Bob Ryan - Celtics interested in Harrison Barnes

[Egregiousness]

doesnt make sense trading assets to get into the lottery to get a player who plays the position we are at the strongest (pierce/green)

[return2glory]

Harrison Barnes is overrated. I would take him at 21 but not at #4. I don't understand why this guy is rated so high. Zeller, Henson, and Marshall were better than him and NC.

Barnes is a jump shooter than struggles to create his shot and get to the rim. He doesn't get to the line enough and does not have a go to move.

NO TO BARNS!!!!!!

[humblebum]

That's a strong stance to take against a guy with his tools. Harrison Barnes has 5 tool ability a la the Magnificent Paul Pierce. Barnes is a scary good prospect and if Ainge is truly targeting him I'd be very excited. Celtics haven't had the chance to draft someone that talented in a while.

[Frank Lucas]

That is why I think is Barnes talk is a smokescreen. I think the player Danny would like to have is Beal. You need scorers that can space the floor with Rondo on the court. You have Jeff Green coming back so he would pretty much go to his natural position SF. Beal is pretty much a young Ray Allen type. If they was to trade up I think the best trading partner would be Golden State, they want to make the play-offs next year, they are in need a of SF. Paul Pierce is the trading chip that Danny would used. I'm pretty sure Golden State would trade the #7 pick for Paul Pierce.

[Godmoney]

smokescreen? Danny is saying he is interested in a top 5 pick when his first pick isn't until 21? That makes a grant total of zero sense.

Rondo is pretty much a bonafide NBA star at this point. He is a tier below the superduperstars like Durant, LeBron, Dwight, Rose, CP3, etc., but he is solidly in that next tier. Anthony Davis is viewed as a franchise savior in this draft and Rondo isn't getting you the #1 pick. Everyone else is considered to be star players in the Rondo tier. I don't see Ainge swinging a deal like this because he assumes all the risk by trading a known commodity for a guy who could potentially bust in the pros. I'd love to get Barnes to add to Bradley/Rondo but we don't have the juice to get a deal like that done. Rondo for Barnes just puts this team in no man's land where we have an aging roster plus a 20 year old and everyone plays the same position, etc. It'd have to be one of many deals, which makes the scenario less likely manifest itself in reality.

[Egregiousness]

call me crazy, but i actually think perry jones and moe harkless are better prospects. and its likely at least one will slip to us

[Gomes3PC]

I still think people are under-selling the possibility that Ainge could sell high on Rondo in this off-season. To me he's more "Al Jefferson" than "Paul Pierce" in Ainge's way of thinking regarding building a championship caliber team. Now that he's at his peak value people are actually talking like getting Harrison Barnes + another productive young player is a bad deal. Would people have said that after year 2 or 3 in Rondo's career? No.

To win it all you need to have the most talented players and though Rondo has turned himself into a fantastic pro he's done that mostly on intelligence and guile. A guy like Barnes has oodles more talent than Rondo but needs to learn how to play the game the right way.

If the Celtics traded into the top 5 to get someone like Barnes it will be because they decided to trade Rondo or a team up that high was in love with Bradley. Maybe Pierce/21/22 could get the Celtics into Golden State's spot at 7 or to Portland at 6... But ultimately the most likely scenario to trading up THAT high would be to deal Rondo.

This is one of the more ignorant posts I've seen. To call Rondo a guy who gets by on intelligence and guile is comically incorrect. There is one - ONE - thing that Rondo does not do better than average at for an NBA PG. Shoot from 15 feet out. Other than that, he is a physical freak. He's as fast up and down the court as any player in the NBA. He has quick feet and hands on defense. He rebounds as well as any PG the NBA has seen outside Jason Kidd. He has unparalleled vision on the floor. His handle is tremendous. To call him a guy who gets by on guile like he's Shane Battier or something is comical.

[Slartibartfast]

:lol: smokescreen? Danny is saying he is interested in a top 5 pick when his first pick isn't until 21? That makes a grant total of zero sense.

