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No Longer Just Fultz-am and Jetsom: Celtics Hit the Big Time in the Draft. 2017 Draft thread 4.0.

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Re: No Longer Just Fultz-am and Jetsom: Celtics Hit the Big Time in the Draft. 2017 Draft thread 4.0. 

Post#21 » by Andrew McCeltic » Tue May 23, 2017 10:32 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:
The eye test, and stats, show a star, even though you've got the combo of inferior competition and inferior teammates. He looks better, in that context, than Jaylen Brown did, who also had mediocre help and bad spacing. So you can assume he's got at least as much potential as Jaylen offensively.


He's got considerably more potential than Jaylen offensively. Much, much, much more advanced shot creator, shooter, passer and handler. Jaylen vastly more dependent on transition and bad defenders to score - more like Ball in that respect.

The one thing Jaylen has on Fultz offensively is his first step operating out of the mid-post, but that's less useful for a perimeter guy in a PNR dominated league.


Yeah, I was just setting a floor for Markelle, I think he has more ability right now.

I would say, given Brown's athleticism and work ethic, he *could* make a leap over this summer or next - but I thought the same about Smart and it took longer. He shows flashes of star moves, but he has to drill his handles and footwork and then link them to his instincts, reactions. But he has the potential, like TMac did, or Butler, for sudden exponential growth.

Agree about Fultz' shooting and handles, but he's not Kyrie or Rose with the ball, either.

Good point about Kidd's D, Lonzo hasn't shown that.

Ball just reminds me of Bill Simmons' take on Smart a few drafts ago - said he had the work ethic and drove that he would find a way to be good. Marcus' development is bearing that out. I feel the same way about Lonzo- not his intensity but his poise - he's just a composed, winning player, and that intangible is going to make up for a lot over time. I don't think he's, like, Adam Morrison.
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Re: No Longer Just Fultz-am and Jetsom: Celtics Hit the Big Time in the Draft. 2017 Draft thread 4.0. 

Post#22 » by Slartibartfast » Tue May 23, 2017 11:02 pm

Andrew McCeltic wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:
The eye test, and stats, show a star, even though you've got the combo of inferior competition and inferior teammates. He looks better, in that context, than Jaylen Brown did, who also had mediocre help and bad spacing. So you can assume he's got at least as much potential as Jaylen offensively.


He's got considerably more potential than Jaylen offensively. Much, much, much more advanced shot creator, shooter, passer and handler. Jaylen vastly more dependent on transition and bad defenders to score - more like Ball in that respect.

The one thing Jaylen has on Fultz offensively is his first step operating out of the mid-post, but that's less useful for a perimeter guy in a PNR dominated league.


Yeah, I was just setting a floor for Markelle, I think he has more ability right now.

I would say, given Brown's athleticism and work ethic, he *could* make a leap over this summer or next - but I thought the same about Smart and it took longer. He shows flashes of star moves, but he has to drill his handles and footwork and then link them to his instincts, reactions. But he has the potential, like TMac did, or Butler, for sudden exponential growth.

Agree about Fultz' shooting and handles, but he's not Kyrie or Rose with the ball, either.

Good point about Kidd's D, Lonzo hasn't shown that.

Ball just reminds me of Bill Simmons' take on Smart a few drafts ago - said he had the work ethic and drove that he would find a way to be good. Marcus' development is bearing that out. I feel the same way about Lonzo- not his intensity but his poise - he's just a composed, winning player, and that intangible is going to make up for a lot over time. I don't think he's, like, Adam Morrison.


Marcus' skill/player development has actually pretty much flatlined. He's always been a big moments player.

If Lonzo follows Marcus' path - a guy who never gets over his original skill and physical limitations but contributes from day 1 - I think people are going to be pretty disappointed in him.
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Re: No Longer Just Fultz-am and Jetsom: Celtics Hit the Big Time in the Draft. 2017 Draft thread 4.0. 

Post#23 » by Andrew McCeltic » Tue May 23, 2017 11:41 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
Marcus' skill/player development has actually pretty much flatlined. He's always been a big moments player.

