The 2 players we need to make the most strides - KO & Smart
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The 2 players we need to make the most strides - KO & Smart
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The 2 players we need to make the most strides - KO & Smart
What keeps me interested in watching the current team is the player developments. For me, the 2 players we need to step up the most are KO and Smart. The reason I say this is because we pretty much already know what we have in Rondo, Bradley, Green, and Sully.
1. Rondo- the best passer in the game. Probably the best rebounder at his position. He struggles with scoring, at the line, and playing man to man defense.
2. Bradley- he will give us 13-16 PPG on 13-15 shots a game. Rarely goes to the line, a below average rebounder, passer, and ball handler. His defense has been slipping.
3. Green- he will give you 16-19 points a game, 5 rebounds, and gets to the line. He is capable of big games, but is also known for disappearing in other games.
4. Sully- though early in the season, he has made a leap. We knew he could be a double-double guy with increased minutes, and he has done that. He is also slowly improving on the defense end.
So that leaves KO and Smart. They currently play the positions that we need most help in, SG and Center. These two are the wild cards IMO, because they have the move room to improve from the 6 players I mentioned. I feel for now, barring any trades, KO and Smart are the main reasons if this team is going to stay the same or make improvements. We actually need these 2 guys to become better than average players.
The good thing is that both KO and Smart are hard workers and love the game. We know KO needs to improve his defense and insert himself more on the offensive side. He also needs to improve a littl more on his rebounding. Smart needs to work on his outside shot and driving more and finishing better near the rim. I would love for him to develope a floater.
It may be a lot to ask for these two young players, but it would be nice to see them become better players from know til the end of this season. I'm keeping my eyes on these two and look for good things from both of them.
1. Rondo- the best passer in the game. Probably the best rebounder at his position. He struggles with scoring, at the line, and playing man to man defense.
2. Bradley- he will give us 13-16 PPG on 13-15 shots a game. Rarely goes to the line, a below average rebounder, passer, and ball handler. His defense has been slipping.
3. Green- he will give you 16-19 points a game, 5 rebounds, and gets to the line. He is capable of big games, but is also known for disappearing in other games.
4. Sully- though early in the season, he has made a leap. We knew he could be a double-double guy with increased minutes, and he has done that. He is also slowly improving on the defense end.
So that leaves KO and Smart. They currently play the positions that we need most help in, SG and Center. These two are the wild cards IMO, because they have the move room to improve from the 6 players I mentioned. I feel for now, barring any trades, KO and Smart are the main reasons if this team is going to stay the same or make improvements. We actually need these 2 guys to become better than average players.
The good thing is that both KO and Smart are hard workers and love the game. We know KO needs to improve his defense and insert himself more on the offensive side. He also needs to improve a littl more on his rebounding. Smart needs to work on his outside shot and driving more and finishing better near the rim. I would love for him to develope a floater.
It may be a lot to ask for these two young players, but it would be nice to see them become better players from know til the end of this season. I'm keeping my eyes on these two and look for good things from both of them.
Re: The 2 players we need to make the most strides
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Re: The 2 players we need to make the most strides
return2glory wrote:What keeps me interested in watching the current team is the player developments. For me, the 2 players we need to step up the most are KO and Smart. The reason I say this is because we pretty much already know what we have in Rondo, Bradley, Green, and Sully.
...
Smart has the determination to succeed at the team level that allowed Corey Brewer to win an NBA Championship with Dallas, and two NCAA Championships at Florida, and a Most Outstanding NCAA Tournament Player at Florida. However, I think Smart's NBA position is going to be Point Guard, not shooting guard, on the offensive end; although Smart can defend the SG position if necessary. Playing non-outside shooters Rondo and Smart at the same time does not help the offense against any decent defensive team.
Olynyk I have hopes will become a Chandler Parsons type on offense (he may already be that, this season); although he clearly doesn't have the lower body strength, physicality. hops or arm length to be a post defender. He's more of a stretch PF who unfortunately is paired with undersized C Sullinger (true height of 6' 7.75").
