Reasons why Hawks should rebuild and restucture

[tbhawksfan1]

1) We currently have one above average and two average starters. Two of them are expensive well over 30 bigs. This trio is far from making us contenders and our roster is very weak after these three.

2) Our best player is expiring. He will be very expensive to re-sign and the contract will be for his mid-thirties (delining talent). Re-signing him is a big investment in getting slowly worse. Letting him walk will only get us cap that will equal much less than we can pay Sap. So less short-term talent.

3) Trading future assets to prop up this year won't work and will mortgage future opportunity. Lose a little less now to lose more later is a very bad strategy.

4) Our current future assets do not present us with a competitive advantage over many other teams i.e. they have better draft and young assets than we do.

5) Budcox hasn't done squat to make the Hawks better since Ferry got canned. We have gotten worse and the outlook is bad. We need a GM. Let Bud coach, but bring in someone to GM.

6) We have been waffleing since last off-season's huge mistakes. Goal was to re-sign Horf and bring in another decent FA. This would have improved the team. Instead they crapped out on Horf and handed out 2 big bad contracts to save face and to some extent this season. These moves salvaged a weak playoff run this year, but seriously set us back long-term.

7) Attendance is falling and if they think a rebuild would break the franchise, what will slidding out of the playoffs in the next two seasons with an old depleated roster do to attendance.

8) If we don't rebuild now, it will only delay the inevitable while putting us in a worse asset situation moving forward.

9) Budcox's floundering will end up taking a toll on coach Bud. We need to avoid that. He's one of our few competitive advantages.

10) Our present, future assets are not getting time in order to win a couple more games this season. We ain't gonna win, should at least be developping. Bud is good at development, but slow with young guys. Got to develop the young guys quickly, before their rook deals expire.

11) I'm sooooo tired of treadmill medicority with a team that only projects to maintain or decline over time

[tbhawksfan1]

12) coming to the trade boardn days before the deadline and not even a Hawks trade proposal...

[tbhawksfan1]

13) Didn't get in on Cousins trade. If we're win now mode, we could have beaten the Pels offer:

Bembry / Splitter / Scott / 2017 first / Minny first / Clev first

is as good or better than what Sac got....then swing DH for a wing

[MaceCase]

It's easy to get stuck in our own agendas and ignore the reality around us. There were a half dozen teams scratching their heads over Sacramento choosing the NOLA deal over their superior offers. It's not a failing of their front offices, it's the Kings continuing to be one of the worst run organizations in the league.

[dms269]

13) Didn't get in on Cousins trade. If we're win now mode, we could have beaten the Pels offer:

Bembry / Splitter / Scott / 2017 first / Minny first / Clev first

is as good or better than what Sac got....then swing DH for a wing

While I agree with you on many of your points, I can't get behind this one. While Cousins would be interesting, there is no way your proposed deal is better than what they got. Evans, Hield, Galloway, 2017 1st, and 2017 2nd is better. Hield is better than any piece we would be giivng up, I'd venture to say the 8th pick (as it stands) is significantly better than any piece we would be giving up as well.

I guess we could break it down like this:
Bembry>Hield
Evans=Evans (both expiring, those Evans can actually play)
Galloway>Scott (young point guard who has been decent v.s. headcase forward)
8th>20th
I don't think that Minny first and alate Cleveland one makes up the difference as both will at best be non-lotto.

[jayu70]

13) Didn't get in on Cousins trade. If we're win now mode, we could have beaten the Pels offer:

Bembry / Splitter / Scott / 2017 first / Minny first / Clev first

is as good or better than what Sac got....then swing DH for a wing

Sac would have to want Bembry. By all accounts Kings tried to move up in last year's draft to get Buddy but failed. So they wanted Buddy. As it currently stands, the 2017 pick is a lottery pick (Pels not in playoffs). Our pick is in the 20s. Our offer isn't better.

[tbhawksfan1]

We could easily sweeten the deal. Main point is, what are the Hawks doing to improve, short or long?

