Was LeBron Game 3 a good game or not?

jfs1000d · Post #1 » by **jfs1000d** » Mon May 25, 2015 3:31 pm

I don't have all the answers here, but I think this is the essence of the debate we've had for quite some time in hoops circles.

LeBron James, probably one of the more efficient modern players in NBA history, has been incredibly inefficient these playoffs.

He just had a game of 37 points, 18 rebounds 13 assists on seven turnovers and 37 shots.

That's not very good or efficient, and in these playoffs LeBron has gone from a 56.5 percent regular season shooter on 9 of 16 shooting to a volume 42.4 percent shooting on 9 of 21 shooting. He hasn't shot poorly, he's just taken incredible volume for him.

It's his worst shooting playoffs, by far since 07-08 against you know who. He's taken more shots, had the ball more, played a more dominant role, and has had about the same numbers. It's inefficient the way he is gaining his numbers.

Now, we all know how inefficient LeBRon has been, but he's also been brilliant.

I want to bring that up because we are in an analytics era, which I fully buy in, we have to be careful for going for efficiency for efficiency's sake.

This is an efficiency vs. effectiveness argument.

Efficiency is preferable to inefficiency because of resource usage, but, the end product does matter.

You can get so wrapped up in maximizing value (be it scoring, players, salary etc.) and become so efficient-minded that you think that's the goal. There is an effectiveness component that has to be considered.

The Hawks are the poster boys for putting it together with efficiency and parts. It does work. But they ran into an inefficient player who can produce an output that they can only dream of. What's the point of efficiency if you can't match output?

LeBron is expending an ungodly amount of resources to put those numbers up. It's not how you want to play, but is it effective?

I prefer this LeBron to the one who was paralyzed by efficiency and passing the ball to the point of dormancy in losses the Celtics and Mavericks in the playoffs.

I know some people are going nuts and say LeBron's game wasn't great because he took 37 shots to get those points.

He had a great game, he just wasn't efficient. There is a difference.

At the end of the day, I want a guy who can get his when he has to break the mold.

Dogen · Post #2 » by **Dogen** » Mon May 25, 2015 3:41 pm

3-0

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31to6 · Post #3 » by **31to6** » Mon May 25, 2015 4:11 pm

Ironically sans Kyrie and Love, LeBron's team around him is suckier than the last one he dragged to the finals as a Cav - and that's saying something!

truth18 · Post #4 » by **truth18** » Mon May 25, 2015 4:31 pm

31to6 wrote:Ironically sans Kyrie and Love, LeBron's team around him is suckier than the last one he dragged to the finals as a Cav - and that's saying something!

This. Dude is amazing. He'll get two back to back championships after this final loss.

Captain_Caveman · Post #5 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Mon May 25, 2015 4:50 pm

After a cold start, he was absolutely incredible yesterday, and put a total **** pile of a supporting cast on his back.

Guys are always less efficient in the playoffs because you aren't getting half of your games against lottery teams anymore.

To say nothing of the advances of team defenses.

GuyClinch · Post #6 » by **GuyClinch** » Mon May 25, 2015 5:46 pm

Atlanta's lack of star power is biting them in the butt. Surprised they made it this far.

celticsfan34 · Post #7 » by **celticsfan34** » Mon May 25, 2015 5:54 pm

31to6 wrote:Ironically sans Kyrie and Love, LeBron's team around him is suckier than the last one he dragged to the finals as a Cav - and that's saying something!

Oh I don't know about that. The '07 squad besides Lebron was pretty bad. You had more playoff experience on that team but this one is more athletic and better shooters. I'd rather have Mozgov and Thompson than Big Z and Varejao.

Anyways, the numbers James put up last night were pretty incredible even though it was against an injured Carroll and other players that can't guard him. His stats would've been even more ridiculous if he didn't start 0/10. But if the Hawks, without Korver and Horford can take them to OT and steal a road win, I'd hate to see what Golden State would do to them. I could see the Warriors win in a sweep or five games. They're just that good.

CeltsfanSinceBirth · Post #8 » by **CeltsfanSinceBirth** » Mon May 25, 2015 6:02 pm

Even if you take away his points, 18 boards and 13 assists is still very impressive. Those are the kinds of numbers that had many of us in love with Rondo. Great game by Lebron, but I could have done without him collapsing right after the buzzer sounded. So much drama with that guy.

