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Start Green at PF!

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Post#41 Re: Start Green at PF!
Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:05 pm by Bosceltics

I say why not. Might as well give it a shot no?
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Post#42 Re: Start Green at PF!
Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:06 pm by WhateverBro

Godmoney wrote:I know you think you can just say things and they become true, but it actually takes me about 10 seconds to bring up the game log and see that LeBron scored 12 points in the 4th/OTs with Jeff Green on him. I said I agree that Jeff made him work. Not sure why I'm even being grilled on that statement. Also how has Jeff Green not been terrible since the Rondo injury? You both actually think he was having a good season?


What? Anyway, Green has had a good season so far nomatter how you spin it. Yes he started slow, understandable considering he hadn't played ball for a year. But his overall production this year has exceeded my expectations for him, I mean just look at the numbers;

10.9 ppg (55.8 TS%), 3.4 rpg, 1.1 apg, 0.6 spg, 0.8 bpg and 1.4 topg in just 25.2 mpg.

That's ~ 15, 5, 2, 1, 1 on above average scoring efficiency per 36 mins.

I have no clue what more people expected, his overall production this year has been good and the best part is that he's improving after starting slow. I would've been worried if he went the other way but the fact that he's looking better out there for every game and better as his role grows, makes me optimistic about his future.
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Post#43 Re: Start Green at PF!
Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:40 pm by Bosceltics

Lets stop hating on Jeff Green
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Post#44 Re: Start Green at PF!
Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:05 pm by Valid

Godmoney wrote:Green is kind of nice off the bench. Remember, this is a guy who vanishes if he plays with guys who are more assertive than him. It makes a lot of sense to me to put him on a unit where he is more of a focal point than to play him on the starting unit where he is a tertiary player.

He is "kind of" nice off the bench? I can assure you that every single team in the league would LOVE to have Green coming off the bench.

Some of you guys have a weird personal vendetta against this kid and can't admit you were wrong about him. He is a damn good player.
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Post#45 Re: Start Green at PF!
Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:30 pm by sam_I_am

Per 48

Green 21 ppg on 16 shots, 6.5 reb, 2.5 apg. 8 million per year
Gay 23 ppg on 22 shots, 7.9 reb, 3.3 apg. 17 million per year
Pierce 25 on 21, 9, 6, 16 million

I think he stacks up pretty well. Obviously his game would suffer if he was # 1 option without PP.

I think he is almost as good as Rudy Gay and getting better as the season goes on. Perkins trade looking like a steal.
"Rondo is our best player, simply." Danny Ainge
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Post#46 Re: Start Green at PF!
Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:58 pm by ermocrate

February

Code: Select all
Player        Season  Tm  G FG FGA  FG% FGX 3P 3PA  3P% 3PX eFG% Astd %Astd
                                                                           
Jeff Green   2012-13 BOS 10 57 103 .553  46 12  24 .500  12 .612   32  .561


January

Code: Select all
Player        Season  Tm  G FG FGA  FG% FGX 3P 3PA  3P% 3PX eFG% Astd %Astd
                                                                           
Jeff Green   2012-13 BOS 15 50 103 .485  53 10  29 .345  19 .534   38  .760


December

Code: Select all
Player        Season  Tm  G FG FGA  FG% FGX 3P 3PA  3P% 3PX eFG% Astd %Astd
                                                                           
Jeff Green   2012-13 BOS 14 60 145 .414  85 11  34 .324  23 .452   42  .700


November

Code: Select all
Player        Season  Tm  G FG FGA  FG% FGX 3P 3PA  3P% 3PX eFG% Astd %Astd
                                                                           
Jeff Green   2012-13 BOS 15 48 114 .421  66  7  24 .292  17 .452   28  .583



I can see a trend here.
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Post#47 Re: Start Green at PF!
Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:01 pm by BfB

Look, there are two different arguments here.

1. Brandon Bass is the weakest link in the starting 5
2. Jeff Green is historically bad at PF

Not every PF is Luis Scola. Green is not good defensively against stronger/bulkier players. He doesnt have the center of gravity needed to stop drives through his body consistently or deny position in the post.

However, over the past few weeks Green has been dominant defensively when playing the 3/2 positions. Offensively, he has grown substantially using his size at those positions as well.

None of this changes the fact that Brandon Bass has failed to adaquately man the PF position. Regardless of Green's limitations as a PF, he is a better player than Bass and needs a larger role on this team. There are too many wings and guards on this roster who are also better than Bass.

Thus, logic dictates that Green should see more time at the 4....maybe as the starter, despite his limitations there.

If Doc were smart he'd keep Green/Williams/Crawford in the rotation as 4/3/2 and drop Bass into situational usage. He's had enough time to fix himself, this is a lost season for him.
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Post#48 Re: Start Green at PF!
Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:15 pm by Fencer reregistered

BfB wrote:Look, there are two different arguments here.