[Jamaaliver]

We could easily sweeten the deal. Main point is, what are the Hawks doing to improve, short or long?

tbhawksfan, I don't think you're going to convince these two of the need to rebuild. And while even I may not agree with everything you're proposing, the view that ATL needs to rebuild from scratch is growing. Bradley and Schultz at the AJC, Brad Rowland and Kris Willis at Peachtree Hoops and a number of talking heads have all suggested similar tactics. They all look at our long stretch of mediocrity and are unimpressed.

Team Success in the NBA is supposed to be cyclical. Emerging from bad, to competitive, to contender and then beginning again. The Hawks have been in the middle stage for a decade.

It should at least be considered. And word is Ressler is indeed considering all options...

Hawks principal owner Tony Ressler has been with the Hawks recently, at home and on the road, and there have been meetings about the direction of the franchise, according to a person familiar with the situation.

AJC in February

There are big-picture decisions that need to be made — but the biggest will be by majority owner Tony Ressler, not Budenholzer.

Ressler is the organization’s principal decision-maker and is evaluating the moves (and non-moves) of Budenholzer and general manager Wes Wilcox...improvement of the product may depend on his ability to improve the front office and bring in somebody with vision.

myAJC in February

There is no strong argument argument against blowing this up. The Hawks would be the East’s No. 5 seed today...Good teams get better in the second half of the season. Mediocre teams stay mediocre or get worse.

There is pressure on Budenholzer to make his offseason redesign work. There is pressure on ownership, which knows the product needs to get better. It’s just as clear the owners are not really sure how to get there.

myAJC in January

The Hawks had gotten old before our eyes...My issue is that the Hawks should have done more sooner. They should have done as the Braves did — rip it up and start again.

MyAJC in January

For as much as the Hawks have changed — they haven’t changed all that much from last season. They’re not nearly bad but not quite good.

MyAJC in February

[ATL Boy]

Word on the street is that the Kings had some offers which could have been deemed better, but they were so infatuated with Buddy Hield that they took NO's offer as a result.

Can't help but feel bad for Sacramento's fans. But it's what Vivek wanted, and what he got.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[dms269]

We could easily sweeten the deal. Main point is, what are the Hawks doing to improve, short or long?

tbhawksfan, I don't think you're going to convince these two of the need to rebuild. And while even I may not agree with everything you're proposing, the view that ATL needs to rebuild from scratch is growing. Bradley and Schultz at the AJC, Brad Rowland and Kris Willis at Peachtree Hoops and a number of talking heads have all suggested similar tactics. They all look at our long stretch of mediocrity and are unimpressed.

Team Success in the NBA is supposed to be cyclical. Emerging from bad, to competitive, to contender and then beginning again. The Hawks have been in the middle stage for a decade.

It should at least be considered. And word is Ressler is indeed considering all options:

There’s a growing feeling that Millsap wants to re-up here for a not-exorbitant price...If he re-signs for three years and he’s still their best player in 2020, this won’t be much of a team.

For as much as the Hawks have changed — they haven’t changed all that much from last season. They’re not nearly bad but not quite good.

MyAJC

There are big-picture decisions that need to be made — but the biggest will be by majority owner Tony Ressler, not Budenholzer.

Ressler is the organization’s principal decision-maker and is evaluating the moves (and non-moves) of Budenholzer and general manager Wes Wilcox...improvement of the product may depend on his ability to improve the front office and bring in somebody with vision.

Here[/quote]

I agree we need to rebuild. I saw blow it up and try again.

My point was an offer of Brembry and 3 late firsts is not better than Hield and a nice first.

[Jamaaliver]

I agree we need to rebuild. I say blow it up and try again.

My point was an offer of Brembry and 3 late firsts is not better than Hield and a nice first.

Understood.

And don't think that I was including you as one of the 2 who can't be convinced.

There's a small, loyal group of apologists who defend (almost) everything this wacky organization does.

You've always been a fair, open-minded individual. Even when we've bumped heads.

Others have been more...hostile. Claiming an 'agenda' whenever someone has an ulterior line of thinking.


PS I also agree that we didn't have the assets to make a strong offer for Boogie. Which, I think, is part of the issue. We've thrown away guys like Bebe and Tavares, allowed Smoove and Horford to walk away. Whiffed on guys like Adreian. And now we have no desirable assets to pursue any top players in trade.

