Omer Asik Trade - Updated link pg.109

[mwhis21]

The Pacers are 13th in offensive rating despite Danny Granger not playing at all this season. They are better on both ends, it's that simple.

What do you mean by competitive? Are you saying if the Celtics could win a few games against the Pacers in a series? Of course they could, I mean the Hawks & Knicks took the Pacers to 6 so of course it's realistic that the hypothetical Celtics team could. But they wouldn't beat them. And that's all that matters. You don't get a trophy for being able to push a team to 6 or 7 games.

If you can push a team like Indy to 6 or 7 AND you still have enough assets to add another signifigant piece... then you've done pretty well for yourself. That would be the point here-- putting us in a position to be one piece away from fielding a true contender.

I agree with that. I don't think the hypothetical team would be the finished product. My initial post was simply responding to someone who said the current Celtics roster plus Asik would be just as good as Indiana, which I heavily disagreed with.

Who said that? I think I missed that and I've been following this thread closely.

[smith2373]

If you can push a team like Indy to 6 or 7 AND you still have enough assets to add another signifigant piece... then you've done pretty well for yourself. That would be the point here-- putting us in a position to be one piece away from fielding a true contender.

I agree with that. I don't think the hypothetical team would be the finished product. My initial post was simply responding to someone who said the current Celtics roster plus Asik would be just as good as Indiana, which I heavily disagreed with.

Who said that? I think I missed that and I've been following this thread closely.

I believe the person who I initially responded to said if the Celtics got elite chemistry like Indiana, then they were talented enough to be just as good as them.

If I misunderstood them, then that's my bad.

[mwhis21]

Ah, cool.

I don't think Rondo/Asik make the Celtics a contender for a championship, but we lose next to nothing to make that happen. Rondo/Bradley/Green/Sully/Asik.

We still have a ton of assets to make something big happen if the right deal comes along...this rebuild has got off to a great start.

[humblebum]

Ah, cool.

I don't think Rondo/Asik make the Celtics a contender for a championship, but we lose next to nothing to make that happen. Rondo/Bradley/Green/Sully/Asik.

We still have a ton of assets to make something big happen if the right deal comes along...this rebuild has got off to a great start.

It depends on what the Celtics have to give up but I think that the Celtics could theoretically compete for a title. By that I mean if the Celtics keep Bass and get Asik (plus add a healthy Rondo).

The Celtics would then have the type of defense to hang with both Miami and Indiana. Lose Bass and then you become overly reliant on Trash.

I go back and forth on which direction the Celtics should take but I would love to see them get a legit Center and keep Bass. A playoff rotation of Rondo/Craw, AB/Lee, Green/Trash, Sullinger/Bass, Asik/Olynyk is pretty scary. Lots of versatility, great defenders at every position, and if Rondo/Stevens could mastermind the chemistry... You never know.

[mwhis21]

Ah, cool.

I don't think Rondo/Asik make the Celtics a contender for a championship, but we lose next to nothing to make that happen. Rondo/Bradley/Green/Sully/Asik.

We still have a ton of assets to make something big happen if the right deal comes along...this rebuild has got off to a great start.

It depends on what the Celtics have to give up but I think that the Celtics could theoretically compete for a title. By that I mean if the Celtics keep Bass and get Asik (plus add a healthy Rondo).

The Celtics would then have the type of defense to hang with both Miami and Indiana. Lose Bass and then you become overly reliant on Trash.

I go back and forth on which direction the Celtics should take but I would love to see them get a legit Center and keep Bass. A playoff rotation of Rondo/Craw, AB/Lee, Green/Trash, Sullinger/Bass, Asik/Olynyk is pretty scary. Lots of versatility, great defenders at every position, and if Rondo/Stevens could mastermind the chemistry... You never know.

Couldn't agree more--Defensively they'd be one of the best if not the best team in the league. Offensively? We'll see how Rondo slides in...Rondo's shooting has improved to respectable especially around the elbows. This year, I want to see him be aggressive getting to the rim and getting on the FT line more. For me, that's the key. Even if he shoots 60-65%, but get there 5-6 times per game.

Make the defense have to account for that.

I don't expect it to happen right off the bat, but I'm excited to see this team 100% healthy. Ownership didn't care about luxury tax when we had PP/KG, but now they care despite the fact we're closer than we were last year to contending. Odd. Wonder how the players feel about that.

[ryaningf]

Offensively? We'll see how Rondo slides in...Rondo's shooting has improved to respectable especially around the elbows. This year, I want to see him be aggressive getting to the rim and getting on the FT line more. For me, that's the key. Even if he shoots 60-65%, but get there 5-6 times per game.

Not going to happen this season coming off injury. I agree its an area he can improve on, but coming off the ACL he's going to be more perimeter oriented. No upside to falling down a bunch.