1. Brandon Bass is the weakest link in the starting 5
2. Jeff Green is historically bad at PF

Not every PF is Luis Scola. Green is not good defensively against stronger/bulkier players. He doesnt have the center of gravity needed to stop drives through his body consistently or deny position in the post.

However, over the past few weeks Green has been dominant defensively when playing the 3/2 positions. Offensively, he has grown substantially using his size at those positions as well.

None of this changes the fact that Brandon Bass has failed to adaquately man the PF position. Regardless of Green's limitations as a PF, he is a better player than Bass and needs a larger role on this team. There are too many wings and guards on this roster who are also better than Bass.

Thus, logic dictates that Green should see more time at the 4....maybe as the starter, despite his limitations there.

If Doc were smart he'd keep Green/Williams/Crawford in the rotation as 4/3/2 and drop Bass into situational usage. He's had enough time to fix himself, this is a lost season for him.


It's almost as if you're arguing that Pierce should be defending the 4. :)
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Post#49 Re: Start Green at PF!
Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:30 am by wigglestrue

How did this not get bumped already?

So, which PF was so much better than Scola that we absolutely had to have Bass start?
0:01.8 A. Walker makes 3-pt shot from 28 ft (assist by E. Williams) +3 109-108
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_9qvmXiEuU
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Post#50 Re: Start Green at PF!
Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:35 am by 24istheLAW

wigglestrue wrote:How did this not get bumped already?

So, which PF was so much better than Scola that we absolutely had to have Bass start?


Aldridge and Hickson >>>>>>>>>> Scola

No way you can start Green against those beasts
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Post#51 Re: Start Green at PF!
Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:01 pm by wigglestrue

24istheLAW wrote:
wigglestrue wrote:How did this not get bumped already?

So, which PF was so much better than Scola that we absolutely had to have Bass start?


Aldridge and Hickson >>>>>>>>>> Scola

No way you can start Green against those beasts


Yes, the Herculean feat of containing those beasts can only be accomplished by the equally beastly Bass. :lol:
0:01.8 A. Walker makes 3-pt shot from 28 ft (assist by E. Williams) +3 109-108
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_9qvmXiEuU
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Post#52 Re: Start Green at PF!
Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:05 pm by Fantaxp7

Maybe if he wasn't such a Bass-tard.
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Post#53 Re: Start Green at PF!
Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:44 am by wigglestrue

Never mind the OT win tonight...

I want to know which Kraken was unleashed by the Jazz at PF that demanded that the epic hero Basseus play for 42 minutes versus the 28 for Jeff "The Peasant" Green.
0:01.8 A. Walker makes 3-pt shot from 28 ft (assist by E. Williams) +3 109-108
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_9qvmXiEuU
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Post#54 Re: Start Green at PF!
Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:46 am by Tenbomber

wigglestrue wrote:Never mind the OT win tonight...

I want to know which Kraken was unleashed by the Jazz at PF that demanded that the epic hero Basseus play for 42 minutes versus the 28 for Jeff "The Peasant" Green.


Yeah...Isn't that nuts? ...........(four pages worth)

The undermaned Celtic's continue to play hard and well and yet all this board can do is argue over who should play power forward....

Haters just love to hate, even when they have no good reason to!
what goes around comes around
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Post#55 Re: Start Green at PF!
Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:33 am by wigglestrue

Both teams played hard. Rec league teams play hard. Every team should play hard.

"Well" is arguable. 4 losses in 7 games. One of the wins was one of the ugliest NBA games in recent history. Last one was an OT one-possession win against a 7th seed, by a 7th seed. The other win...well, I'll get to that. The Celts are in a position now where, to have any plausible hope of competing for a title, they'll need a player to step out from the middling pack and assert his game-changing talent, if any such player has any such talent. It seems Doc must think the savior will be Brandon "The Colossus" Bass, either via some magical synergistic property wherein Bass makes average teammates good and good teammates great despite being underwhelming himself, or via some surprise reservoir of big-time talent that we need only wait to erupt when Bass overcomes his shyness and stops denying his own majesty. Meanwhile, in that other aforementioned win, the one the team won by 25 points, Jeff "Poopie" Green put up 31 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, 5 blocks on 11-14 shooting, 3-5 from three, 6-7 at the line, with 1 turnover, 1 foul, in 39 minutes, all while the other team's big men dropped a deuce on the court. And ever since Doc has had the wisdom to half-reward and half-test Green by starting him at PF the last two games against teams whose frontlines were not exceptionally intimidating, to figure out if Green really can take a leap forward if he plays most of the game in the synergistic presence of the team's best players rather than the depleted bench, to see if...oh, whoops, my bad, Bass the Magnificent is back to starting again and Green is back at the kiddy table. One more game of this crap away from "Fire Doc", I swear.
0:01.8 A. Walker makes 3-pt shot from 28 ft (assist by E. Williams) +3 109-108
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_9qvmXiEuU
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Post#56 Re: Start Green at PF!
Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:49 am by tombattor

Let's not go overboard here and start a lynch mob for Doc over Green/Bass thing. Don't take 1 game and over blow it into something bigger. Jeff the Great followed up his big game with 2 crappy ones. I also like Jeff Green more than Bass too, but it's not like Green is the answer to all our ills. He's way too inconsistent right now. Besides, the way the 2 players play, Jeff Green is better suited to be our 6th man because he is essentially our go-to guy when PP and KG are out.
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Post#57 Re: Start Green at PF!
Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:21 pm by wigglestrue

tombattor wrote:Let's not go overboard here and start a lynch mob for Doc over Green/Bass thing. Don't take 1 game and over blow it into something bigger. Jeff the Great followed up his big game with 2 crappy ones.