If Lonzo follows Marcus' path - a guy who never gets over his original skill and physical limitations but contributes from day 1 - I think people are going to be pretty disappointed in him.


You think he's flat-lined, really? I see a jumper coming along slowly, developing midrange point guard skill, both in creating with little actions for teammates and for himself, improved ability to finish at the rim. Some potential as a bully-ball low-post player. Not fooled by his big game against Cleveland, that's not who he is now, maybe ever. But the Kyle Lowry comparisons as a scorer seem reasonable, a slow to develop offensive player. (I know Lowry was always a poor man's Rondo as a distributor).

Remember Ron Artest didn't average more than 15 points a game until his fifth year in the league.

I'll even see you all that and raise you, Kidd-Gilchrist still has a shot to be a two-way star.
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Re: No Longer Just Fultz-am and Jetsom: Celtics Hit the Big Time in the Draft. 2017 Draft thread 4.0. 

Post#24 » by Andrew McCeltic » Tue May 23, 2017 11:41 pm

FWIW, I think Lonzo's floor is being to offense what Smart is to defense. But never rising above it would be a disappointment.
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Re: No Longer Just Fultz-am and Jetsom: Celtics Hit the Big Time in the Draft. 2017 Draft thread 4.0. 

Post#25 » by ViperGTS » Tue May 23, 2017 11:47 pm

DK-All Day wrote:
truth18 wrote:Fultz is ashamed of you all:

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Mama, I made it.


I made a list!!

Truthfully, I don't know what these lists mean?
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Re: No Longer Just Fultz-am and Jetsom: Celtics Hit the Big Time in the Draft. 2017 Draft thread 4.0. 

Post#26 » by Gomes3PC » Wed May 24, 2017 12:35 am

Andrew McCeltic wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Marcus' skill/player development has actually pretty much flatlined. He's always been a big moments player.

If Lonzo follows Marcus' path - a guy who never gets over his original skill and physical limitations but contributes from day 1 - I think people are going to be pretty disappointed in him.


You think he's flat-lined, really? I see a jumper coming along slowly, developing midrange point guard skill, both in creating with little actions for teammates and for himself, improved ability to finish at the rim. Some potential as a bully-ball low-post player. Not fooled by his big game against Cleveland, that's not who he is now, maybe ever. But the Kyle Lowry comparisons as a scorer seem reasonable, a slow to develop offensive player. (I know Lowry was always a poor man's Rondo as a distributor).

Remember Ron Artest didn't average more than 15 points a game until his fifth year in the league.

I'll even see you all that and raise you, Kidd-Gilchrist still has a shot to be a two-way star.

Smart's jumper has actually regressed. From 15-29 feet he was a 31% shooter this year; as a rookie he shot 34% from that distance.
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Re: No Longer Just Fultz-am and Jetsom: Celtics Hit the Big Time in the Draft. 2017 Draft thread 4.0. 

Post#27 » by Jingles » Wed May 24, 2017 2:26 am

I hope people are watching closely tonight. This is why you draft Fultz and never look back or think twice. Get the guy who can turn an entire game around with his offense.
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Re: No Longer Just Fultz-am and Jetsom: Celtics Hit the Big Time in the Draft. 2017 Draft thread 4.0. 

Post#28 » by 165bows » Wed May 24, 2017 3:04 am

Slartibartfast wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
He's got considerably more potential than Jaylen offensively. Much, much, much more advanced shot creator, shooter, passer and handler. Jaylen vastly more dependent on transition and bad defenders to score - more like Ball in that respect.

The one thing Jaylen has on Fultz offensively is his first step operating out of the mid-post, but that's less useful for a perimeter guy in a PNR dominated league.


Yeah, I was just setting a floor for Markelle, I think he has more ability right now.

I would say, given Brown's athleticism and work ethic, he *could* make a leap over this summer or next - but I thought the same about Smart and it took longer. He shows flashes of star moves, but he has to drill his handles and footwork and then link them to his instincts, reactions. But he has the potential, like TMac did, or Butler, for sudden exponential growth.

