Future of Hawks Basketball

[Geaux_Hawks]

As of yesterday's game where the team decided to go on hiatus for the game, there has been a lot of frustration and talks about just setting the roster on fire and saying adios to it. The question that remains is whether or not to rebuild or attempt to re-tool.

We're committed to 11 guys next year and our cap number is at about 53 million. Keep in mind that those numbers could go down since we have team options on Muscala and Scott. Tiago Splitter is an expiring we could probably use to take on an unwanted salary for picks or however we would like to use him(trade filler maybe). Also, the cap is going to sky rocket, opening up some more possibilities with free agents.

Whichever road management decides to go down, Milsaps, Teague, Horford, and KK would most likely be gone. Of course Horford is a free agent, but we still have Sap and Teague to try and extract some value from teams with. A good question to answer is would it be best to package those 2 together or do separate trades?

Another thing to consider is possible reclamation projects I.E Michael Beasley, Derrick Williams, Eric Gordon, Tyreke Evans, etc.. Just guys who are young, but could possibly turn it around with our help, and add some upside to our team either through a rebuild or re-tool.

In your own opinion, what would be the route you would like to go, and how would you do it?

[PandaKidd]

I think they have some actions to look at and the results will decide what path to go down.

Retool:
Horford walks, and they can sign someone to fill that role
-D12
-Whiteside
-Al Jefferson
-Drummond
-Noah
-Mozgov

Then you have to look at do they resign Bazemore at that point (highly unlikely). So you lose and replace your Center, but you lose your starting SF as well. Do they make that up with
-Barnes
-Parsons
-Batum
-Deng

Then we look at SG and think man, if we REALLY believe in moving Korver to the bench, thats another hole to fill. Or do they swap THJ and put Korver off the bench (highly unlikely IMO).
-Derozan
-Afflalo

Slim picking at SG TBH.

So, those are the possible FA acquisitions you can look at or dream about. So tons of moving pieces. Asking the Hawks to retool 3/5s of the starting 5 is a tall task for anyone. Looking at the last 3-4 off seasons, I dont see how they get ANY of those top tier FAs to come here. Maybe Barnes might be your best shot but youre going to offer him so much money that I think it makes it hard to upgrade another position.

Personally Id make a run at the C position and see if we can get any of those guys. Id love to see Whiteside or Mozgov here and or Barnes. Those would determine the next moves for me IMO. DS should be on the table too. I could live with trading Schroeder with a package if we could draft a PG or sign another PG to backup teague.

If Al walks and NO Free Agents are going to come here, then at that point I would move Millsap/Teague/Korver/Thabo for anything I could get. Draft picks, younger talent, whatever. be god awful for a year, play DS and see what we can do with him at the reigns , maybe trade him too.

[Geaux_Hawks]

I think they have some actions to look at and the results will decide what path to go down.

Retool:
Horford walks, and they can sign someone to fill that role
-D12
-Whiteside
-Al Jefferson
-Drummond
-Noah
-Mozgov

Then you have to look at do they resign Bazemore at that point (highly unlikely). So you lose and replace your Center, but you lose your starting SF as well. Do they make that up with
-Barnes
-Parsons
-Batum
-Deng

Then we look at SG and think man, if we REALLY believe in moving Korver to the bench, thats another hole to fill. Or do they swap THJ and put Korver off the bench (highly unlikely IMO).
-Derozan
-Afflalo

Slim picking at SG TBH.

So, those are the possible FA acquisitions you can look at or dream about. So tons of moving pieces. Asking the Hawks to retool 3/5s of the starting 5 is a tall task for anyone. Looking at the last 3-4 off seasons, I dont see how they get ANY of those top tier FAs to come here. Maybe Barnes might be your best shot but youre going to offer him so much money that I think it makes it hard to upgrade another position.

Personally Id make a run at the C position and see if we can get any of those guys. Id love to see Whiteside or Mozgov here and or Barnes. Those would determine the next moves for me IMO. DS should be on the table too. I could live with trading Schroeder with a package if we could draft a PG or sign another PG to backup teague.

If Al walks and NO Free Agents are going to come here, then at that point I would move Millsap/Teague/Korver/Thabo for anything I could get. Draft picks, younger talent, whatever. be god awful for a year, play DS and see what we can do with him at the reigns , maybe trade him too.

