2015-16 Atlanta Hawks Offseason Thread

[Jamaaliver]

Ugggh...I really don't want us to pay Kent Bazemore $12 million a year.

He plays so hard...but his skills are limited offensively.


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[atlantabbq99]

Who knows how good Barnes will be outside of GSW and who knows how good he will be with Budz coaching him up. Its all speculation. but if the Hawks can get a SF that puts up 17ppg, 7rpg, .400 from three, and defense better than DeMarre Carroll... is that worth $18-20 million per?

[PandaKidd]

Sigh

Lots of you guys argue and complain and are negative but offer no opinions, it's like you're scared of someone arguing with you.

I meant THROWOUT SALARY, who do you like better, baze or Barnes

[Jamaaliver]

Sigh

THROW OUT SALARY, who do you like better, baze or Barnes

Moe Harkless, Gordon Hayward, Evan Fournier. I'd rather pursue any of these players than overpay Harrison or Baze.



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[PandaKidd]

Sigh

THROW OUT SALARY, who do you like better, baze or Barnes

Moe Harkless, Gordon Hayward, Evan Fournier. I'd rather pursue any of these players than overpay Harrison or Baze.



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OH LOOK, AN ANSWER!

I was just seeing where people felt in terms of who you would want as a starting SF. Whether it be Barnes or Baze, just on talent alone.

[Jamaaliver]

OH LOOK, AN ANSWER!

I was just seeing where people felt in terms of who you would want as a starting SF. Whether it be Barnes or Baze, just on talent alone.

Baze would be great next to a top scoring wing player, like James Harden, Carmelo or LeBron.

Harrison is a solid, all-around talent. Clearly the better player

But both have flaws. Baze can't dribble and (based on size) is ideally suited for SG. Harrison has a ton of questions regarding his ability to be a top option on a contender.

I'd rather go a low-cost alternative route than overpay either. (Rodney Hood or Justin Anderson would be better options.)

Moe Harkless seems like a guy obtainable for less than $10 million.

[MaceCase]

I think the answer has been rather clear from most, it's been "anyone but Barnes" but I guess there was a need to create the strawman of Barnes vs Bazemore, you know, because opinions and stuff.

[jayu70]

Sigh

THROW OUT SALARY, who do you like better, baze or Barnes

Moe Harkless, Gordon Hayward, Evan Fournier. I'd rather pursue any of these players than overpay Harrison or Baze.



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How much do you think Moe will get? He finished the season strong - I think he'll be in the same boat as Baze. Some team will overpay them.
Gordon Hayward is not a free agent this season, he has a player option next season which he more than likely will opt out of. So he will be looking for a huge payday from the $107 million cap in 2017 (by then he'll be in the 30% bracket $32 mil per)
Evan Fournier is also looking for a max deal.

What they have all have over Baze is size and more natural scoring abilities.

ALL these players WILL be overpayed.

[Geaux_Hawks]

So I was looking through the Blazers Forums for some insight on Mason Plumlee, and I found this about Cole Aldrich:

the first thing to keep in mind is that Aldrich only averaged 13.3 minutes; only 800 minutes total. So, there could certainly be some sample size issues in the comparison

anyway, per36, Aldrich averaged 15 points (on 60% shooting), 13 rebounds, and 3 blocks. Even allowing for sample-size noise, those are impressive numbers. He had a 19.6% rebound rate, and an 11.9% offensive rebound rate. More impressive numbers.

and we saw him in the playoffs. It sure seemed to me that when the Clippers went from Deandre Jordan to Aldrich in their rotation, they didn't lose much at all in rebounding, defense, or big-man intimidation.

but for me, the most impressive set of numbers are his defensive numbers. Now, defensive numbers should all be viewed a little skeptically. There can be a lot of noise due to team defense, rotations, and sample size. But Aldrich's defensive numbers are quite good. 3.1 blocks per36 is a lot. Aldrich had a block rate of 6.7% (bbref). Because of low minutes, he wasn't ranked in that category, but compare him to the top-5:

Block Pct
1. Hassan Whiteside ▪ MIA 9.7
2. Bismack Biyombo ▪ TOR 6.1
3. Rudy Gobert ▪ UTA 5.9
4. DeAndre Jordan ▪ LAC 5.4
5. Kristaps Porzingis ▪ NYK 5.0

2. Cole Aldrich LAC 6.7

it's more then just blocks though. Aldrich played for the #5 team in the NBA in defensive rating; Clips had a 103.8 rating. Aldrich's defensive rating was 94 (Hassan Witeside led the NBA with a 94.5 mark). I can't recall a player posing nearly a 10 point differential between his mark and his team's, especially when the team starting point was under 105. Aldrich's defensive box plus/minus was +5.8. That's another impressive number

winshares can be a bit tricky. Because of low minutes, Aldrich's winshare marks were rather low as there is a cumulative impact. But Aldrich's winshare/48 mark was .209. For comparison, no Blazer was over .200 and only one, Ed Davis, was above .165. Anyway, proportioning Aldrich's defensive winshares by total winshares and applying that to his /48 number yields a defensive winshare/48 mark of .119. Only 3 Blazers, Davis, Lillard, & Plumlee had total winshare/48 marks better the Aldrich's defensive mark

and there's DRPM (defensive real plus/minus). Among NBA C's these are the top-5 DRPM marks this season:

1 Andrew Bogut 5.53
2 Tim Duncan 5.42
3 Cole Aldrich 4.61
4 Ian Mahinmi 4.14
5 DeAndre Jordan 4.11

and here is the top-5 for all 462 NBA players tracked:

1 Andrew Bogut, C 5.53
2 Tim Duncan, C 5.42
3 Draymond Green, PF 4.94
4 Cole Aldrich, C 4.61
5 Ian Mahinmi, C 4.14

again, there is that sample size issue. But when every single defensive measure has Aldrich performing that well, you have to think there's some solid defense there.

As the poster suggested, sample size may be an issue with this, but if we really wanted to find a guy with some size, and shot blocking ability that can defend, then maybe we need to take a look at Cole Aldrich because though numbers are impressive. Toronto stumbled upon something special in Biyombo, maybe we can do the same with Cole.

[PandaKidd]

I think the answer has been rather clear from most, it's been "anyone but Barnes" but I guess there was a need to create the strawman of Barnes vs Bazemore, you know, because opinions and stuff.

I just want to see how many posts it takes before you commit to an answer

No strawman, i was asking if you had to choose your starting SF who would you rather have, Bazemore or Barnes, its a really simple question, i was interested in a simple reply.

Some people just cant do it i guess

[PandaKidd]

So I was looking through the Blazers Forums for some insight on Mason Plumlee, and I found this about Cole Aldrich:

the first thing to keep in mind is that Aldrich only averaged 13.3 minutes; only 800 minutes total. So, there could certainly be some sample size issues in the comparison

anyway, per36, Aldrich averaged 15 points (on 60% shooting), 13 rebounds, and 3 blocks. Even allowing for sample-size noise, those are impressive numbers. He had a 19.6% rebound rate, and an 11.9% offensive rebound rate. More impressive numbers.

and we saw him in the playoffs. It sure seemed to me that when the Clippers went from Deandre Jordan to Aldrich in their rotation, they didn't lose much at all in rebounding, defense, or big-man intimidation.

but for me, the most impressive set of numbers are his defensive numbers. Now, defensive numbers should all be viewed a little skeptically. There can be a lot of noise due to team defense, rotations, and sample size. But Aldrich's defensive numbers are quite good. 3.1 blocks per36 is a lot. Aldrich had a block rate of 6.7% (bbref). Because of low minutes, he wasn't ranked in that category, but compare him to the top-5:

Block Pct
1. Hassan Whiteside ▪ MIA 9.7
2. Bismack Biyombo ▪ TOR 6.1
3. Rudy Gobert ▪ UTA 5.9
4. DeAndre Jordan ▪ LAC 5.4
5. Kristaps Porzingis ▪ NYK 5.0