Agree about Fultz' shooting and handles, but he's not Kyrie or Rose with the ball, either.

Good point about Kidd's D, Lonzo hasn't shown that.

Ball just reminds me of Bill Simmons' take on Smart a few drafts ago - said he had the work ethic and drove that he would find a way to be good. Marcus' development is bearing that out. I feel the same way about Lonzo- not his intensity but his poise - he's just a composed, winning player, and that intangible is going to make up for a lot over time. I don't think he's, like, Adam Morrison.


Marcus' skill/player development has actually pretty much flatlined. He's always been a big moments player.

If Lonzo follows Marcus' path - a guy who never gets over his original skill and physical limitations but contributes from day 1 - I think people are going to be pretty disappointed in him.

Smart being able to meet a baseline of offensive ability or not is pretty huge for this team direction-wise.

Early returns say no, but then again all he needs to do is reach passable levels on offense. The bar isn't that high for him.
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Re: No Longer Just Fultz-am and Jetsom: Celtics Hit the Big Time in the Draft. 2017 Draft thread 4.0. 

Post#29 » by Green89 » Wed May 24, 2017 3:24 am

soxfan2003 wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:Other point about Fultz - raw talent, but doing a lot with his superior athleticism - will still have some of that in the NBA, can rise up and shoot over people - but doesn't have a ton of "counters".

You can see a breakdown here - https://fansided.com/2017/05/10/markelle-fultz-ball-handling-kyrie-irving-nba-draft/ - that's praising him - he has a huge variety of dribble moves, but he tends to make *one*, go toward the basket, and then get a shot off with his athleticism or length. If he had a killer move and then another one once he's into the teeth of the defense, he could be incredible.

He's smooth, but the "playground" style is going to be marginally less effective against NBA defenses - his moves may not always work, or when they do, he may have less daylight getting to the rim or around rim protectors.

So that'd be my concern about how well or quickly or without adjustments his game will "translate". Fultz may have to add new skills. Ball, I think, is just going to have to learn NBA timing.


As long as Fultz adds a very good 3 point shot and has enough disciple to not take too many bad shots, he will probably be very good to excellent on offense but those are two huge caveats. Kobe for all of his very good shooting ability as demonstrated by his free throw percentages over the years, never really had a consistent real good NBA 3 point shot and Lebron has been up and down as well. Jordan for all of his midrange excellence was never much of an NBA 3 point shooter with the longer 3 point line at least. Admittedly, different era with not as much emphasis on the 3 but some good college level 3 point shooter never really developed NBA 3.

I may be wrong and just misjudging Ball's athleticism but I do see him as the less risky pick then Fultz if the desire is to have a player that will help the typical team win more games early in his career. If both players, improve by 15% with where they are now which I suspect is the minimum one could expect given their ages, I suspect Ball is the actual better player for helping the typical NBA team win games.

You take the younger Fultz under the belief he will realize most of his upside but it is hardly a sure thing.

I say this since from what I can see, Ball is very comfortable shooting from NBA 3 point distance which isn't surprising since his father has probably programmed him to do so since around 6 years old. Maybe his weird shot is from taking NBA level 3's at too early of an age but his release is according to what I read still very quick and given his size, I doubt its blocked much at all. Given his height and the fact he won't launch them as often as Curry, I just don't see NBA defenses blocking him much at all.


He shoots a low arcing shot from his shoulder. He's going to get blocked a lot.
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Re: No Longer Just Fultz-am and Jetsom: Celtics Hit the Big Time in the Draft. 2017 Draft thread 4.0. 

Post#30 » by Jingles » Wed May 24, 2017 3:48 am

Green89 wrote:
soxfan2003 wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:Other point about Fultz - raw talent, but doing a lot with his superior athleticism - will still have some of that in the NBA, can rise up and shoot over people - but doesn't have a ton of "counters".

You can see a breakdown here - https://fansided.com/2017/05/10/markelle-fultz-ball-handling-kyrie-irving-nba-draft/ - that's praising him - he has a huge variety of dribble moves, but he tends to make *one*, go toward the basket, and then get a shot off with his athleticism or length. If he had a killer move and then another one once he's into the teeth of the defense, he could be incredible.