Rondo is pretty much a bonafide NBA star at this point. He is a tier below the superduperstars like Durant, LeBron, Dwight, Rose, CP3, etc., but he is solidly in that next tier. Anthony Davis is viewed as a franchise savior in this draft and Rondo isn't getting you the #1 pick. Everyone else is considered to be star players in the Rondo tier. I don't see Ainge swinging a deal like this because he assumes all the risk by trading a known commodity for a guy who could potentially bust in the pros. I'd love to get Barnes to add to Bradley/Rondo but we don't have the juice to get a deal like that done. Rondo for Barnes just puts this team in no man's land where we have an aging roster plus a 20 year old and everyone plays the same position, etc. It'd have to be one of many deals, which makes the scenario less likely manifest itself in reality.

In optimistic scenarios, I could see the Trailblazers giving up #6 for Bradley + #21 + #22 (if Drummond's off the board) or Golden St. packaging the #7 with their bad contracts for Pierce.

[humblebum]

I still think people are under-selling the possibility that Ainge could sell high on Rondo in this off-season. To me he's more "Al Jefferson" than "Paul Pierce" in Ainge's way of thinking regarding building a championship caliber team. Now that he's at his peak value people are actually talking like getting Harrison Barnes + another productive young player is a bad deal. Would people have said that after year 2 or 3 in Rondo's career? No.

To win it all you need to have the most talented players and though Rondo has turned himself into a fantastic pro he's done that mostly on intelligence and guile. A guy like Barnes has oodles more talent than Rondo but needs to learn how to play the game the right way.

If the Celtics traded into the top 5 to get someone like Barnes it will be because they decided to trade Rondo or a team up that high was in love with Bradley. Maybe Pierce/21/22 could get the Celtics into Golden State's spot at 7 or to Portland at 6... But ultimately the most likely scenario to trading up THAT high would be to deal Rondo.

This is one of the more ignorant posts I've seen. To call Rondo a guy who gets by on intelligence and guile is comically incorrect. There is one - ONE - thing that Rondo does not do better than average at for an NBA PG. Shoot from 15 feet out. Other than that, he is a physical freak. He's as fast up and down the court as any player in the NBA. He has quick feet and hands on defense. He rebounds as well as any PG the NBA has seen outside Jason Kidd. He has unparalleled vision on the floor. His handle is tremendous. To call him a guy who gets by on guile like he's Shane Battier or something is comical.

Panties in a twist? Here's an education for you.

In the game of basketball shooting is generally considered one of the most valuable and important skills a player can possess. The ability to shoot not only allows a player to score from all areas and in various modes of attack, but it also impacts the way a defender (and a collective defense) has to approach guarding that player. People talk about how a good shooter "spreads" the floor, which is an obvious benefit to teammates as they're allowed more "space" to operate. Having a good shot means putting ultimate pressure on defenders to close out to the shooter, if a player does not possess a threatening jumper it's much more difficult to break down a defense from isolation or ball rotation.

Regardless of Rondo's improvements in his shooting game, he's still scouted and defended as a non-entity offensively, with opponents often preferring Rondo to shoot wide open 15 footers and contested layups in order that they could better cover the other 4 players of the offense. If you're not being defended or your man is playing a zone at the FT line... that's a major weakness Rondo's presence imposes on your offense. ****Having KG is also a huge bonus for Rondo as he's often the player spreading the floor, setting the pick, to create space for Rondo's drive and kick game.

What allows Rondo to be successful is his intelligence for recognizing how the defense is defending him and finding the open man. It's not all vision and magic tricks. He needs to actually read the defense because he can't just come down the court and make a positive impact with his jumper, stretching the floor, When he's at his best he's reading the defense to a T and mixing in mid-range, paint attacks, and getting to the line.

Guile is how Rondo uses pass fakes, no looks, off-beat passes, under the arm layups, wrong footed layups, left handed hook passes on the drive, etc. I didn't know it was a diss to say someone like Rondo uses intelligence and guile, he's certainly not a guy who's cramming it at the rim, killing defenses by consistently getting to the line, or knocking down shots from all over.

Rondo does not have great size for the PG spot. He makes up for it, again, partially with intelligence and guile with his understanding of again, where the open man is and how to take away those opportunities playing the passing lanes, getting deflections, digs, etc. And of course having great length and quicks (something I would never knock Rondo on) helps, he's definitely one of the better athletes pound for pound and inch for inch, but a guy like Avery is a vastly superior physical presence on the court.