2. Cole Aldrich LAC 6.7

it's more then just blocks though. Aldrich played for the #5 team in the NBA in defensive rating; Clips had a 103.8 rating. Aldrich's defensive rating was 94 (Hassan Witeside led the NBA with a 94.5 mark). I can't recall a player posing nearly a 10 point differential between his mark and his team's, especially when the team starting point was under 105. Aldrich's defensive box plus/minus was +5.8. That's another impressive number

winshares can be a bit tricky. Because of low minutes, Aldrich's winshare marks were rather low as there is a cumulative impact. But Aldrich's winshare/48 mark was .209. For comparison, no Blazer was over .200 and only one, Ed Davis, was above .165. Anyway, proportioning Aldrich's defensive winshares by total winshares and applying that to his /48 number yields a defensive winshare/48 mark of .119. Only 3 Blazers, Davis, Lillard, & Plumlee had total winshare/48 marks better the Aldrich's defensive mark

and there's DRPM (defensive real plus/minus). Among NBA C's these are the top-5 DRPM marks this season:

1 Andrew Bogut 5.53
2 Tim Duncan 5.42
3 Cole Aldrich 4.61
4 Ian Mahinmi 4.14
5 DeAndre Jordan 4.11

and here is the top-5 for all 462 NBA players tracked:

1 Andrew Bogut, C 5.53
2 Tim Duncan, C 5.42
3 Draymond Green, PF 4.94
4 Cole Aldrich, C 4.61
5 Ian Mahinmi, C 4.14

again, there is that sample size issue. But when every single defensive measure has Aldrich performing that well, you have to think there's some solid defense there.

As the poster suggested, sample size may be an issue with this, but if we really wanted to find a guy with some size, and shot blocking ability that can defend, then maybe we need to take a look at Cole Aldrich because though numbers are impressive. Toronto stumbled upon something special in Biyombo, maybe we can do the same with Cole.

FWIW i mentioned Aldrich like 2 years ago.

PAT ME ON THE BACK !

But I still contend that a big will be the last thing we need, we are going to attempt to resign Horford, Millsap isnt going anywhere, Splitter is coming back healthy , they wont have any need to sign any more bigs IMO, Just dont see it happening. They are going to have to replace Bazemore first, and that is going to take a lot of their focus

[Geaux_Hawks]

FWIW i mentioned Aldrich like 2 years ago.

PAT ME ON THE BACK !

But I still contend that a big will be the last thing we need, we are going to attempt to resign Horford, Millsap isnt going anywhere, Splitter is coming back healthy , they wont have any need to sign any more bigs IMO, Just dont see it happening. They are going to have to replace Bazemore first, and that is going to take a lot of their focus

Yeah. We never make these kind of moves anyway. I thought we would have went after him as well a couple of years ago.

How do you feel about Evan Forunier. You asked the question about who would you rather have between Barnes and Baze. I think I would rather have Barnes even if we considered salary. At least with Barnes, there's more of a chance that he becomes something special. Baze may just be what he is.

I ask about Fournier because I want to know who would you rather have between Barnes and Fournier? Fournier looks like an actual go to scorer compared to Barnes. Barnes may be a better defender, but Fournier isn't a bad one either. Both will look for max deals, even if they don't get it, so salary is again not a concern.

[Jamaaliver]

How do you feel about Evan Forunier.

...who would you rather have between Barnes and Fournier? Fournier looks like an actual go to scorer compared to Barnes. Both will look for max deals, so salary is not a concern.

Barnes, admittedly, has a higher ceiling. But he also seems more likely to become a bust .

Fournier has the higher ceiling floor, but will likely never be a bona fide star.

Fournier seems the more natural fit for our system. A Euro style player who moves beautifully without the ball and can shoot pretty well coming off of screens.

Not sure either is worth a max. But Evan is less of a gamble. I think he'd be like a young Joe Johnson on that first max contract. You sign him, get solid, All-Star production for a few years. but ultimately, he's not enough to change the course of your franchise.

[PandaKidd]

I kinda feel like Jamaal on that one. POsitives and negatives. I really like Barnes but its a huge gamble.

I think I would prob say the edge for me is Barnes because I like to gamble. I would hope our stellar player development would come into play and round him into a good starter for us

[MaceCase]

I think the answer has been rather clear from most, it's been "anyone but Barnes" but I guess there was a need to create the strawman of Barnes vs Bazemore, you know, because opinions and stuff.