He's smooth, but the "playground" style is going to be marginally less effective against NBA defenses - his moves may not always work, or when they do, he may have less daylight getting to the rim or around rim protectors.

So that'd be my concern about how well or quickly or without adjustments his game will "translate". Fultz may have to add new skills. Ball, I think, is just going to have to learn NBA timing.


As long as Fultz adds a very good 3 point shot and has enough disciple to not take too many bad shots, he will probably be very good to excellent on offense but those are two huge caveats. Kobe for all of his very good shooting ability as demonstrated by his free throw percentages over the years, never really had a consistent real good NBA 3 point shot and Lebron has been up and down as well. Jordan for all of his midrange excellence was never much of an NBA 3 point shooter with the longer 3 point line at least. Admittedly, different era with not as much emphasis on the 3 but some good college level 3 point shooter never really developed NBA 3.

I may be wrong and just misjudging Ball's athleticism but I do see him as the less risky pick then Fultz if the desire is to have a player that will help the typical team win more games early in his career. If both players, improve by 15% with where they are now which I suspect is the minimum one could expect given their ages, I suspect Ball is the actual better player for helping the typical NBA team win games.

You take the younger Fultz under the belief he will realize most of his upside but it is hardly a sure thing.

I say this since from what I can see, Ball is very comfortable shooting from NBA 3 point distance which isn't surprising since his father has probably programmed him to do so since around 6 years old. Maybe his weird shot is from taking NBA level 3's at too early of an age but his release is according to what I read still very quick and given his size, I doubt its blocked much at all. Given his height and the fact he won't launch them as often as Curry, I just don't see NBA defenses blocking him much at all.


He shoots a low arcing shot from his shoulder. He's going to get blocked a lot.


Hitting NBA 3s in college always looks super-impressive because it's so far behind the line and usually the defenders don't really venture out that far (gotta clog that paint!). Really curious to see what he can do when NBA-level defenders are out there on his left hip, or when a quick big with a 7' wingspan is switched on him and he can't shoot over him or dribble past him.

I think overall he'll be fine, I'm much more of a Fultz-lover than Ball-hater, but Ball just needs to show me more at this point, which I guess is why he won't be the #1 pick.
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Re: No Longer Just Fultz-am and Jetsom: Celtics Hit the Big Time in the Draft. 2017 Draft thread 4.0. 

Post#31 » by jfs1000d » Wed May 24, 2017 3:49 am

165bows wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:
Yeah, I was just setting a floor for Markelle, I think he has more ability right now.

I would say, given Brown's athleticism and work ethic, he *could* make a leap over this summer or next - but I thought the same about Smart and it took longer. He shows flashes of star moves, but he has to drill his handles and footwork and then link them to his instincts, reactions. But he has the potential, like TMac did, or Butler, for sudden exponential growth.

Agree about Fultz' shooting and handles, but he's not Kyrie or Rose with the ball, either.

Good point about Kidd's D, Lonzo hasn't shown that.

Ball just reminds me of Bill Simmons' take on Smart a few drafts ago - said he had the work ethic and drove that he would find a way to be good. Marcus' development is bearing that out. I feel the same way about Lonzo- not his intensity but his poise - he's just a composed, winning player, and that intangible is going to make up for a lot over time. I don't think he's, like, Adam Morrison.


Marcus' skill/player development has actually pretty much flatlined. He's always been a big moments player.

If Lonzo follows Marcus' path - a guy who never gets over his original skill and physical limitations but contributes from day 1 - I think people are going to be pretty disappointed in him.

Smart being able to meet a baseline of offensive ability or not is pretty huge for this team direction-wise.

Early returns say no, but then again all he needs to do is reach passable levels on offense. The bar isn't that high for him.


Smart gotta get to be 35% from 3 and 40-41% from the floor with his good FT shooting. If he does that, he is an absolute terror of a role player. He just can't shoot 28% from 3 and 35% overall. That's not acceptable enough as an offensive player.
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Re: No Longer Just Fultz-am and Jetsom: Celtics Hit the Big Time in the Draft. 2017 Draft thread 4.0. 