What will happen is that we'll see Rondo put in more catch-and-shoot situations and take more 3s in general. If an uptick in FTAs occurs, it'll be in 2014-2015.

[Captain_Caveman]

Same dude from International Business Times who had the Rondo rumor yesterday is saying Asik-Deng-Lin happening.

LOL

http://ca.ibtimes.com/articles/530706/2 ... ockets.htm

[ryaningf]

Same dude from International Business Times who had the Rondo rumor yesterday is saying Asik-Deng-Lin happening.

LOL

http://ca.ibtimes.com/articles/530706/2 ... ockets.htm

Page hits, yo, page hits.

[12buckets]

Ah, cool.

I don't think Rondo/Asik make the Celtics a contender for a championship, but we lose next to nothing to make that happen. Rondo/Bradley/Green/Sully/Asik.

We still have a ton of assets to make something big happen if the right deal comes along...this rebuild has got off to a great start.

It depends on what the Celtics have to give up but I think that the Celtics could theoretically compete for a title. By that I mean if the Celtics keep Bass and get Asik (plus add a healthy Rondo).

The Celtics would then have the type of defense to hang with both Miami and Indiana. Lose Bass and then you become overly reliant on Trash.

I go back and forth on which direction the Celtics should take but I would love to see them get a legit Center and keep Bass. A playoff rotation of Rondo/Craw, AB/Lee, Green/Trash, Sullinger/Bass, Asik/Olynyk is pretty scary. Lots of versatility, great defenders at every position, and if Rondo/Stevens could mastermind the chemistry... You never know.

Couldn't agree more--Defensively they'd be one of the best if not the best team in the league. Offensively? We'll see how Rondo slides in...Rondo's shooting has improved to respectable especially around the elbows. This year, I want to see him be aggressive getting to the rim and getting on the FT line more. For me, that's the key. Even if he shoots 60-65%, but get there 5-6 times per game.

Make the defense have to account for that.

I don't expect it to happen right off the bat, but I'm excited to see this team 100% healthy. Ownership didn't care about luxury tax when we had PP/KG, but now they care despite the fact we're closer than we were last year to contending. Odd. Wonder how the players feel about that.

There was a different CBA in place during the KG and Ray acquisitions, with a less punitive luxury tax. now, a team is considered a "repeater" if they were in the luxury tax three times in the previous 4 seasons and have higher luxury tax hits. So now you basically need to be under the tax for 2 years during a rebuild, have three seasons where you pay the old luxury tax once you start being competitive (if you only take one year off from lux tax, you only get two subsequent seasons in normal tax because it still would have been three of the last four), then maybe have two more seasons where the competitiveness is worth the increased tax. but and then teams will have some serious decisions to make between keeping paying even higher than before luxury tax rates the next couple seasons (I think the third tier is 5 bucks for every dollar over...yikes. something nuts like that) or blow up, get back under the cap, and start over.

We're lucky as Celtic Fans because we have owners who would definitely pay that first tier of increased repeater tax in order to compete, and maybe even the second if a title is realistic, but even they have their limits. New York, Brooklyn, and LA are the only teams that can really afford to go any higher than that, while most teams would be scared of even that first increased bill. Right now the ownership and Danny Ainge are desperate to keep the team under the tax for this season and next, so they have the ability to extend the window one more season once the young guys start getting paid/we trade for a superstar. Keep that in mind when adding players. We're barely under the luxury tax now, so we need to send out more money then we take back in (lowering our total payroll), or we'd just be screwing our future.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Same dude from International Business Times who had the Rondo rumor yesterday is saying Asik-Deng-Lin happening.

LOL

http://ca.ibtimes.com/articles/530706/2 ... ockets.htm

What's funny if you actually read it is that the Hawks would be trading Elton Brand and Demare Carroll to Chicago and getting Asik. Bulls send Deng to HOU, get Lin. So the Hawks steal Asik for nothing, and the Bulls give up probably their best player at this point to get Jeremy Lin?

[Captain_Caveman]

Beats yesetrday, where he has the Kings trading picks they don't even have in a 4-for-1 trade that would have sent us well over the hard cap lol.

[ddb]

okay so here is what I've been told by a buddy of mine on the Asik/Boston speculation. Take it for what it's worth.

Ainge is trying like hell to get Philly to become a facilitator in an Asik to Boston deal. Green and Bass are 2 players that peak Hou's interest. Ainge, believe it or not would like to hang on to both Green and Bass. I was told that Ainge loves the way Bass as matured as a player on and off the court. Views him as the prototypical 3rd big on a very good team. Even if Ainge is able to get this deal done he still views Sully/Bass finishing games together with Asik on the bench. Asik is a very good defensive Center, but not the type of guy you want on the court to finish games because of his horrendous free throw shooting and inability to space the floor. So ideally what Ainge is hoping for is an Asik/Sully unit starting. Bass as 3rd big, KO and Fav fight for 4th big mins. And then as far as Green goes, Ainge thinks Green is too steep an asking price for Asik. They see no reason to move Green who they view as a guy on a "fair" market deal.

