rim protecter with Varejao injured. Also, LeBron was clearly dogging it and they didn't have any secondary talent on the wings.

Now? Mozgov isn't a world beater but he IS a very solid center who can defend, and JR and Shump are very good ancillary players. Love is still a bitch but it doesn't matter when he's also playing a more minor role.

I still think we play better basketball than them but they do have stellar talent. I'm personally hoping that they wear down over the remainder of the season (only a third left!) and that they have to face teams like Milwaukee in the 1st round.
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Re: Hawks offense as evolution to modern defenses 

Post#7 » by ATLHawksfan21 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:55 pm

Rip2137 wrote:1: The pacers "shutdown" our offense with us playing a slightly different lineup...that Horford guy is kinda better than Antic.

2: Mozgov and Perkins aren't the thing that should scare you about Cleveland now. Mozgov is decent but Perkins is barely a nba player anymore. If anything, that helps us. It's the Shumpert/Smith thing that makes them scary.

We have consistently shown trouble with three point shooting teams. It's how the Raptors beat us up, Milwaukee, the first time we played Cleveland. All our biggest losses saw the other team exploding from three and a team with Lebron, Shump, smith, Irving, and Love...they can possibly get hot 4 times in a series and are never realm out of a game.


That Schroder guys is a heck of a lot better than that Mack/Lou Will guy too.

That Indiana defense is a lot better than this Cleveland defense.
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Re: Hawks offense as evolution to modern defenses 

Post#8 » by ATLHawksfan21 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:57 pm

Cleveland, three top defenders?

I'm confident that we have the better defenders with Millsap, Thabo, Carroll and Bazemore leading the way. Teague, Schroder and Horford are pretty damn good too.

Irving has proven that he cannot guard neither Teague nor Schroder. He can't be switched on to Kyle either since Kyle will run him to death. We saw what happened when Love tried to defend Millsap and Horford.
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Post#9 » by PandaKidd » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:35 pm

Lebron , who is the other elite 2 defenders?

Shumpert is good but hasn't been same since acl.

Mozgov great rim protection but hardly elite defender IMO.

Mark my words though , you do NOT want anything to do with CLE in the playoffs. Better hope someone beats up on them
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Post#10 » by PandaKidd » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:35 pm

If they played 7 game series CLE is overwhelming favorite , don't be delusional
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Re: Hawks offense as evolution to modern defenses 

Post#11 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:41 pm

:o

Back to the topic at hand...

The primary weakness that CLE has is their offense is still pretty stagnant. They hit threes, are unstoppable in transition and get a ton of points off of turnovers. But their half court offense is still just a variation of watching LBJ play hero. Or a simple clear out for James resulting in a drive and kick out pass to the wing.

Last night, GSW played a way more cohesive offensive game than CLE.

Cavaliers won because they had the best player in the world. Their defense has the size to switch through every screen.

Lebron's ability to guard any position on the floor is scary. Dude hasn't lost a playoff series in the Eastern Conference since 2010.

All their moves in the last 3 months carried great risk...and every one of them seems to be paying off handsomely.

Should we make it far enough to face them, it will be a huge test of our system/talent.
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Re: Hawks offense as evolution to modern defenses 

Post#12 » by ATLHawksfan21 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:29 am

This myth about Lebron guarding every position on the floor is getting out of hand. This is one of the biggest reasons why last year's pacers are far more capable of slowing us down than this years Cavs. Paul George is capable of guarding our PGs for the entire game while giving max effort the entire game. You will NEVER see Lebron do this. He may guard them for a possession here or there but nowhere close to the entire game. Lebron will guard our weakest offensive starter for the majority of the game. He's not going to run with Teague or Kyle.

The Pacers had success because they were able to put their stud PG on Teague and switch Hill on to Korver. Hill doesn't use as much energy on offense and was able to do a decent job of chasing Kyle. Lebron will not take George's role of guarding our PG and Kyrie isn't capable of chasing Korver around all night. This leaves Kyrie guarding Teague/Schroder and he cant do it.
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Re: 

Post#13 » by ATLHawksfan21 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:32 am

PandaKidd wrote:If they played 7 game series CLE is overwhelming favorite , don't be delusional



They will be big favorites in Vegas but not on the court. Cleveland does not want to play a healthy Hawks team.


Call me crazy all you want. It won't be the first time my delusional thoughts have come to fruition.
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Post#14 » by PandaKidd » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:46 am

Not delusional, but, i would take CLE , sorry.

Right now they are best team in the NBA. WE WIll need thabo back at full strength , and I think its not an easy series.

GSW are no joke and CLE DISMANTLED them last night
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Post#15 » by Hawk Eye » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:40 am

PandaKidd wrote:Not delusional, but, i would take CLE , sorry.

Right now they are best team in the NBA. WE WIll need thabo back at full strength , and I think its not an easy series.

GSW are no joke and CLE DISMANTLED them last night


Not to mention that GSW dismantled Toronto tonight (they put up 44 in ONE quarter lol) which makes that CLE win even more impressive.
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Re: Hawks offense as evolution to modern defenses 

Post#16 » by Rip2137 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:12 am

Come on guys. You can't play the "well they beat A and we lost to tem so they must be impressive". Every game is a new game in the NBA. Cleveland lost to Chicago and the Pacers. We lost to Milwalkee and Boston. Golden State got their backsides handed to them by Utah. It happens.

I have to disagree with Cleveland being the best team in the NBA though. I think Golden State still has that claim with us being a close second and Cleveland/Memphis being third.
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Re: Hawks offense as evolution to modern defenses 

Post#17 » by MaceCase » Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:08 am

So if the Hawks beat Golden State by 3 more points would that put them in Cleveland's stratosphere? Or is there just a serious case of short term memory on this board?
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Post#18 » by PandaKidd » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:11 am

Edge always goes to the best player on the planet.

I believe in the hawks, but I'm also a realist.

Right now CLE is the best team in the NBA and they have vastly superior TALENT.

Do not want go play them in a 7 game series.

Don't have a short term memory on how good Lbj is :)
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Post#19 » by ATLHawksfan21 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:59 pm

Lbj only has two titles in his career and those two teams were a lot better than this years Cavs team. Those teams also did not face an eastern team as good as this years Hawks team.

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Post#20 » by PandaKidd » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:04 pm

I think you guys are going on the first half cavs. Did you see LBJ Thursday night? He looks like the old LBJ who drives the lane and muscles his way to 42 POINTS against the top ranked defense in the league.....

KI had 20+ points.

Don't count love out despite his struggles.

Can't compare the heat teams to this team because we don't know yet. This cavs team has more talent than the first iteration of that heat team. This cavs team is BETTER than last years Heat team.

Whatever we can play what ifs all day. Fact is if this hawks team played CLE tomorrow in a 7 game series CLE would be overwhelming favorite. That's all I said.

That and they scare me.

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