Post#32 » by Banks2Pierce » Wed May 24, 2017 3:51 am

Jingles wrote:I hope people are watching closely tonight. This is why you draft Fultz and never look back or think twice. Get the guy who can turn an entire game around with his offense.


That's kind of an interesting one because I would be sorta disappointed if he only got as good as Kyrie.
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Re: No Longer Just Fultz-am and Jetsom: Celtics Hit the Big Time in the Draft. 2017 Draft thread 4.0. 

Post#33 » by Asian Celtic » Wed May 24, 2017 4:19 am

Green89 wrote:
soxfan2003 wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:Other point about Fultz - raw talent, but doing a lot with his superior athleticism - will still have some of that in the NBA, can rise up and shoot over people - but doesn't have a ton of "counters".

You can see a breakdown here - https://fansided.com/2017/05/10/markelle-fultz-ball-handling-kyrie-irving-nba-draft/ - that's praising him - he has a huge variety of dribble moves, but he tends to make *one*, go toward the basket, and then get a shot off with his athleticism or length. If he had a killer move and then another one once he's into the teeth of the defense, he could be incredible.

He's smooth, but the "playground" style is going to be marginally less effective against NBA defenses - his moves may not always work, or when they do, he may have less daylight getting to the rim or around rim protectors.

So that'd be my concern about how well or quickly or without adjustments his game will "translate". Fultz may have to add new skills. Ball, I think, is just going to have to learn NBA timing.


As long as Fultz adds a very good 3 point shot and has enough disciple to not take too many bad shots, he will probably be very good to excellent on offense but those are two huge caveats. Kobe for all of his very good shooting ability as demonstrated by his free throw percentages over the years, never really had a consistent real good NBA 3 point shot and Lebron has been up and down as well. Jordan for all of his midrange excellence was never much of an NBA 3 point shooter with the longer 3 point line at least. Admittedly, different era with not as much emphasis on the 3 but some good college level 3 point shooter never really developed NBA 3.

I may be wrong and just misjudging Ball's athleticism but I do see him as the less risky pick then Fultz if the desire is to have a player that will help the typical team win more games early in his career. If both players, improve by 15% with where they are now which I suspect is the minimum one could expect given their ages, I suspect Ball is the actual better player for helping the typical NBA team win games.

You take the younger Fultz under the belief he will realize most of his upside but it is hardly a sure thing.

I say this since from what I can see, Ball is very comfortable shooting from NBA 3 point distance which isn't surprising since his father has probably programmed him to do so since around 6 years old. Maybe his weird shot is from taking NBA level 3's at too early of an age but his release is according to what I read still very quick and given his size, I doubt its blocked much at all. Given his height and the fact he won't launch them as often as Curry, I just don't see NBA defenses blocking him much at all.


He shoots a low arcing shot from his shoulder. He's going to get blocked a lot.


At this point i'd choose Fultz left hand over Lonzo's shooting mechanics. He's a talent but what he just showed by trying to play for the Lakers only made me root for him to be picked elsewhere.
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Re: No Longer Just Fultz-am and Jetsom: Celtics Hit the Big Time in the Draft. 2017 Draft thread 4.0. 

Post#34 » by soxfan2003 » Wed May 24, 2017 4:20 am

Green89 wrote:
soxfan2003 wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:Other point about Fultz - raw talent, but doing a lot with his superior athleticism - will still have some of that in the NBA, can rise up and shoot over people - but doesn't have a ton of "counters".

You can see a breakdown here - https://fansided.com/2017/05/10/markelle-fultz-ball-handling-kyrie-irving-nba-draft/ - that's praising him - he has a huge variety of dribble moves, but he tends to make *one*, go toward the basket, and then get a shot off with his athleticism or length. If he had a killer move and then another one once he's into the teeth of the defense, he could be incredible.

He's smooth, but the "playground" style is going to be marginally less effective against NBA defenses - his moves may not always work, or when they do, he may have less daylight getting to the rim or around rim protectors.

