It's time to put Ainge on trial

[bucknersrevenge]

That's like asking what would you differently other than pouring water on the burning house. Obviously you pour water on it, but shouldn't you have remembered not to smoke in bed so you wouldn't have started the fire in the first place? It's easy to sit here and say Danny didn't tie up long-term money to Johnson and Jerebko plus signed Crowder to a reasonable deal............however, the fatal flaw was making the playoffs last season instead of making sure he pulled out all the stops to get a Top 7-8 pick at worst. Had he done that we would either have Winslow on this team right now or maybe even Okafor since he would have had a better draft pick to dangle in a trade with Philly.

Still not sure it matters that much. I don't believe going for the win is ever a fatal flaw. I like Winslow and Okafor but neither of them strike me, to borrow a phrase "transcendent players". In fact I'm not sure Stevens is interested in Okafor if he could've made that move based on what he looks for in his big men. Having said that, I do understand the point you're trying to make. I do like Winslow and if he was "that guy" I might even be on your side. I just don't think he is. I think it is just as likely that Young could bust out and contribute this year.

Winslow is not transcendent. And while I dont think he was "the" guy, I think he wouldve been "a" guy. A key piece to the new core of our team that will compete for our next real run. Young can, and probably will bust out and contribute this year. But we couldve had both of them.

And I'd rather have a Jahlil Okafor on the team than Brad Stevens. Its a players league, like it or not everyone

Well I definitely won't and can't argue preference. You and most people would've laughed me off the board but I wanted Dekker at 16. At some point cost always has to come face to face with value. Winslow is not going to be the last time they have an opportunity to acquire another piece. Who knows, maybe he comes along later. Danny wanted Amir Johnson 9 years ago but instead chose Orien Greene because he made a promise to Greene's agent to pick him if he was still there, not expecting Johnson to still be available.

[Froob]

Monroe chose the Bucks over Knicks and Lakers because Bucks were a playoff team last year. Guess making the playoffs does help.

Link me to his quote where he said that

[tweet]https://twitter.com/kbergcbs/status/616648384234029056[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/MrMichaelLee/status/616641961106272260[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/HowardBeck/status/616631199847555072[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/nypost_berman/status/616647661446406144[/tweet]

[SuperDeluxe]

Ainge sided with the anti-tankers because he foolishly believed he could simply trade up into the Top 10 of the draft with his oodles of useless mid to late 1st rd picks and thought he could have his cake and eat it to just like his army of apologists thought too. Guess what? HE. WAS. WRONG.

I didn't know you were also a mind reader. Kudos to you.

[Stadium5]

Monroe chose the Bucks over Knicks and Lakers because Bucks were a playoff team last year. Guess making the playoffs does help.

Link me to his quote where he said that

[tweet]https://twitter.com/kbergcbs/status/616648384234029056[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/MrMichaelLee/status/616641961106272260[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/HowardBeck/status/616631199847555072[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/nypost_berman/status/616647661446406144[/tweet]

"Ready to make the playoffs" not "because they made the playoffs"

They have Jabari, Giannis, Middleton, MCW, and now Monroe. Ofcourse they look better than the knicks and lakers right now

[ryaningf]

In no way is Young a comparable prospect to Winslow. The best hope with Young is that he blows up in SL, starts the season hot from deep, and we trade him mid-December in a package for somebody much much better.

Winslow is a foundational piece. Transcendental, well, there are like 3-5 of those types in any one year (depending on age, injuries, etc.) but Winslow can be the one of the 3 best players on a championship team and right now we have ZERO of those types of guys and that's why it's so hard to attract other top 3 pieces.

That's why holding on the Pierce was so key last time--you need a least one star to be in the game. That's why unexpected star development from Smart or Rozier would be huge. That's why keeping Rondo into this summer would have given us more cred in the free agent market (he would have had a much better year with us and not crashed and burned like he did in Dallas) than we had otherwise. Even if Rondo's diminished, he has cache and to a team like this you need somebody like that to get into the club.

[Froob]

In no way is Young a comparable prospect to Winslow. The best hope with Young is that he blows up in SL, starts the season hot from deep, and we trade him mid-December in a package for somebody much much better.

Winslow is a foundational piece. Transcendental, well, there are like 3-5 of those types in any one year (depending on age, injuries, etc.) but Winslow can be the one of the 3 best players on a championship team and right now we have ZERO of those types of guys and that's why it's so hard to attract other top 3 pieces.