Re: The 2 players we need to make the most strides
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Re: The 2 players we need to make the most strides
Jammer, as long as Rondo is here, Smart needs to be a SG as well as a PG. So I think he is more of a combo guard.
I don't see a KO and Parson Chandler comparison at all. They are two different type of players.
I don't see a KO and Parson Chandler comparison at all. They are two different type of players.
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Re: The 2 players we need to make the most strides
Smart needs to show a ton more on offense. Defense at the PG spot is just not something you can count on. Is there ANY PG defender in the NBA right now? I mean a guy who you say - wow I want x on my team because of his great defense of PGs?
You don't want your PG to be like Dan Dickau - a turnstyle - but hoping a guy like Smart can play top level defense at the PG spot and make a career out of just that is foolish. Smart needs to be like C. Billups on the offensive side of the ball. Maybe he can do it - but his inability to flash into the paint has me officially worried.
I remember reading for YEARS on this forum about how Rondo was this game changing uber defender at the PG spot. By the numbers that was never true - he was for a year a decent steal guy.. but lets not go down that dead end road again with another PG. its extremely difficult in today's NBA to defend PGs. They are very quick and there is no hand checking.
We already have Bradley who makes his living defending PGs. (with some mixed results). Teams just aren't looking for PG stoppers. It's not a real catergory. We need superior defenders at the 3, 4, and 5 spots because those positions can really make a difference.
You don't want your PG to be like Dan Dickau - a turnstyle - but hoping a guy like Smart can play top level defense at the PG spot and make a career out of just that is foolish. Smart needs to be like C. Billups on the offensive side of the ball. Maybe he can do it - but his inability to flash into the paint has me officially worried.
I remember reading for YEARS on this forum about how Rondo was this game changing uber defender at the PG spot. By the numbers that was never true - he was for a year a decent steal guy.. but lets not go down that dead end road again with another PG. its extremely difficult in today's NBA to defend PGs. They are very quick and there is no hand checking.
We already have Bradley who makes his living defending PGs. (with some mixed results). Teams just aren't looking for PG stoppers. It's not a real catergory. We need superior defenders at the 3, 4, and 5 spots because those positions can really make a difference.
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Re: The 2 players we need to make the most strides
GuyClinch wrote:Smart needs to show a ton more on offense. Defense at the PG spot is just not something you can count on. Is there ANY PG defender in the NBA right now? I mean a guy who you say - wow I want x on my team because of his great defense of PGs?
You don't want your PG to be like Dan Dickau - a turnstyle - but hoping a guy like Smart can play top level defense at the PG spot and make a career out of just that is foolish. Smart needs to be like C. Billups on the offensive side of the ball. Maybe he can do it - but his inability to flash into the paint has me officially worried.
I remember reading for YEARS on this forum about how Rondo was this game changing uber defender at the PG spot. By the numbers that was never true - he was for a year a decent steal guy.. but lets not go down that dead end road again with another PG. its extremely difficult in today's NBA to defend PGs. They are very quick and there is no hand checking.
We already have Bradley who makes his living defending PGs. (with some mixed results). Teams just aren't looking for PG stoppers. It's not a real catergory. We need superior defenders at the 3, 4, and 5 spots because those positions can really make a difference.
Like I've said, I think Smart is a combo guard, not just a PG. You are right in that it's tough to defend against quick PGs. The best at that position might be Beverly from Houston. But Smart can defend against SGs as well.
I agree that Smart has a ways to go in offense and that's what I was saying. The guy is very competitive from all reports and I'm sure he will work hard to improve his offensive game.
KO concerns me a little more in that he has a weak mental makeup. The guy lacks a killer instinct to ever become a star. He is way too passive. Buy he still has a chance to be a good player in a year or two.