Off the bench. Playing only sporadically with the team's best players. No hope for any synergy that might bring.

I also like Jeff Green more than Bass too, but it's not like Green is the answer to all our ills. He's way too inconsistent right now.


We don't know how consistent he would be starting. So far, he's 1-for-1 in terms of Beasting When Starting. I know it's an age-old chicken/egg quandary, if a player could play better in a heightened role or if a player doesn't have a heightened role because he needs to play better, etc. But for heaven's sake, at least give the dude a chance to go 1-for-2. If Nassim Taleb were advising Ainge and Doc, he might say something about becoming antifragile to the misfortune of team-wide injuries only being possible if you are open to any positive black swans that might emerge in the aftermath, or something. Other than every competitor's stars getting crippled with a fluke ACL epidemic, Jeff Green is our only plausible black swan left, one that has peeked its head out, one we can maybe even actually anticipate and capitalize on. If we can just get out of the procrustean bed of "team chemistry" or "experience" or "matchups" or whatever it is that keeps Bass in the starting lineup and that Taleb the basketball consultant would scorn mercilessly.

Besides, the way the 2 players play, Jeff Green is better suited to be our 6th man because he is essentially our go-to guy when PP and KG are out.


I'd rather see if maybe we can get more 15-25 point leads on teams and not have to give as much of a **** about the 6th man.
0:01.8 A. Walker makes 3-pt shot from 28 ft (assist by E. Williams) +3 109-108
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_9qvmXiEuU
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Post#58 Re: Start Green at PF!
Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:41 pm by tombattor

wigglestrue, I see all your points. I think there is no real answer to whether Jeff Green will become more consistent in the starting lineup vs coming off the bench. It's like you said, chicken/egg type of discussion.

Also for the 6th man thing, no matter how good your starting lineup is, they can't play the entire game. We need someone to take on the scoring load on the 2nd unit. Bass isn't capable of being that player. Jeff Green is. And as much as it would be nice to see Jeff Green play with PP, KG, etc more, IMO, it's more important to make sure we don't have stretches of 5-10 minutes each half where we don't have any real offensive option on the floor.

If Jordan Crawford can become a JR Smith type, where he can come off the bench and give us 12~15 points as the main scoring option on the 2nd unit, I can see Jeff Green moving into the starting lineup, but until then, we just can't have periods where we're just not competing.
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Post#59 Re: Start Green at PF!
Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:53 pm by wigglestrue

Recently here, someone bristled at the idea that Doc was ever in danger of being fired in 2006-07 because, as the person claimed, Doc never lost the team despite losing almost 20 games in a row. Conveniently forgotten in that claim is the fact (relayed to us here second-hand by a friend of Big Al) that the team, led by Paul Pierce (his finest moment as a Celtic, imo) had to practically stage a mutiny against Doc to get him to involve Big Al more. Remember that? It was the only reason the Celtics were able to get KG, that Big Al was afforded a proper opportunity to produce, one that he deserved, one the team needed, the franchise needed, and one that Doc was unwilling to grant until the players turned on him. It was the positive black swan in that disaster of a season, but actually more like a grey swan or something, because the front office and especially the coaching staff and especially Doc ought to have known better. Hell, maybe it's not all on Doc. Maybe the reason for Bass continuing to start is related to some theory from Danny's in-house phrenologist or brain doctor or whatever. Or some enterprising well-meaning nerd whose pet metric shows that Bass contributes more than meets the eye. More than meets the nose, more like it. And the brain. Anyway, I don't know. Not about that. I do know, with as much certainty as it's possible for some schmuck on an internet message board to know, that Green should have started the last two games, and should probably be locked in to start the next 25.
0:01.8 A. Walker makes 3-pt shot from 28 ft (assist by E. Williams) +3 109-108
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_9qvmXiEuU
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Post#60 Re: Start Green at PF!
Sat Mar 2, 2013 3:03 am by wigglestrue

Okay. That's it.

Don't care that we won.
Don't care Green played well.

Bass still started the game.
Bass still got as many minutes as Green.

So, it's the principle of it.
Even if it's only half (or quarter) serious...

http://firedoc.ytmnd.com/
0:01.8 A. Walker makes 3-pt shot from 28 ft (assist by E. Williams) +3 109-108
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_9qvmXiEuU
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