I just want to see how many posts it takes before you commit to an answer

No strawman, i was asking if you had to choose your starting SF who would you rather have, Bazemore or Barnes, its a really simple question, i was interested in a simple reply.

Some people just cant do it i guess

I guess my very first post stating that the guy we don't want to pay 12 million to is better than the one who wants 23 million wasn't "simple" enough for some people to decipher .

Comprehension, some people just can't do it, I guess.

[Geaux_Hawks]

I kinda feel like Jamaal on that one. POsitives and negatives. I really like Barnes but its a huge gamble.

I think I would prob say the edge for me is Barnes because I like to gamble. I would hope our stellar player development would come into play and round him into a good starter for us

How do you feel about Evan Forunier.

...who would you rather have between Barnes and Fournier? Fournier looks like an actual go to scorer compared to Barnes. Both will look for max deals, so salary is not a concern.

Barnes, admittedly, has a higher ceiling. But he also seems more likely to become a bust .

Fournier has the higher ceiling floor, but will likely never be a bona fide star.

Fournier seems the more natural fit for our system. A Euro style player who moves beautifully without the ball and can shoot pretty well coming off of screens.

Not sure either is worth a max. But Evan is less of a gamble. I think he'd be like a young Joe Johnson on that first max contract. You sign him, get solid, All-Star production for a few years. but ultimately, he's not enough to change the course of your franchise.

FWIW, I don't think either is worth a max contract, but if we want either of them, we're probably going to end up paying max if not close to it.

As it's been mentioned, Fournier does indeed have the higher floor compared to Barnes having the higher ceiling. Buds has the ability to make either guy better as well, so it probably come down to what you want for your team.

For me I would rather have Fournier just because he does fit our system, and he already has shown the ability to create his own shot, move off the ball, shoots very well, defends at a decent rate, and play the point in a pinch if needed to because of his ability to handle the ball and create for others. Even if he tops out as a young Joe Johnson level player, that's pretty darn good to have.

Barnes on the other hand is all potential. He's got the athleticism, a decent stroke, and the versatility on both offense defense, but what else has he shown that really stands out? I would like to gamble myself, but Fournier's mere floor seems more promising than hoping Barnes develops an actual handle to use his athleticism.

[PandaKidd]

I think the answer has been rather clear from most, it's been "anyone but Barnes" but I guess there was a need to create the strawman of Barnes vs Bazemore, you know, because opinions and stuff.

I just want to see how many posts it takes before you commit to an answer

No strawman, i was asking if you had to choose your starting SF who would you rather have, Bazemore or Barnes, its a really simple question, i was interested in a simple reply.

Some people just cant do it i guess

I guess my very first post stating that the guy we don't want to pay 12 million to is better than the one who wants 23 million wasn't "simple" enough for some people to decipher .

Comprehension, some people just can't do it, I guess.

was that so hard? Thanks for your input buddy,

[ATL Boy]

Yahoo reporting that we're talking to Philly about a Teague for Noel deal. I'm really high in Noel, would love for this to happen.


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[Geaux_Hawks]

Yahoo reporting that we're talking to Philly about a Teague for Noel deal. I'm really high in Noel, would love for this to happen.


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Anyone think this signals a major re-tool? Could we see Milsaps moved as well? Do we think Noel is ready to play a big enough role which would allow us to go out and sign some other quality free agents instead of bringing Horford back?

[Jamaaliver]

Yahoo reporting that we're talking to Philly about a Teague for Noel deal. I'm really high in Noel, would love for this to happen.


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Anyone think this signals a major re-tool? Could we see Milsaps moved as well? Do we think Noel is ready to play a big enough role which would allow us to go out and sign some other quality free agents instead of bringing Horford back?

I hope Millsap is getting traded and Horford brought back.

Paul could net us a top asset in return.

Noel is nice, and a major piece moving forward...but he ain't ready to be the guy on a playoff team. Neither is Dennis for that matter. I hope we do end up with NN. But young talent like that should be eased into a winning culture. Not have all the pressure placed on him from the jump.


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