Re: The 2 players we need to make the most strides
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Re: The 2 players we need to make the most strides
I'm going to put it out there that overall I've been really happy with what KO and Sully have done so far. Not to change the topic too much, but here is some details on Sullinger this year compared to last:
Per 100 possessions (takes minutes and pace into account so good for comparison)
Most noteworthy is that his assists have gone way up year over year while he has cut his TOs to a very low level. Sully's three point percentage stinks again this year, but it's largely on account of the first seven games of the year. His last six games he is 9/22, a .409 percentage. Putting that together with preseason gives me some optimism that the opening few games were the aberration, rather than the preseason being an aberration on the positive end.
One thing about his three point shoot is that while KO has gotten killed for a slow release, I don't think Sully is better on this end and might be worse. He seems to need a lot of time and space to get that shot off.
Overall I am really pleased with all three guys, KO, Smart and Sully. We know that Stevens looks at 2 and 3 man lineup combos and three out of the four best 3-man lineups over 100 minutes contain both Sully and KO.
And Sully in particular dominates the top performing 2 and 3 man combos across the board, being present in 4/5ths of each top 5 groups.
Per 100 possessions (takes minutes and pace into account so good for comparison)
Code: Select all
Season Age FG% 3P% 2P% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS ORtg DRtg
2012-13 20 .493 .200 .500 5.4 10.1 15.5 2.1 1.3 1.3 1.7 9.0 15.8 113 102
2013-14 21 .427 .269 .475 6.1 9.1 15.1 3.0 0.9 1.2 3.0 6.3 24.8 105 107
2014-15 22 .479 .275 .543 5.2 8.5 13.7 5.2 0.7 1.5 1.4 3.9 26.0 117 110
Most noteworthy is that his assists have gone way up year over year while he has cut his TOs to a very low level. Sully's three point percentage stinks again this year, but it's largely on account of the first seven games of the year. His last six games he is 9/22, a .409 percentage. Putting that together with preseason gives me some optimism that the opening few games were the aberration, rather than the preseason being an aberration on the positive end.
One thing about his three point shoot is that while KO has gotten killed for a slow release, I don't think Sully is better on this end and might be worse. He seems to need a lot of time and space to get that shot off.
Overall I am really pleased with all three guys, KO, Smart and Sully. We know that Stevens looks at 2 and 3 man lineup combos and three out of the four best 3-man lineups over 100 minutes contain both Sully and KO.
And Sully in particular dominates the top performing 2 and 3 man combos across the board, being present in 4/5ths of each top 5 groups.
Re: The 2 players we need to make the most strides
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Re: The 2 players we need to make the most strides
return2glory wrote:It may be a lot to ask for these two young players, but it would be nice to see them become better players from know til the end of this season. I'm keeping my eyes on these two and look for good things from both of them.
It's not too much to ask it is the expectation that young players become better as the season goes along. If they don't we have a problem. I have no doubt that Smart will grow as a player over the course of this season. Any rookie worth a damn does. Kelly can hopefully improve on defensive rotations as the season goes along. While part of defensive rotations is physical ability (quickness) that he will never be good at he can improve his anticipation which is equally important. This would help our defense quite a bit.
Sully has made a pretty nice leap so far this season but I don't think he is at his ceiling. He's still only 22 (90% sure on that) and is only in his 3rd year in the league. That's not where players hit their prime.
Bradley's 24 so he's entering his prime. I don't expect big improvements from Avery but he has consistently added to his game in the offseasons. He can still get better and seems to be the type who puts in the work to make it happen.
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Re: The 2 players we need to make the most strides
return2glory wrote:What keeps me interested in watching the current team is the player developments. For me, the 2 players we need to step up the most are KO and Smart. The reason I say this is because we pretty much already know what we have in Rondo, Bradley, Green, and Sully.
1. Rondo- the best passer in the game. Probably the best rebounder at his position. He struggles with scoring, at the line, and playing man to man defense.
2. Bradley- he will give us 13-16 PPG on 13-15 shots a game. Rarely goes to the line, a below average rebounder, passer, and ball handler. His defense has been slipping.
3. Green- he will give you 16-19 points a game, 5 rebounds, and gets to the line. He is capable of big games, but is also known for disappearing in other games.