As I was making this thread, Barnes kept coming up in every situation. Even in a rebuild type situation, I was willing to go after Barnes similar to what we did with Joe Johnson. JJ was an up and coming young guy who was being out shined by Nash, Marion, and Amare. As you know, Barnes is seeing the same thing.

If the option is to try and re-tool, maybe we can add Whiteside as well. Maybe Mozgov would be a better get. I would look to try and add John Henson if we did go after Mozgov. We sorely lack in the shot blocking department, and Henson is being held back in Milwaukee.

That would essentially be our free agency, so now to move DS. First and foremost, what kind of value do you think he would garner? Is the Philly offer about what we should look for again, or shoot for something better? This will probably be determined after the playoffs are over.

Looking at your post, the rebuild route has obvious moves involved. Can't argue with any of it. During the process of those trades though, do we look to bring some of those guys I mentioned(or others) just in hopes of making them better in our system? Same goes for the re-tool route as well.

[MaceCase]

If you're retooling then you have to do what Ferry did, pitch Durant and if he spurns us only spend on guys on value contracts i.e. don't throw a max or near max around just to throw one. Rinse and repeat in 2017 where the entire roster is unguaranteed, you have a skyrocketed cap and the likes of Curry, Westbrook, Blake, Giannis, Hayward, Gallinari, Ibaka, Mirotic, Gobert, McCollum etc potentially hitting the market. Free agent landscape gets hazy from there with a potential lockout but the Hawks are in the perfect position to entirely remake their roster in less than 2 seasons.

[Jamaaliver]

If you're retooling then you have to do what Ferry did, pitch Durant and if he spurns us only spend on guys on value contracts i.e. don't throw a max or near max around just to throw one. Rinse and repeat in 2017 where the entire roster is unguaranteed, you have a skyrocketed cap and the likes of Curry, Westbrook, Blake, Giannis, Hayward, Gallinari, Ibaka, Mirotic, Gobert, McCollum etc potentially hitting the market. Free agent landscape gets hazy from there with a potential lockout but the Hawks are in the perfect position to entirely remake their roster in less than 2 seasons.

Every bit of this...is reasonable and wise.


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[Geaux_Hawks]

Just an idea:

If we just try to re-tool, I say a 3-way trade with Sap to OKC for Kanter; Ibaka to Minnesota for Levine, Shabazz, and Bjelica(Floor spacer) coming our way.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hbz896o

Details can be worked out.

At that point, I would call Milwaukee about getting John Henson for Dennis.

Probably could then sign Allen Crabbe and a backup center like Mozgov, Mahinmi, or if Noah takes a discount maybe(I'm dreaming of course).

Draft Diamond Stone, who can be a physical rebounder with rim protection ability.

Roster would look like:

PG-Teague/Vet PG
SG-Levine/KK/THJ
SF-Crabbe/Thabo
PF-Henson/Bjelica
C-Kanter/Mozgov/Stone

We're hoping Levine takes a big step as a scorer/playmaker, while Kanter gives us an offensive threat on the low block. Teague will continue to give us the penetration from the PG position. Crabbe is great shooter, and a decent enough defender as well. Now on the defensive end, we get our much needed shot blocker in the starting lineup.

What may come to a surprise is that we now have a decent enough bench to hopefully sustain after most of the starters are out. KK and Bjelica gives us plenty of space. Mozgov keeps our defensive presence alive and crashes the boards. Thabo is still on the wings as a defensive stopper. THJ can give us solid minutes as well, and who knows, possibly could step into a 6MOY candidacy.

[Jamaaliver]

Just an idea:

If we just try to re-tool, I say a 3-way trade with Sap to OKC for Kanter; Ibaka to Minnesota for Levine, Shabazz, and Bjelica(Floor spacer) coming our way.

Not a bad place to start a remodel. Though I am not sure Ibaka gets you Levine and Shabazz...especially since Minny already has Dieng and KAT. Younger, cheaper front court options.



Also...DS is worth more than just John Henson. But I'd do Dennis Schröder for Dario Saric in a heartbeat...if Philly is still interested.

Teague (and picks?) for Oladipo is also worth pursuing...if ORL is still interested.



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[DirtybirdGA]

This will be pinned about Monday.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Just an idea:

If we just try to re-tool, I say a 3-way trade with Sap to OKC for Kanter; Ibaka to Minnesota for Levine, Shabazz, and Bjelica(Floor spacer) coming our way.