That's why holding on the Pierce was so key last time--you need a least one star to be in the game. That's why unexpected star development from Smart or Rozier would be huge. That's why keeping Rondo into this summer would have given us more cred in the free agent market (he would have had a much better year with us and not crashed and burned like he did in Dallas) than we had otherwise. Even if Rondo's diminished, he has cache and to a team like this you need somebody like that to get into the club.

Already given up on Young? He's 19 years old and we knew he'd be raw. How in the world can you already be giving up on him?

[humblebum]

Lmao... These poetic tributes to Winslow are a joke.

Young could easily end up being a better pro. His offensive upside is in a different stratosphere from Winslow.

[bucknersrevenge]

In no way is Young a comparable prospect to Winslow. The best hope with Young is that he blows up in SL, starts the season hot from deep, and we trade him mid-December in a package for somebody much much better.

Winslow is a foundational piece. Transcendental, well, there are like 3-5 of those types in any one year (depending on age, injuries, etc.) but Winslow can be the one of the 3 best players on a championship team and right now we have ZERO of those types of guys and that's why it's so hard to attract other top 3 pieces.

That's why holding on the Pierce was so key last time--you need a least one star to be in the game. That's why unexpected star development from Smart or Rozier would be huge. That's why keeping Rondo into this summer would have given us more cred in the free agent market (he would have had a much better year with us and not crashed and burned like he did in Dallas) than we had otherwise. Even if Rondo's diminished, he has cache and to a team like this you need somebody like that to get into the club.

Already given up on Young? He's 19 years old and we knew he'd be raw. How in the world can you already be giving up on him?

I'm not really sure how that works either but whatever. Still not a fan of the term "transcendent" being just thrown around. Larry was transcendent. So was Magic and Michael. I have a hard time applying this term to Justise Winslow. Maybe I'm using a different definition perhaps.

[celticfan42487]

In no way is Young a comparable prospect to Winslow. The best hope with Young is that he blows up in SL, starts the season hot from deep, and we trade him mid-December in a package for somebody much much better.

Winslow is a foundational piece. Transcendental, well, there are like 3-5 of those types in any one year (depending on age, injuries, etc.) but Winslow can be the one of the 3 best players on a championship team and right now we have ZERO of those types of guys and that's why it's so hard to attract other top 3 pieces.

That's why holding on the Pierce was so key last time--you need a least one star to be in the game. That's why unexpected star development from Smart or Rozier would be huge. That's why keeping Rondo into this summer would have given us more cred in the free agent market (he would have had a much better year with us and not crashed and burned like he did in Dallas) than we had otherwise. Even if Rondo's diminished, he has cache and to a team like this you need somebody like that to get into the club.

Already given up on Young? He's 19 years old and we knew he'd be raw. How in the world can you already be giving up on him?

I'm not really sure how that works either but whatever. Still not a fan of the term "transcendent" being just thrown around. Larry was transcendent. So was Magic and Michael. I have a hard time applying this term to Justise Winslow. Maybe I'm using a different definition perhaps.

Yeah, the foundational piece sounds better. Could be called a building block for the franchise. Someone we can build around as apart of the answer to the next run.

Transcendent is far too high of an achievement to throw around. But it sounds better than "super star".

[goulardi]

In no way is Young a comparable prospect to Winslow. The best hope with Young is that he blows up in SL, starts the season hot from deep, and we trade him mid-December in a package for somebody much much better.

Winslow is a foundational piece. Transcendental, well, there are like 3-5 of those types in any one year (depending on age, injuries, etc.) but Winslow can be the one of the 3 best players on a championship team and right now we have ZERO of those types of guys and that's why it's so hard to attract other top 3 pieces.

That's why holding on the Pierce was so key last time--you need a least one star to be in the game. That's why unexpected star development from Smart or Rozier would be huge. That's why keeping Rondo into this summer would have given us more cred in the free agent market (he would have had a much better year with us and not crashed and burned like he did in Dallas) than we had otherwise. Even if Rondo's diminished, he has cache and to a team like this you need somebody like that to get into the club.

How can such and obvious transcendental foundation piece last until the 10th pick?

[goulardi]

Imagine if Rozier ends up being a great player? That could be their thinking when they took him at 16.

Imagine if me or you win the State Lottery tonight.

Improbably good things happening would be good things happening.

Imagine if we had a top 10 pick this year, and got that Rozier on top of it at pick 28. Or traded up throwing a few second rounders to go from 28 to 22 and get him.

Exactly. Tired of the excuses. There's one sure fire way to get a Top 10 pick.................you TANK on a lite level. There's a sure fire way to get a top 5 pick. You TANK on steroids. There's one sure fire way to draft more ham and eggers..........you foolishly make the playoffs so Lebron can stomp a new hole in your ass. Guess what one the genius Danny boy chose?