4. Sully- though early in the season, he has made a leap. We knew he could be a double-double guy with increased minutes, and he has done that. He is also slowly improving on the defense end.
So that leaves KO and Smart. They currently play the positions that we need most help in, SG and Center. These two are the wild cards IMO, because they have the move room to improve from the 6 players I mentioned. I feel for now, barring any trades, KO and Smart are the main reasons if this team is going to stay the same or make improvements. We actually need these 2 guys to become better than average players.
The good thing is that both KO and Smart are hard workers and love the game. We know KO needs to improve his defense and insert himself more on the offensive side. He also needs to improve a littl more on his rebounding. Smart needs to work on his outside shot and driving more and finishing better near the rim. I would love for him to develope a floater.
It may be a lot to ask for these two young players, but it would be nice to see them become better players from know til the end of this season. I'm keeping my eyes on these two and look for good things from both of them.
Too bad Boston couldn't swap KO/Smart for Gobert/Exum
Re: The 2 players we need to make the most strides
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Re: The 2 players we need to make the most strides
GuyClinch wrote:Smart needs to show a ton more on offense. Defense at the PG spot is just not something you can count on. Is there ANY PG defender in the NBA right now? I mean a guy who you say - wow I want x on my team because of his great defense of PGs?
You don't want your PG to be like Dan Dickau - a turnstyle - but hoping a guy like Smart can play top level defense at the PG spot and make a career out of just that is foolish. Smart needs to be like C. Billups on the offensive side of the ball. Maybe he can do it - but his inability to flash into the paint has me officially worried.
I remember reading for YEARS on this forum about how Rondo was this game changing uber defender at the PG spot. By the numbers that was never true - he was for a year a decent steal guy.. but lets not go down that dead end road again with another PG. its extremely difficult in today's NBA to defend PGs. They are very quick and there is no hand checking.
We already have Bradley who makes his living defending PGs. (with some mixed results). Teams just aren't looking for PG stoppers. It's not a real catergory. We need superior defenders at the 3, 4, and 5 spots because those positions can really make a difference.
I think the defensive ideal with Smart is Tony Allen - a guy who can cover any perimeter position. Not a Rondo/AB type.
But yes, I agree, his offense needs to come a long way. I think the Billups aspiration is one he should avoid for the time being though - Chauncey was a great shooter. Smart not so much.
Smart is more like a bigger Andre Miller or a smaller Ron Artest - limited explosiveness and range but great power and a solid skill level. Tyreke Evans is another guy to emulate, though he's got a little more Ginobli-esque shiftiness in his game than Smart.
He should overpower smaller guards and outmaneuver bigger wings. Shooting over everyone isn't working.
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return2glory wrote:KO concerns me a little more in that he has a weak mental makeup. The guy lacks a killer instinct to ever become a star. He is way too passive. Buy he still has a chance to be a good player in a year or two.
Amen. KO needs to start taking some damn shots.
Its ridiculous that the guy would be in the game for 27 minutes and attempt 3 field goals. WTF man. The reason you're here in the first place is because you can get buckets, stop waiting for 100% open looks all the time. I'd rather Olynyk be taking a shot that involves a degree of adjustment than any of our wings or guards.
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KO needs to take a look at Dirk. If you want to have a good career and are not that strong defensively - you need to make it worth a teams trouble to put you on the floor. KO has to score - and score often to offset his defensive issues. Its not negotiable.
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What's really disappointing is that KO is taking less shots per 100 possessions than last year. Shoot the damn ball Kelly you're not out there to be a 10 ppg player.
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The guys who need to improve the most are Bradley and Rondo. I can't believe I am writing this, but Jeff Green has been our most consistent veteran on this team all year. Rondo has blatantly checked out of a few games (Memphis was egregious) and Bradley has had a real rough start to the year.
Guard play was supposed to be the strength of this team and instead it has been a major deficiency. That can change as we face some softer opponents over the next month, but Rondo and Bradley must step it up.