Not a bad place to start a remodel. Though I am not sure Ibaka gets you Levine and Shabazz...especially since Minny already has Dieng and KAT. Younger, cheaper front court options.



Also...DS is worth more than just John Henson. But I'd do Dennis Schröder for Dario Saric in a heartbeat...if Philly is still interested.

Teague (and picks?) for Oladipo is also worth pursuing...if ORL is still interested.



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Yeah. I re-did the trade, but didn't change my post to reflect the subtraction of Shabazz. I would suspect Thibs would take him just to have a veteran presence in the lineup. Dieng can still get minutes off the bench.

I don't care what we get for Dennis, as long as we could get Henson as well. Henson is one of those guys I think needs a real chance to showcase himself like Whiteside is doing. We would need an athletic rim protector next to Kanter as well.

[Jamaaliver]

Henson is one of those guys I think needs a real chance to showcase himself like Whiteside is doing. We would need an athletic rim protector next to Kanter as well.

Agreed. Henson does seem like he could blossom in the right situation. (Whether that's under Bud's tutelage is up for debate.)

Question: Is Ibaka not enough of an athletic shot-blocker to bring here and play alongside Kanter?





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[King Ken]

I have 0 interest in letting Horford walk. Have low interest in trading Sap or Teague and Dennis. My interest is focus on trying to get a SF via trade and bring these guys back. Now I am open to trading every one on the team for the RIGHT value. But that's about it.

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[King Ken]

Just an idea:

If we just try to re-tool, I say a 3-way trade with Sap to OKC for Kanter; Ibaka to Minnesota for Levine, Shabazz, and Bjelica(Floor spacer) coming our way.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hbz896o

Details can be worked out.

At that point, I would call Milwaukee about getting John Henson for Dennis.

Probably could then sign Allen Crabbe and a backup center like Mozgov, Mahinmi, or if Noah takes a discount maybe(I'm dreaming of course).

Draft Diamond Stone, who can be a physical rebounder with rim protection ability.

Roster would look like:

PG-Teague/Vet PG
SG-Levine/KK/THJ
SF-Crabbe/Thabo
PF-Henson/Bjelica
C-Kanter/Mozgov/Stone

We're hoping Levine takes a big step as a scorer/playmaker, while Kanter gives us an offensive threat on the low block. Teague will continue to give us the penetration from the PG position. Crabbe is great shooter, and a decent enough defender as well. Now on the defensive end, we get our much needed shot blocker in the starting lineup.

What may come to a surprise is that we now have a decent enough bench to hopefully sustain after most of the starters are out. KK and Bjelica gives us plenty of space. Mozgov keeps our defensive presence alive and crashes the boards. Thabo is still on the wings as a defensive stopper. THJ can give us solid minutes as well, and who knows, possibly could step into a 6MOY candidacy.

Man, leave the GM job to Bud and Wilcox. You can't possibly watch the NBA and think this was a good idea man? Kanter and Hanson starting? Trading Millsap who's a top 20 player for mediocre pieces. Naw son. Quit posting. You trying to bring back the early 2000s Hawks back.

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[King Ken]

Just an idea:

If we just try to re-tool, I say a 3-way trade with Sap to OKC for Kanter; Ibaka to Minnesota for Levine, Shabazz, and Bjelica(Floor spacer) coming our way.

Not a bad place to start a remodel. Though I am not sure Ibaka gets you Levine and Shabazz...especially since Minny already has Dieng and KAT. Younger, cheaper front court options.



Also...DS is worth more than just John Henson. But I'd do Dennis Schröder for Dario Saric in a heartbeat...if Philly is still interested.

Teague (and picks?) for Oladipo is also worth pursuing...if ORL is still interested.



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God damn, this is horrible! Make it stop! You all got to be the most reactionary fans of all time.

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[PandaKidd]

I have 0 interest in letting Horford walk. Have low interest in trading Sap or Teague and Dennis. My interest is focus on trying to get a SF via trade and bring these guys back. Now I am open to trading every one on the team for the RIGHT value. But that's about it.

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if you wont trade those players, who are you trading to bring in a SF?

Korver/Thabo/Muscala/Scott i mean what starting caliber SF are you getting in trade?