Your welcome.

[mwhis21]

I think the way you view Rondo is the way most people outside of Boston viewed Paul Pierce for the longest time. Why was he never considered in the same category as Kobe, McGrady, Vince Carter? He didn't have the freakish athleticism to throw down monster dunks or the handles of a PG to just cross up everyone in the way.

He also relied on his "guile" and strength which is why he has been so damn good into his mid 30s and probably still has a few more years left. He relied on his ability to get to spots, up fakes and little tricks to create space.

Rondo is a sure fire Top 10 MVP candidate for the next 5-7 years. Harrison Barnes is Michael Jordon on paper.

[humblebum]

Ugh, people are intent on fitting this Rondo (square peg) into a round hole (Pierce). The analogy doesn't fit, it's bogus, asinine, irrelevant, confusing and misleading. Different players, different circumstances, different time, please for the sake of having a logical discussion regarding Rondo can we please find a closer analogy/comparison in history, pretty please?

Sure fire Top 10 MVP playing with Pierce and KG? Maybe, I don't think so but I'm not David Stern, so... Playing with "normal" players Rondo will still put up great numbers and be an effective player but his team success will go in the tank unless they're replaced with other high impact stars. Rondo's not good enough to carry a bunch of good players to a title. In fact, to me Rondo is a classic 2nd tier or number 3 guy in a pecking order which is what he's been here in Boston.

[pac213up]

In fact, to me Rondo is a classic 2nd tier or number 3 guy in a pecking order which is what he's been here in Boston.

Probably a #2 guy which I really do not see anything wrong with. Pierce needed a better player as well (KG) to really be a true contender. Besides if you if you are expecting your PG to be a #1 (whatever that means) you are not winning titles anyways.

[crosko42]

Ugh, people are intent on fitting this Rondo (square peg) into a round hole (Pierce). The analogy doesn't fit, it's bogus, asinine, irrelevant, confusing and misleading. Different players, different circumstances, different time, please for the sake of having a logical discussion regarding Rondo can we please find a closer analogy/comparison in history, pretty please?

Sure fire Top 10 MVP playing with Pierce and KG? Maybe, I don't think so but I'm not David Stern, so... Playing with "normal" players Rondo will still put up great numbers and be an effective player but his team success will go in the tank unless they're replaced with other high impact stars. Rondo's not good enough to carry a bunch of good players to a title. In fact, to me Rondo is a classic 2nd tier or number 3 guy in a pecking order which is what he's been here in Boston.

I agree.

If he was a true #1 we would've been at a whole different level with the best #2 option (pierce) #3 option (KG) #4 option (Ray/Bradley) in the league.

He will put up ~14-18 ppg, 9-11 ast, 4-6 boards and a couple of steals, but I don't think you win any championships with rondo as your best player.

[Gomes3PC]

I'm not saying Rondo is a #1 option. But there's probably only 8 of those guys in the entire NBA:

Durant
LeBron
Wade (when healthy)
Rose
Dirk
Dwight
CP3
Westbrook(?)

I don't see anyone in this draft that has Numero Uno type of ability. We've already seen Danny is willing to deal Rondo if it can get him a 1st banana. But if he can't, there's no sense in dealing him for a 3rd banana like Tyreke Evans or Harrison Barnes. There's not too many 2nd bananas out there in general, so no sense in dumping a quarter (Rondo) for two dimes and a nickel just because you can't trade him for a silver dollar.

EDIT - I'd also trade Rondo for a big like Love, Bynum, Bosh, or even Pau Gasol, if only because I think you can win without a 1st banana if you have dominant size, defense and coaching.

[Gomes3PC]

I still think people are under-selling the possibility that Ainge could sell high on Rondo in this off-season. To me he's more "Al Jefferson" than "Paul Pierce" in Ainge's way of thinking regarding building a championship caliber team. Now that he's at his peak value people are actually talking like getting Harrison Barnes + another productive young player is a bad deal. Would people have said that after year 2 or 3 in Rondo's career? No.