As for KO, I agree he has to step it up - he has to shoot often. Memphis basically didn't guard him at the 3 point line and he has to make teams pay for that. Even if he misses 2, 3, 4 shots early, he must keep shooting if he is open.
Guard play was supposed to be the strength of this team and instead it has been a major deficiency. That can change as we face some softer opponents over the next month, but Rondo and Bradley must step it up.
As for KO, I agree he has to step it up - he has to shoot often. Memphis basically didn't guard him at the 3 point line and he has to make teams pay for that. Even if he misses 2, 3, 4 shots early, he must keep shooting if he is open.
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FWIW, I don't think KO is weak, I just think he tries too hard to get his teammates looks. He's not selfish enough. Someone needs to infuse some Black Mamba in him. Just 1-2%, any more and nobody else in a Celtic uni might ever see a shot again!
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Gomes3PC wrote:The guys who need to improve the most are Bradley and Rondo. I can't believe I am writing this, but Jeff Green has been our most consistent veteran on this team all year. Rondo has blatantly checked out of a few games (Memphis was egregious) and Bradley has had a real rough start to the year.
Not seeing it. Rondo had a poor game against Memphis--but he also rolled his ankle in the previous game and was likely sore if not limited 2 days later. He gutted it out like he always does and didn't have a great game but saying he checked out is going a little too far. Not everyone gets the benefit of a stretcher and 3 weeks of rehab everytime they step on somebody's foot. Also, without the benefit of training camp, Rondo's just now getting his regular season legs.
If Green and Bradley were shooting 3s at the same clip they did last year we'd likely be 6 and 6 or better. Considering the quality of competition we're doing alright with lots of room to improve.
Players we need to make the most strides--Sully and Olynyk. We need Sully to get reps as a late-game go-to guy and we need Olynyk to embrace a shooting role. To pursue those goals, I'd tighten the rotation a bit, squeeze Bass out, give more time to Wallace, and run more pick-and-pop with Sully/Olynyk. Probably won't happen until December when hopefully Bass gets traded but this season should be all about riding Sully in the 4th and getting KO OK with shooting 10+ shots a night.
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Rondo also played poorly vs. PHI and Indy, and while he put up some pretty stats vs. Phoenix he was torched defensively by Bledsoe and Dragic. Sorry, but he doesn't get a free pass. His defense has resembled a matador most of this year despite a reduced minutes load.
Please don't compare Rondo with a minor rolled ankle to Smart nearly breaking his. That's absurd. The level of defense some people have for #9 here is crazy. Bottom line is Rondo wants to get paid like a superstar and right now he's not producing like one.
Please don't compare Rondo with a minor rolled ankle to Smart nearly breaking his. That's absurd. The level of defense some people have for #9 here is crazy. Bottom line is Rondo wants to get paid like a superstar and right now he's not producing like one.
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Rondo also played poorly vs. PHI and Indy, and while he put up some pretty stats vs. Phoenix he was torched defensively by Bledsoe and Dragic. Sorry, but he doesn't get a free pass. His defense has resembled a matador most of this year despite a reduced minutes load.
This. Little reason to expect much different play then his last healthy season. Rondo is a grown man now and fully developed. I wouldn't pay him max -but he will demand it. The basic problem with Rondo is the same as always fans and some GM's overvalue assists. Rondo will likely win the assist crown - but I would take CP3 anyday..
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Slartibartfast wrote:But yes, I agree, his offense needs to come a long way. I think the Billups aspiration is one he should avoid for the time being though - Chauncey was a great shooter. Smart not so much.
What would you peg as Billups' first great shooting season?
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What is the possibility that Rondo gets traded this year? I'm thinking of picking up Smart in fantasy if there is some chance he can be a starter.
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Re: The 2 players we need to make the most strides
Takingbaconback wrote:What is the possibility that Rondo gets traded this year? I'm thinking of picking up Smart in fantasy if there is some chance he can be a starter.
Not a good bet. I think you can do better with that roster spot.
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