[tbhawksfan1]

We could easily sweeten the deal. Main point is, what are the Hawks doing to improve, short or long?

tbhawksfan, I don't think you're going to convince these two of the need to rebuild. And while even I may not agree with everything you're proposing, the view that ATL needs to rebuild from scratch is growing. Bradley and Schultz at the AJC, Brad Rowland and Kris Willis at Peachtree Hoops and a number of talking heads have all suggested similar tactics. They all look at our long stretch of mediocrity and are unimpressed.

Team Success in the NBA is supposed to be cyclical. Emerging from bad, to competitive, to contender and then beginning again. The Hawks have been in the middle stage for a decade.

It should at least be considered. And word is Ressler is indeed considering all options...

Hawks principal owner Tony Ressler has been with the Hawks recently, at home and on the road, and there have been meetings about the direction of the franchise, according to a person familiar with the situation.

AJC in February

There are big-picture decisions that need to be made — but the biggest will be by majority owner Tony Ressler, not Budenholzer.

Ressler is the organization’s principal decision-maker and is evaluating the moves (and non-moves) of Budenholzer and general manager Wes Wilcox...improvement of the product may depend on his ability to improve the front office and bring in somebody with vision.

myAJC in February

There is no strong argument argument against blowing this up. The Hawks would be the East’s No. 5 seed today...Good teams get better in the second half of the season. Mediocre teams stay mediocre or get worse.

There is pressure on Budenholzer to make his offseason redesign work. There is pressure on ownership, which knows the product needs to get better. It’s just as clear the owners are not really sure how to get there.

myAJC in January

The Hawks had gotten old before our eyes...My issue is that the Hawks should have done more sooner. They should have done as the Braves did — rip it up and start again.

MyAJC in January

For as much as the Hawks have changed — they haven’t changed all that much from last season. They’re not nearly bad but not quite good.

MyAJC in February

Thanks for the quotes. If they actually are going to see the inevitable and set things in motion, there may be hope

[MaceCase]

Claiming an 'agenda' whenever someone has an ulterior line of thinking.

The correct word here would be "alternative". Perhaps the Freudian slip was "ulterior" which, of course, precisely demonstrates the existence of a hidden motivation.....which would be the agenda that always gets pointed out.

[Jamaaliver]

Claiming an 'agenda' whenever someone has an ulterior line of thinking.

The correct word here would be "alternative". Perhaps the Freudian slip was "ulterior" which, of course, precisely demonstrates the existence of a hidden motivation.....which would be the agenda that always gets pointed out.

yes. there are indeed multiple meanings for the word. All are applicable:

ul·te·ri·or -- /əlˈtirēər/

existing beyond what is obvious or admitted

beyond what is immediate or present; coming in the future....coming at a subsequent time or stage


I think ultimately, ownership must decide if the level of success the franchise has achieved the last decade is what they envision for the next decade. Thinking beyond only what is immediate and focusing on future seasons. Keeping Millsap is clearly a move for the present. But it doesn't bode well for future seasons.

I just want to root for a true, perennial contender. Not the second rate organization we've become. If that's an agenda...then, so be it.

[tbhawksfan1]

Don't let the ol "agenda" non argument distract. Attacking the messenger instead of adressing the argument.

Some of us want the Hawks to do what it takes to COMPETE, some are just happy to weakly make the playoffs and cheer for their home boy.

Being a contender requires a plan, a plan that can't work if you're investing in a losing short-term. That's why Bud"s recent statements are so ambiguous...we're building for the short and long, you got to think about both teams...blah, blah.

[Jamaaliver]

Don't let the ol "agenda" non argument distract. Attacking the messenger instead of adressing the argument.

Some of us want the Hawks to do what it takes to COMPETE, some are just happy to weakly make the playoffs and cheer for their home boy.

Being a contender requires a plan, a plan that can't work if you're investing in a losing short-term. That's why Bud"s recent statements are so ambiguous...we're building for the short and long, you got to think about both teams...blah, blah.