[PandaKidd]

Just an idea:

If we just try to re-tool, I say a 3-way trade with Sap to OKC for Kanter; Ibaka to Minnesota for Levine, Shabazz, and Bjelica(Floor spacer) coming our way.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hbz896o

Details can be worked out.

At that point, I would call Milwaukee about getting John Henson for Dennis.

Probably could then sign Allen Crabbe and a backup center like Mozgov, Mahinmi, or if Noah takes a discount maybe(I'm dreaming of course).

Draft Diamond Stone, who can be a physical rebounder with rim protection ability.

Roster would look like:

PG-Teague/Vet PG
SG-Levine/KK/THJ
SF-Crabbe/Thabo
PF-Henson/Bjelica
C-Kanter/Mozgov/Stone

We're hoping Levine takes a big step as a scorer/playmaker, while Kanter gives us an offensive threat on the low block. Teague will continue to give us the penetration from the PG position. Crabbe is great shooter, and a decent enough defender as well. Now on the defensive end, we get our much needed shot blocker in the starting lineup.

What may come to a surprise is that we now have a decent enough bench to hopefully sustain after most of the starters are out. KK and Bjelica gives us plenty of space. Mozgov keeps our defensive presence alive and crashes the boards. Thabo is still on the wings as a defensive stopper. THJ can give us solid minutes as well, and who knows, possibly could step into a 6MOY candidacy.

Man, leave the GM job to Bud and Wilcox. You can't possibly watch the NBA and think this was a good idea man? Kanter and Hanson starting? Trading Millsap who's a top 20 player for mediocre pieces. Naw son. Quit posting. You trying to bring back the early 2000s Hawks back.

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Millsap is NOT a top 20 player.

[PandaKidd]

Just an idea:

If we just try to re-tool, I say a 3-way trade with Sap to OKC for Kanter; Ibaka to Minnesota for Levine, Shabazz, and Bjelica(Floor spacer) coming our way.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hbz896o

Details can be worked out.

At that point, I would call Milwaukee about getting John Henson for Dennis.

Probably could then sign Allen Crabbe and a backup center like Mozgov, Mahinmi, or if Noah takes a discount maybe(I'm dreaming of course).

Draft Diamond Stone, who can be a physical rebounder with rim protection ability.

Roster would look like:

PG-Teague/Vet PG
SG-Levine/KK/THJ
SF-Crabbe/Thabo
PF-Henson/Bjelica
C-Kanter/Mozgov/Stone

We're hoping Levine takes a big step as a scorer/playmaker, while Kanter gives us an offensive threat on the low block. Teague will continue to give us the penetration from the PG position. Crabbe is great shooter, and a decent enough defender as well. Now on the defensive end, we get our much needed shot blocker in the starting lineup.

What may come to a surprise is that we now have a decent enough bench to hopefully sustain after most of the starters are out. KK and Bjelica gives us plenty of space. Mozgov keeps our defensive presence alive and crashes the boards. Thabo is still on the wings as a defensive stopper. THJ can give us solid minutes as well, and who knows, possibly could step into a 6MOY candidacy.

Looking at that trade, no way OKC gives up its starting front court for Millsap (31) and Splitter who is super hurt ALL THE TIME. Just no way IMO.

[ATL Boy]

Just an idea:

If we just try to re-tool, I say a 3-way trade with Sap to OKC for Kanter; Ibaka to Minnesota for Levine, Shabazz, and Bjelica(Floor spacer) coming our way.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hbz896o

Details can be worked out.

At that point, I would call Milwaukee about getting John Henson for Dennis.

Probably could then sign Allen Crabbe and a backup center like Mozgov, Mahinmi, or if Noah takes a discount maybe(I'm dreaming of course).

Draft Diamond Stone, who can be a physical rebounder with rim protection ability.

Roster would look like:

PG-Teague/Vet PG
SG-Levine/KK/THJ
SF-Crabbe/Thabo
PF-Henson/Bjelica
C-Kanter/Mozgov/Stone

We're hoping Levine takes a big step as a scorer/playmaker, while Kanter gives us an offensive threat on the low block. Teague will continue to give us the penetration from the PG position. Crabbe is great shooter, and a decent enough defender as well. Now on the defensive end, we get our much needed shot blocker in the starting lineup.