So that leads us to Philly. Philly has 3 players who Houston is interested in. Turner, Young, Hawes. And we know about Philly needing to get to the salary cap floor at some point this season.

so what Ainge is trying to do is move the expiring deals of Hump/Bogans to Philly which gets them to the floor. and we know Hump/Bogs expire so Philly isn't hit with any contacts beyond this season. Essentially they get worse and pretty much guarantee themselves a top 5 pick this year. Ainge wants Philly to move 1 of the Hawes, Turner, Young group to Houston and then Asik would end up in Boston. I'm told Ainge is willing to deal 1 pick to Philly, likely the 2015 clips pick in exchange for cooperating as a facilitator. Ainge is also willing to basically give Brooks to Houston as well as a sweetener.

So it would look something like this.

Boston Out: Hump/Bogans/Brooks/2015 Clips
Boston In: Asik

Philly Out: Young
Philly In: Hump/Bogans/2015 Clips pick

Houston Out: Asik
Houston in: Young/Brooks

Leaves the Celts with a Rondo/Bradley/Green/Sully/Asik starting 5. Crawford is 1st guard off bench, Bass is first big off bench. Wallace/Lee/KO/Fav round out the bench unit. Very solid team that should be good enough for a Top 4 seed. So Ainge is developing his young core in a winning environment but is keeping potential future moves in play by keeping the majority of his picks, most notably the 2014 picks.

Leaves Philly with a terrible team. Along with Utah and Milwaukee, Philly would be a lock for a Top 5 pick. They maintain full control of their cap and then can feel comfortable rolling out MCW, Turner, etc without worrying about winning too many games. Ideally, they land Parker or Wiggins this year and then another blue chipper like Myles or Okafor next year... along with cap space they should be done with their rebuild by 2015.

Leaves Houston with Beverly/Harden/Parsons/Young/Howard Lin/Jones on bench among the others.

Personally, I think it's a win, win, win. Really just comes down to Philly cooperating and Houston being good with the Young/Brooks return

[ddb]

also, there's the risk of Philly simply dealing with Houston directly. But from what I'm told they aren't too interested in Asik. By the time they are any good Asik will have expired and probably wouldn't resign. So adding a future chip, unloading a multi-year contract (young), getting to the floor PLUS pretty much guaranteeing a top 5 pick this year....philly accomplishes 4 things in 1 deal

[Andrew McCeltic]

Great info, thanks..

[Andrew McCeltic]

The Green and Bass reasoning make sense and match up with what we're seeing.. my concern is that we get stuck with this group, and that it won't be a super-talented team but a super-well-constructed and coached one.. Like I don't see how we get better after Asik.. You look to move Wallace and Lee, obviously.. maybe Crawford. But that's basically it.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Makes sense ddb. I think Philly would be taking on too much payroll under the CBA, if they took both Hump & Bogans though.

Would love to see Lee go to Houston, with Bogans and a pick going to Philly, and still retaining Hump's expiring..

[15th overall]

The market for Asik really must be dry if we can confidently take even Bass off the table in negotiations. Hump and a 1st would be a steal.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Yup, well HOU is looking for players who fit the core they have, and there are a lot of solid rebounding/defense 5s in the league right now, surprisingly… I can see DEN maybe having interest, sending Mcgee to a third team (but who?), CHA as well.. but it's hard to find a match.

[ddb]

The market for Asik really must be dry if we can confidently take even Bass off the table in negotiations. Hump and a 1st would be a steal.

right, but at the same time expirings have value. I think most teams would probably prefer Hump to Bass simply because he's off books after this year. IDK. Just what I was told. I'm sure Ainge will do some trade that nobody saw coming. But what I like about all of this is that Ainge isn't willing to simply trade away good players. Like Bass even. And I agree with that. I never thought Bass was very good until this year. He's solid. Not a star. Just solid. that mid range J is underrated. if he's gone we miss that. his defense is underrated. he can guard multiple positions with confidence. with Sully emerging and with Bass/Sully proving that they can play well together, I like keeping them both on this team.

but as far as Asik goes. I'd love to have him. good 7 foot centers don't grow on trees. if Houston misses out on the Dwight Howard sweepstakes then there's no way in hell Houston is trading Asik. And the fact that Asik requested a trade and that Houston is willing to deal him is sorta the perfect storm. And with Boston having the assets to do a deal, they almost have leverage.

Would be a great deal for boston

[rickrolled]

Why would Boston send the Sixers a pick to facilitate a deal ?

Hopefully Ainge doesn't do any favours for Morey-Hinkie.

Morey should be the one giving up a pick to Philly.