Yeah. Focusing on the short term is only a feasible approach if you're actually contending in the short term. We're 23-22 since that 9-2 start.

Literally most of the season, we're just a tick above a .500 team.

Since the end of the 7 game win streak in December...we're 10-8.

Just a tick above a .500 team.

We're barely competitive in the short-term...so why are we so focused on preserving this?

[tbhawksfan1]

13) Didn't get in on Cousins trade. If we're win now mode, we could have beaten the Pels offer:

Bembry / Splitter / Scott / 2017 first / Minny first / Clev first

is as good or better than what Sac got....then swing DH for a wing

While I agree with you on many of your points, I can't get behind this one. While Cousins would be interesting, there is no way your proposed deal is better than what they got. Evans, Hield, Galloway, 2017 1st, and 2017 2nd is better. Hield is better than any piece we would be giivng up, I'd venture to say the 8th pick (as it stands) is significantly better than any piece we would be giving up as well.

I guess we could break it down like this:
Bembry>Hield
Evans=Evans (both expiring, those Evans can actually play)
Galloway>Scott (young point guard who has been decent v.s. headcase forward)
8th>20th
I don't think that Minny first and alate Cleveland one makes up the difference as both will at best be non-lotto.

According to the Sac story, there was a timing and communication issue. They didn't even take what was considered to be the best offer. Maybe if we'd offered a deal before NO...right place right time...

I don't think getting Cousin's would have worked for us. Cousins and somebody, kinda somebody and 12 nobodies isn't going to win anything; just become SAC East

Hawks are either going to rebuild or become one of the most boring / irrelevant teams in the league. We're not far as it is.

Next years team will likely earily resemble the team the season prior to BK's tanking decision. Actually we're already there; one or two actual players, and an accumulation of band-aids or non NBA caliber guys filling out the roster

[tbhawksfan1]

14) Hawks players come back from break / deadline demoralized by the lack of improvement and knowledge that they are not talented enough and start losing BAD

[Robo_Claw]

Don't let the ol "agenda" non argument distract. Attacking the messenger instead of adressing the argument.

Some of us want the Hawks to do what it takes to COMPETE, some are just happy to weakly make the playoffs and cheer for their home boy.

Being a contender requires a plan, a plan that can't work if you're investing in a losing short-term. That's why Bud"s recent statements are so ambiguous...we're building for the short and long, you got to think about both teams...blah, blah.

Yeah. Focusing on the short term is only a feasible approach if you're actually contending in the short term. We're 23-22 since that 9-2 start.

Literally most of the season, we're just a tick above a .500 team.

Since the end of the 7 game win streak in December...we're 10-8.

Just a tick above a .500 team.

We're barely competitive in the short-term...so why are we so focused on preserving this?

We're a .500 team that is getting blown out by the magic. After getting blown out by the heat the night before. My optimism is finally dead, trade everyone for anything and start over cuz we messed this up bad.

[tbhawksfan1]

Don't let the ol "agenda" non argument distract. Attacking the messenger instead of adressing the argument.

Some of us want the Hawks to do what it takes to COMPETE, some are just happy to weakly make the playoffs and cheer for their home boy.

Being a contender requires a plan, a plan that can't work if you're investing in a losing short-term. That's why Bud"s recent statements are so ambiguous...we're building for the short and long, you got to think about both teams...blah, blah.

Yeah. Focusing on the short term is only a feasible approach if you're actually contending in the short term. We're 23-22 since that 9-2 start.

Literally most of the season, we're just a tick above a .500 team.

Since the end of the 7 game win streak in December...we're 10-8.

Just a tick above a .500 team.

We're barely competitive in the short-term...so why are we so focused on preserving this?

We're a .500 team that is getting blown out by the magic. After getting blown out by the heat the night before. My optimism is finally dead, trade everyone for anything and start over cuz we messed this up bad.

Too late. Who you gonna trade? DH and Baze are the guys that need to go and good luck getting anything for that. Schro has trade value, but he's our ONLY valuable, young player. Prince and Bembry have barely played. It's not just that the damage has been done, they burnt it to a crisp, crapped away all opportunities and left us with a team that will very soon be bottom 5-10 in talent.