To win it all you need to have the most talented players and though Rondo has turned himself into a fantastic pro he's done that mostly on intelligence and guile. A guy like Barnes has oodles more talent than Rondo but needs to learn how to play the game the right way.

If the Celtics traded into the top 5 to get someone like Barnes it will be because they decided to trade Rondo or a team up that high was in love with Bradley. Maybe Pierce/21/22 could get the Celtics into Golden State's spot at 7 or to Portland at 6... But ultimately the most likely scenario to trading up THAT high would be to deal Rondo.

This is one of the more ignorant posts I've seen. To call Rondo a guy who gets by on intelligence and guile is comically incorrect. There is one - ONE - thing that Rondo does not do better than average at for an NBA PG. Shoot from 15 feet out. Other than that, he is a physical freak. He's as fast up and down the court as any player in the NBA. He has quick feet and hands on defense. He rebounds as well as any PG the NBA has seen outside Jason Kidd. He has unparalleled vision on the floor. His handle is tremendous. To call him a guy who gets by on guile like he's Shane Battier or something is comical.

Panties in a twist? Here's an education for you.

In the game of basketball shooting is generally considered one of the most valuable and important skills a player can possess. The ability to shoot not only allows a player to score from all areas and in various modes of attack, but it also impacts the way a defender (and a collective defense) has to approach guarding that player. People talk about how a good shooter "spreads" the floor, which is an obvious benefit to teammates as they're allowed more "space" to operate. Having a good shot means putting ultimate pressure on defenders to close out to the shooter, if a player does not possess a threatening jumper it's much more difficult to break down a defense from isolation or ball rotation.

Regardless of Rondo's improvements in his shooting game, he's still scouted and defended as a non-entity offensively, with opponents often preferring Rondo to shoot wide open 15 footers and contested layups in order that they could better cover the other 4 players of the offense. If you're not being defended or your man is playing a zone at the FT line... that's a major weakness Rondo's presence imposes on your offense. ****Having KG is also a huge bonus for Rondo as he's often the player spreading the floor, setting the pick, to create space for Rondo's drive and kick game.

What allows Rondo to be successful is his intelligence for recognizing how the defense is defending him and finding the open man. It's not all vision and magic tricks. He needs to actually read the defense because he can't just come down the court and make a positive impact with his jumper, stretching the floor, When he's at his best he's reading the defense to a T and mixing in mid-range, paint attacks, and getting to the line.

Guile is how Rondo uses pass fakes, no looks, off-beat passes, under the arm layups, wrong footed layups, left handed hook passes on the drive, etc. I didn't know it was a diss to say someone like Rondo uses intelligence and guile, he's certainly not a guy who's cramming it at the rim, killing defenses by consistently getting to the line, or knocking down shots from all over.

Rondo does not have great size for the PG spot. He makes up for it, again, partially with intelligence and guile with his understanding of again, where the open man is and how to take away those opportunities playing the passing lanes, getting deflections, digs, etc. And of course having great length and quicks (something I would never knock Rondo on) helps, he's definitely one of the better athletes pound for pound and inch for inch, but a guy like Avery is a vastly superior physical presence on the court.

Your welcome.

Wow. Thanks for sharing that shooting + height is important. I love being talked down to by an Internet tough guy. As I just posted, Rondo is not a #1 player and nobody is saying he is. You won't win with Rondo as your best player. But Harrison Barnes and Tyreke Evans are even worse options as your #1 guy. Unless the Celtics can deal Rondo for a #1 guy, or a pick that could become a #1 guy, there's no sense in dumping him. He's young, cost-controlled, exciting and makes his teammates better.

FWIW, Rondo's nowhere near as bad a jump shooter as he is made out to be. 82games has him as a 36% eFG shooter on jumpers. Russell Westbrook is at 36% and Tony Parker hovered below 40% for much of his career before improving of late. The big difference is those guys shot jumpers 60% of the time and took more overall shots, so they make more of them, even at a lower clip. Rondo simply needs to shoot it more. He'll likely improve his stroke, because it's not like they'll be heavily contested, and it will also open up things for the offense more.