Mr Loggins · Post #9 » by **Mr Loggins** » Mon May 25, 2015 6:16 pm

31to6 wrote:Ironically sans Kyrie and Love, LeBron's team around him is suckier than the last one he dragged to the finals as a Cav - and that's saying something!

Disagre with this. Even with Love and Kyrie, his current group

Mozgov
Thompson
Smith
Shumpert
Delladedova

is better than this...

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/cle/year/2007/seasontype/2/cleveland-cavaliers

Green89 · Post #10 » by **Green89** » Mon May 25, 2015 6:22 pm

Considering it went overtime, the fact that no other player scored more than 17, no other player had more than 5 assists, and only one other player hit double digits in rebounds (a guard - JR Smith), I don't think the feat is that spectacular. He definitely did a lot for his team, one that without him would be doomed, but I think the numbers are clearly a result of them not having ANYONE else to get stats in any of those 3 main categories.

truth18 · Post #11 » by **truth18** » Mon May 25, 2015 6:48 pm

Mr Loggins wrote:
31to6 wrote:Ironically sans Kyrie and Love, LeBron's team around him is suckier than the last one he dragged to the finals as a Cav - and that's saying something!

Disagre with this. Even with Love and Kyrie, his current group

Mozgov
Thompson
Smith
Shumpert
Delladedova

is better than this...

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/cle/year/2007/seasontype/2/cleveland-cavaliers

Lol for some reason I read that as dragged to the finals last year. Yeah no way is that 07 Cavs team better than this team.

chakdaddy · Post #12 » by **chakdaddy** » Mon May 25, 2015 9:59 pm

Those are the exact same sort of numbers that made everyone lick Jordan's *** and call him the greatest ever against Utah. Except mj used to have about 15 extra missed jumpers erased by phantom foul calls.

Gurton Buster · Post #13 » by **Gurton Buster** » Mon May 25, 2015 10:22 pm

I kinda like this inefficient Lebron. Taking shots and not deferring because he can't. Playing with supreme confidence and the killer instinct that was lacking in the past years. This is what people wanted him to become for all these years... You would like him to shoot a better percentage and cut down on the turnovers but his starting point guard is Matthew Deladedova LOL(is that his you spell it?). Still genuinely hate him though

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31to6 · Post #14 » by **31to6** » Mon May 25, 2015 10:30 pm

truth18 wrote:
Mr Loggins wrote:
31to6 wrote:Ironically sans Kyrie and Love, LeBron's team around him is suckier than the last one he dragged to the finals as a Cav - and that's saying something!

Disagre with this. Even with Love and Kyrie, his current group

Mozgov
Thompson
Smith
Shumpert
Delladedova

is better than this...

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/cle/year/2007/seasontype/2/cleveland-cavaliers

Lol for some reason I read that as dragged to the finals last year. Yeah no way is that 07 Cavs team better than this team.

Dunno - In '07 Zydrunas was still legit - 13/10 in the playoffs, slight bump over regular season, but he was just two years removed from making his second All-Star team. Drew Gooden was 11/8, doing what Tristan Thompson does now (slightly less bounce, but combine him with 22 minutes of Andy Varejao off the bench and the bigs advantage goes to 07, IMO).

In the backcourt is Delladedova's current playoff 7/2/3 on 38% shooting really all that? Sasha Pavlovic was slightly better than that back in 07.. and Boobie Gibson averaged 8 a game on 40% from 3, and Eric Snow did a few of the old vet sorts of things here and there.

But I'll admit I'd forgotten Larry Hughes was already so far into his decline by then. Smith and Shumpert have the edge there by a considerable margin, so I guess overall maybe it's a draw - though sans Kyrie and Love the current one lacks any depth whatsoever - but to say it's a lol comparison seems like prisoner of the moment thinking.

truth18 · Post #15 » by **truth18** » Mon May 25, 2015 10:41 pm

? I'm one of the few people on here calling them a fraudulent team, just saying that 07 team was really bad from what I remember.

ermocrate · Post #16 » by **ermocrate** » Fri May 29, 2015 2:07 pm

Today's NBA is subpar at best, LBJ would have not able to go to the finals in a good lvl year. That said it all depends on the games and the situations... You can be not efficient when the game doesn't count and the be a machine in the focal moments. I think LBJ has rise his game in those moments, in Miami the games where almost aways decided from Wade, Ray Allen or Mike Miller.