I think you're the only genius boy around here.

[jfs1000d]

Can we use logic?

The false dichotomy than tank = championship has been proven wrong.

Only 1 team wins an title.

I have a problem with the certainty of tankers. You aren't guaranteed anything. So, when's philly winning the nba title?


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[bucknersrevenge]

Imagine if me or you win the State Lottery tonight.

Improbably good things happening would be good things happening.

Imagine if we had a top 10 pick this year, and got that Rozier on top of it at pick 28. Or traded up throwing a few second rounders to go from 28 to 22 and get him.

Exactly. Tired of the excuses. There's one sure fire way to get a Top 10 pick.................you TANK on a lite level. There's a sure fire way to get a top 5 pick. You TANK on steroids. There's one sure fire way to draft more ham and eggers..........you foolishly make the playoffs so Lebron can stomp a new hole in your ass. Guess what one the genius Danny boy chose?

I think you're the only genius boy around here.

I think it's good to get your ass kicked sometimes. Reminds you that you have more work to do and more room to grow. And if you're of the personality, fuels the fire.

[jfs1000d]

In no way is Young a comparable prospect to Winslow. The best hope with Young is that he blows up in SL, starts the season hot from deep, and we trade him mid-December in a package for somebody much much better.

Winslow is a foundational piece. Transcendental, well, there are like 3-5 of those types in any one year (depending on age, injuries, etc.) but Winslow can be the one of the 3 best players on a championship team and right now we have ZERO of those types of guys and that's why it's so hard to attract other top 3 pieces.

That's why holding on the Pierce was so key last time--you need a least one star to be in the game. That's why unexpected star development from Smart or Rozier would be huge. That's why keeping Rondo into this summer would have given us more cred in the free agent market (he would have had a much better year with us and not crashed and burned like he did in Dallas) than we had otherwise. Even if Rondo's diminished, he has cache and to a team like this you need somebody like that to get into the club.

Already given up on Young? He's 19 years old and we knew he'd be raw. How in the world can you already be giving up on him?

I'm not really sure how that works either but whatever. Still not a fan of the term "transcendent" being just thrown around. Larry was transcendent. So was Magic and Michael. I have a hard time applying this term to Justise Winslow. Maybe I'm using a different definition perhaps.

Gotta agree here. Duncan was transcendent and everyone knew it. Lebron was and everyone knew it. Anthony Davis was and everyone knew it.

That's it. Justice Winslow isn't transcendent. Give me a break. No one in this draft is as good a prospect as Duncan, Lebron or davis.


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[Cyclical]

That's like asking what would you differently other than pouring water on the burning house. Obviously you pour water on it, but shouldn't you have remembered not to smoke in bed so you wouldn't have started the fire in the first place? It's easy to sit here and say Danny didn't tie up long-term money to Johnson and Jerebko plus signed Crowder to a reasonable deal............however, the fatal flaw was making the playoffs last season instead of making sure he pulled out all the stops to get a Top 7-8 pick at worst. Had he done that we would either have Winslow on this team right now or maybe even Okafor since he would have had a better draft pick to dangle in a trade with Philly.

And now we finally arrive at the point we already knew we're going to get to. This thread is Tanking Thread v 2.0 by the same usual suspects. Boring. I put this thread on trial.

Wrong. Ainge sided with the anti-tankers because he foolishly believed he could simply trade up into the Top 10 of the draft with his oodles of useless mid to late 1st rd picks and thought he could have his cake and eat it to just like his army of apologists thought too. Guess what? HE. WAS. WRONG. Jordan told him to screw, Riley would have laughed if he even called and thus we were stuck drafting another undersized guard and late 1st rders. That's reality. Deal with it and stop acting like that wasn't what happened. He gambled and he lost. So now we are on to year 3 of this "rebuild" and still don't have a young future STUD that we can honestly say will turn into something potentially great.

And, please, spare me the Duke provides busts crap. Of course they do. However, Kyrie Irving says hello............so stop acting like Okafor and Winslow are sure fire busts.

"Sided with the anti-takers"? As in people on this board? No. Ainge, like any sane businessman takes some minor gambles knowing full well that there are many possible outcomes. CAPITAL letters and emphatic proclamations are fun but it's only July 2nd. This is all a bit dramatic, not to mention self righteous. We'd love to hear some real time solutions besides drama queen statements like put Ainge on trial for signing Johnson and Jerebko.

[humblebum]

Yikes this board has gotten near unreadable. So much fail in every direction, even from formerly seemingly respectable analysts.