So that'd be my concern about how well or quickly or without adjustments his game will "translate". Fultz may have to add new skills. Ball, I think, is just going to have to learn NBA timing.


As long as Fultz adds a very good 3 point shot and has enough disciple to not take too many bad shots, he will probably be very good to excellent on offense but those are two huge caveats. Kobe for all of his very good shooting ability as demonstrated by his free throw percentages over the years, never really had a consistent real good NBA 3 point shot and Lebron has been up and down as well. Jordan for all of his midrange excellence was never much of an NBA 3 point shooter with the longer 3 point line at least. Admittedly, different era with not as much emphasis on the 3 but some good college level 3 point shooter never really developed NBA 3.

I may be wrong and just misjudging Ball's athleticism but I do see him as the less risky pick then Fultz if the desire is to have a player that will help the typical team win more games early in his career. If both players, improve by 15% with where they are now which I suspect is the minimum one could expect given their ages, I suspect Ball is the actual better player for helping the typical NBA team win games.

You take the younger Fultz under the belief he will realize most of his upside but it is hardly a sure thing.

I say this since from what I can see, Ball is very comfortable shooting from NBA 3 point distance which isn't surprising since his father has probably programmed him to do so since around 6 years old. Maybe his weird shot is from taking NBA level 3's at too early of an age but his release is according to what I read still very quick and given his size, I doubt its blocked much at all. Given his height and the fact he won't launch them as often as Curry, I just don't see NBA defenses blocking him much at all.


He shoots a low arcing shot from his shoulder. He's going to get blocked a lot.


I am not convinced he will at least when guarded by point guards since most of them will be shorter than Ball. I forget where I read it but the speed of Ball's shot release I don't think is much slower than Klay T. of the Warriors.

I realize Ball isn't super quick but he is much quicker than Klay T so if you throw the typical SG on him, he may be able to get passed him with his dribbling ability.

How many NBA players have their 3 point shots really blocked all that often? It really is a small amount since its so risky to try to do since given the 3 free throws. Unless someone is just destroying another team with the 3 like a Curry, the goal appears to just be to try to contest the shots enough so its a miss but not even to block it if you are a typical defender at least.

If I was going to question Ball's 3 point shot, it would be such mechanics making it harder to develop into a truly great 3 point shooter but obviously a few near great shooters at least have had weird shots.
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Re: No Longer Just Fultz-am and Jetsom: Celtics Hit the Big Time in the Draft. 2017 Draft thread 4.0. 

Post#35 » by LarryBirdsFingr » Wed May 24, 2017 4:57 am

Fruit Pastilles wrote:

Image

not sure i would worry too much about this fraud video, but he does have some good points about the rest of the draft. I honestly wouldnt be shocked at all if danny selects a different player
I don't believe in statistics. There are too many factors that can't be measured. You can't measure a ballplayer's heart. -Red Auerbach

Marcus Smart is an underrated shooter
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Re: No Longer Just Fultz-am and Jetsom: Celtics Hit the Big Time in the Draft. 2017 Draft thread 4.0. 

Post#36 » by ViperGTS » Wed May 24, 2017 5:54 am

LarryBirdsFingr wrote:
Fruit Pastilles wrote:

Image

not sure i would worry too much about this fraud video, but he does have some good points about the rest of the draft. I honestly wouldnt be shocked at all if danny selects a different player


Guy is full of ****. Dude got cut from varsity multiple times and worked his ass off to get better. If Danny picks someone else it's a twofold problem. 1, he didn't take the clear cut number one. 2, he will infinitely make it harder for his team to compete while Philly dances on the grave of Ainges folly and drafts the dude they are desperate for.

So if Danny even thinks of picking someone else, he needs to trade the pick. Period.
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Re: No Longer Just Fultz-am and Jetsom: Celtics Hit the Big Time in the Draft. 2017 Draft thread 4.0. 

Post#37 » by TheOGJabroni » Wed May 24, 2017 12:24 pm

Trying as hard as I can to stay out of these types of threads and reading too much about Fultz until the season is over but it's damn hard. Dude looks so good.
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Re: No Longer Just Fultz-am and Jetsom: Celtics Hit the Big Time in the Draft. 2017 Draft thread 4.0. 