What may come to a surprise is that we now have a decent enough bench to hopefully sustain after most of the starters are out. KK and Bjelica gives us plenty of space. Mozgov keeps our defensive presence alive and crashes the boards. Thabo is still on the wings as a defensive stopper. THJ can give us solid minutes as well, and who knows, possibly could step into a 6MOY candidacy.

Man, leave the GM job to Bud and Wilcox. You can't possibly watch the NBA and think this was a good idea man? Kanter and Hanson starting? Trading Millsap who's a top 20 player for mediocre pieces. Naw son. Quit posting. You trying to bring back the early 2000s Hawks back.

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You can post your opinion on here, there's nothing wrong with that, but please don't tell another poster to stop posting, everyone's opinion in welcome.


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[Jamaaliver]

I want to re-iterate, I am NOT in favor blowing this whole thing up. We just need to use our assets more wisely. (Draft picks, expiring vets).

The last two rebuilding projects took years to recover from and only resulted in us getting back on the treadmill after years of misery.

Look at the Spurs. They've featured veteran, playoff-caliber teams for most of the last 20+ years. But they're Championship Caliber teams were always sparked by the arrival of young, top talents. Tim Duncan in '97 (obviously).

But, also notably, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili in 2001/2002. And Kawhi Leonard in 2011. All of these young players came to a veteran team good enough to make the playoffs, but in need of a spark/catalyst to overcome other great teams and win it all. Each of these young players, when added to a veteran starting lineup, would win a title within their first three years.

Parker and Kawhi, despite not being selected in the lottery, each won Finals MVP awards as well.

Playing lead roles on veteran laden teams. They benefitted from a steady, calming, structured, veteran locker room. This is what we need to embrace. A solid team of hard-working vets, but with a steady flow of young talent to augment the limitations of the older players.

If we featured this same starting five we currently do, but had guys like Rudy Gobert, Rodney Hood, Bobby Portis on the bench...we'd be in a much more palatable situation.

We'd have assets to pursue top guys like Jimmy Butler.
We'd have low-cost replacements for aging starters like Horford and Korver.
We'd have legitimate depth to compete in the interim and attract top players in Free Agency.


Ultimately, I am in favor of keeping the locker room full of unselfish vets, but focused on strategically acquiring younger players through draft and trade.

[PandaKidd]

Yeah but you cant really get younger talent through trade without moving your vets. We arent in the position the Spurs were in, and FYI the Spurs were the worst team in the league thats how they got Duncan. Youre advocating against tanking and blowing it up.

Im sorry, we dont have HOF talent on this roster. We dont even have DOMINANT people at their position. We have VERY GOOD players.

Again our ONLY trade pieces really are Millsap and DS. thats it. Show me some way you acquire better talent without "tanking" and im all ears.

[Geaux_Hawks]

I want to re-iterate, I am NOT in favor blowing this whole thing up. We just need to use our assets more wisely. (Draft picks, expiring vets).

The last two rebuilding projects took years to recover from and only resulted in us getting back on the treadmill after years of misery.

Look at the Spurs. They've featured veteran, playoff-caliber teams for most of the last 20+ years. But they're Championship Caliber teams were always sparked by the arrival of young, top talents. Tim Duncan in '97 (obviously).

But, also notably, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili in 2001/2002. And Kawhi Leonard in 2011. All of these young players came to a veteran team good enough to make the playoffs, but in need of a spark/catalyst to overcome other great teams and win it all. Each of these young players, when added to a veteran starting lineup, would win a title within their first three years.

Parker and Kawhi, despite not being selected in the lottery, each won Finals MVP awards as well.

Playing lead roles on veteran laden teams. They benefitted from a steady, calming, structured, veteran locker room. This is what we need to embrace. A solid team of hard-working vets, but with a steady flow of young talent to augment the limitations of the older players.

If we featured this same starting five we currently do, but had guys like Rudy Gobert, Rodney Hood, Bobby Portis on the bench...we'd be in a much more palatable situation.

We'd have assets to pursue top guys like Jimmy Butler.
We'd have low-cost replacements for aging starters like Horford and Korver.
We'd have legitimate depth to compete in the interim and attract top players in Free Agency.


Ultimately, I am in favor of keeping the locker room full of unselfish vets, but focused on strategically acquiring younger players through draft and trade.

The thing about the Spurs is that when they always kept assets stockpiled and when they cashed in on them, they got value most of the time. They alsopicked up guys nobody really wanted or thought was garbage..