People were just propping up all these ridiculous expectations or making wrong headed predictions and now when those things have fallen through there is all this gnashing of teeth and wailing.

The team decided that Thomas-Crowder-Jerebko was more valuable than tanking for Winslow, thought they could slip one past MJ and failed. But let's please stop acting like Winslow is a better prospect than Smart. Smart would've been drafted earlier than Justise in this draft too.

[Squigglepuffin]

Casual fans lose interest with that. People that realize why we're tanking will keep watching and stay loyal. If we consistently get bounced 1st round every year then plenty of fans will grow tired of it and stop watching because it will become the norm year after year. Ainge already has plenty of false promises, same with Wyc.

Free agents only look at the future. They don't really care about some team they weren't on that got knocked out of the 2nd round. They, along with the agents, look at the current roster and the potential future of that team, making sure pending their players age, is the best suitor for whatever theyre looking for. Whether it be money, winning, or both

I'm just super curious - seconding the previous question - what would u have done differently this off-season?

That's like asking what would you differently other than pouring water on the burning house. Obviously you pour water on it, but shouldn't you have remembered not to smoke in bed so you wouldn't have started the fire in the first place? It's easy to sit here and say Danny didn't tie up long-term money to Johnson and Jerebko plus signed Crowder to a reasonable deal............however, the fatal flaw was making the playoffs last season instead of making sure he pulled out all the stops to get a Top 7-8 pick at worst. Had he done that we would either have Winslow on this team right now or maybe even Okafor since he would have had a better draft pick to dangle in a trade with Philly.

Wow.

Let's burn Ainge at the stake because the team made the playoffs in the second year of a rebuild? That single situation has made you want to call for his head? That's it? You can't be serious.

Fickle fans.

[OldCeltics]

Ainge needs to get slapped in the face for failing this badly this offseason.

[BannersOnly]

I'm just super curious - seconding the previous question - what would u have done differently this off-season?

That's like asking what would you differently other than pouring water on the burning house. Obviously you pour water on it, but shouldn't you have remembered not to smoke in bed so you wouldn't have started the fire in the first place? It's easy to sit here and say Danny didn't tie up long-term money to Johnson and Jerebko plus signed Crowder to a reasonable deal............however, the fatal flaw was making the playoffs last season instead of making sure he pulled out all the stops to get a Top 7-8 pick at worst. Had he done that we would either have Winslow on this team right now or maybe even Okafor since he would have had a better draft pick to dangle in a trade with Philly.

Wow.

Let's burn Ainge at the stake because the team made the playoffs in the second year of a rebuild? That single situation has made you want to call for his head? That's it? You can't be serious.

Fickle fans.

I can give two **** about making the playoffs. I care about winning BANNERS.............thus my screenname. I'm not into short term gratification. Period. I'd rather starve for 3 years and eat filet mignon and lobster for the following 5 years then eat chuck steak for the next 10 years. I really don't understand why people like you think it's smart business to make the playoffs in a pathetic Eastern Conference with sub .500 record with a roster full of Ford Escorts(for the whiners who think I say ham and eggers too much). Is that something to tout??????? It's like a high school jock bragging about the broads he got in high school when 5 years later he's pumping gas and the geeks who pulled no ass are now living on the f'n ocean with DIMES and driving Ferrari's and Bentley's around town. Cmon.........it's all about the big picture. Enough with the excuses and sugar coating already. Our best player is a 5-8 gunner guard who is a defensive liability for cris sakes!

[BannersOnly]

And I'm tired of the people who act as if people like myself aren't happy unless we win the title every year. Wrong. I am happy if my team is either legitimately in the hunt or legitimately rebuilding or building towards winning a championship down the road CORRECTLY. I can more then hand a couple of 20 WIN seasons if it means we will be getting Top 3-5 picks and drafting STUDS. Just like I can more then handle coming up short in the playoffs with a team like the Clippers, Cavs or Rockets if I have faith in the GM to continue to make good moves and improve the club in hopes of getting over the hump. I understand title are hard to win. However, I simply can't handle a GM that repeatedly makes stupid decisions, tanks half assed and throws money around to ham and eggers(eff it, I LOVE the word and it applies) while we have no legitimate plan to acquire a STUD to get the effin ball rolling.

You cannot win a race with a **** horse. Period. You can have the greatest jockey and owner and trainer in the world and it will mean nothing without the right HORSE. So stop it with the Stevens hype, Ainge hype and Wyc hype. Like Stadium5 said, it's an effin player's league and always has been and always will be.