Post#38 » by BannerStatus » Wed May 24, 2017 12:24 pm

soxfan2003 wrote:
Green89 wrote:
soxfan2003 wrote:
As long as Fultz adds a very good 3 point shot and has enough disciple to not take too many bad shots, he will probably be very good to excellent on offense but those are two huge caveats. Kobe for all of his very good shooting ability as demonstrated by his free throw percentages over the years, never really had a consistent real good NBA 3 point shot and Lebron has been up and down as well. Jordan for all of his midrange excellence was never much of an NBA 3 point shooter with the longer 3 point line at least. Admittedly, different era with not as much emphasis on the 3 but some good college level 3 point shooter never really developed NBA 3.

I may be wrong and just misjudging Ball's athleticism but I do see him as the less risky pick then Fultz if the desire is to have a player that will help the typical team win more games early in his career. If both players, improve by 15% with where they are now which I suspect is the minimum one could expect given their ages, I suspect Ball is the actual better player for helping the typical NBA team win games.

You take the younger Fultz under the belief he will realize most of his upside but it is hardly a sure thing.

I say this since from what I can see, Ball is very comfortable shooting from NBA 3 point distance which isn't surprising since his father has probably programmed him to do so since around 6 years old. Maybe his weird shot is from taking NBA level 3's at too early of an age but his release is according to what I read still very quick and given his size, I doubt its blocked much at all. Given his height and the fact he won't launch them as often as Curry, I just don't see NBA defenses blocking him much at all.


He shoots a low arcing shot from his shoulder. He's going to get blocked a lot.


I am not convinced he will at least when guarded by point guards since most of them will be shorter than Ball. I forget where I read it but the speed of Ball's shot release I don't think is much slower than Klay T. of the Warriors.

I realize Ball isn't super quick but he is much quicker than Klay T so if you throw the typical SG on him, he may be able to get passed him with his dribbling ability.

How many NBA players have their 3 point shots really blocked all that often? It really is a small amount since its so risky to try to do since given the 3 free throws. Unless someone is just destroying another team with the 3 like a Curry, the goal appears to just be to try to contest the shots enough so its a miss but not even to block it if you are a typical defender at least.

If I was going to question Ball's 3 point shot, it would be such mechanics making it harder to develop into a truly great 3 point shooter but obviously a few near great shooters at least have had weird shots.


I don't even think the main issue is his shot necessarily getting "blocked" all the time, it's a matter of can he even get it off with those mechanics and a NBA average-good perimiter defender on him. I think he has to pass out of it or at least get off an ugly, off balance shot withouth it getting blocked which you would think would really impact his %.

I dunno, as someone said above, I'm not a Ball hater, more of on the Fultz bandwagon. I think Ball will be a fine NBA point guard, I just don't know that I'd take him #2 when there are higher ceiling possible star-level players. I would take Jackson or Tatum over him and pray one of them turns into a star. I'd much rather gamble on having the next stud wing for the next NBA cycle rather than having a high-floor point guard.
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Re: No Longer Just Fultz-am and Jetsom: Celtics Hit the Big Time in the Draft. 2017 Draft thread 4.0. 

Post#39 » by Gomes3PC » Wed May 24, 2017 1:10 pm

Ball is gonna have to take a lot more off balance and step back shots to get his jumper off. You will never be able to run him off curls and screens going right either. That curl play is essential for modern PGs.

I do think he will be an excellent spot up guy and he should be able to learn to score other ways, like in the post thanks to his size.

Just hard to project him as a top 2 scorer for you. He's gonna have to make an impact as more of a 14-17 PPG guy.
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Re: No Longer Just Fultz-am and Jetsom: Celtics Hit the Big Time in the Draft. 2017 Draft thread 4.0. 

Post#40 » by Fidel Sarcasmo » Wed May 24, 2017 1:14 pm

ViperGTS wrote:
DK-All Day wrote:
truth18 wrote:Fultz is ashamed of you all:

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