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Green89 wrote:

Mr_Mojo_Risin wrote:

Captain_Caveman wrote:
This is it, exactly. Biggest possession of the game, plenty of time to call a play, and there is not even a plan of any kind. No movement, no passing. Our guys honestly just look confused. Does Jaylen want space? Does he want a pick? No attempt to switch him off a good defender.

I just don't get what Joe thinks he is doing. You know how when someone gets promoted professionally and they don't know how to supervise former colleagues? Like they just can't get past that aspect of being the boss of people they used to be friends with? That's Joe as a coach. And I almost feel like the reason he doesn't call timeouts is because he has no plays to call anyway.

It's maddening, and I really hope it does not cost us a title.

Mate, I respect you opinion, but I don't agree about Joe.

This has been a habit of both Jays for years under three different head coaches. It doesn't matter the coach if the players freeze in their minds and don't follow plans.

None of us are there to know what is being said and coached, so I realise I may be wrong also, but to me there is a clear trend with evidence from Joe this year that leaving these situations is an attempt for player growth to read the game without set plays. The idea being to prepare the players for an eventuality in the playoffs to handle reads themselves if either there are no timeouts left or if the set play fails to be executed as planned.

Let's just say for a moment that my assumption is correct and Joe is doing this, that when he says (around training camp) that he learnt from his mistakes in last playoffs and that he needs to manage the game more actively that he means it and his approach now is only for RS. If this is the case (and I clearly believe it is), then I'm all for it. I'm also for not showing a bunch of set plays in a meaningless RS game.

Of course if I'm wrong about this then very likely Joe is **** and hasn't learnt a thing. But there is many times he's talked post games and preseason about this very thing which leads me to this belief. That and the fact for the most part every single one of our players seems extremely clear on what to do on both ends with various lineups. That's a sign of very good coaching.

What bothers me is JT and JB are not learning quick enough and still have a touch of the panicked brain about them.

Joe hasn't come up with enough game ending play calls to then be able to "test" letting the Jays figure it out on their own. It's pretty clear he's not that kind of coach yet.

JimmyFromNz wrote:Yes it's frustrating, but again perspective.

- We know this team is capable of playing some very rigid and lackadaisical ball in the clutch.
- Refer to the past 6 seasons under multiple different coaches...
- Today was one of those days compounded by complacency after going up 30 in a late March game.
- But consider that carefully in the wider context...

- We have won 20 of the last 22 games.
- We have already tied up the #1 seed.
- We are on track for one of the highest NET ratings ever.
- We are actively employing regular rest days for our top 8 players.

It doesn't mean there's no scrutiny allowed. The biggest outstanding red flag for me remains the final 4 minutes.

Luckily we have been blowing teams out at an unprecedented rate so it hasn't surfaced often, we also remain around the top 8 clutch teams in the league. Which is good, but relatively we then consider what we 'should be'... What does need to change is this stat:

Rank 30th: Boston Celtics Clutch Games Played: 31 Clutch Pace: 94.74

That is bottom of the league, and completely unacceptable for a team with the offensive weapons we have. For those that choose to watch the games, I think we can attest to how that links to what we are seeing with decision making of our two star players.

Just throw this one away and head to the next one.

Mr_Mojo_Risin wrote:

Green89 wrote:

Mr_Mojo_Risin wrote:Mate, I respect you opinion, but I don't agree about Joe.

This has been a habit of both Jays for years under three different head coaches. It doesn't matter the coach if the players freeze in their minds and don't follow plans.

None of us are there to know what is being said and coached, so I realise I may be wrong also, but to me there is a clear trend with evidence from Joe this year that leaving these situations is an attempt for player growth to read the game without set plays. The idea being to prepare the players for an eventuality in the playoffs to handle reads themselves if either there are no timeouts left or if the set play fails to be executed as planned.

Let's just say for a moment that my assumption is correct and Joe is doing this, that when he says (around training camp) that he learnt from his mistakes in last playoffs and that he needs to manage the game more actively that he means it and his approach now is only for RS. If this is the case (and I clearly believe it is), then I'm all for it. I'm also for not showing a bunch of set plays in a meaningless RS game.

Of course if I'm wrong about this then very likely Joe is **** and hasn't learnt a thing. But there is many times he's talked post games and preseason about this very thing which leads me to this belief. That and the fact for the most part every single one of our players seems extremely clear on what to do on both ends with various lineups. That's a sign of very good coaching.

What bothers me is JT and JB are not learning quick enough and still have a touch of the panicked brain about them.

Joe hasn't come up with enough game ending play calls to then be able to "test" letting the Jays figure it out on their own. It's pretty clear he's not that kind of coach yet.

Yes that is somewhat unknown which is disconcerting as a fan. Earlier this season someone had the stat about Boston being 2nd or 3rd in the league about points from after timeout plays which indicates to me he would have a bunch, but it doesn't change that it is worrisome at the moment for Celts fans.

GrandTheftRondo wrote:

Mr_Mojo_Risin wrote:

Green89 wrote:
Joe hasn't come up with enough game ending play calls to then be able to "test" letting the Jays figure it out on their own. It's pretty clear he's not that kind of coach yet.

Yes that is somewhat unknown which is disconcerting as a fan. Earlier this season someone had the stat about Boston being 2nd or 3rd in the league about points from after timeout plays which indicates to me he would have a bunch, but it doesn't change that it is worrisome at the moment for Celts fans.

It’s also hard to know how many plays get blown up and the players don’t react well.

It’s been an issue with Stevens and Udoka at the helm.

Certainly far different to those teams with Rondo and the big 3 who were really good at executing what Doc wanted but also reading what the D was doing.

Tatum doesn’t read and react quickly enough.

Jrue is our floor general who can definitely help but he’s also a bit of a questionable decision maker.

Sweet Serenity wrote:Let’s just forget about the 70 or so odd games & solely focus on the other 4 or 5 games …
Oh & why don’t we just completely forget that we have the 3rd highest net rating of all time …
While we’re at it let’s just completely look away from the fact we are 20-3 in our last 23 games.

It’s March & we’ve had the #1 seed locked up for a while now. Team isn’t as locked in, went cold shooting the ball & the other team got hot. It’s well known no lead is safe in the NBA these days even if it’s against the mediocre teams.

But hey, if the ‘meltdown crew’ want to have their 4th or something meltdown for the season, that’s fine ..
I, like the ‘reasonable crew’ will not overreact to a game in late March & happily say “I told you so” when we’re hoisting the trophy in June.

GrandTheftRondo wrote:

Fierce1 wrote:

GrandTheftRondo wrote:Joe deserves some flak for the late game stuff but how many times does it have to be spelled out that Tatum simply is a level below guys like Durant, Curry, LeBron etc at the end of games?

He simply cannot get easy buckets like them and it’s been a flaw of his throughout his entire career and I don’t see it changing.

It is what holds him back from being a top 3 player.

He can change that narrative in this year's playoffs and hopefully the finals.

Maybe.

But if we’re to win a title I’ve got a feeling it’s going to be ugly for multiple rounds like the 2008 team.

If finals games for instance come down to the last minutes against Jokic then we simply won’t win.

Green89 wrote:

JimmyFromNz wrote:Yes it's frustrating, but again perspective.

- We know this team is capable of playing some very rigid and lackadaisical ball in the clutch.
- Refer to the past 6 seasons under multiple different coaches...
- Today was one of those days compounded by complacency after going up 30 in a late March game.
- But consider that carefully in the wider context...

- We have won 20 of the last 22 games.
- We have already tied up the #1 seed.
- We are on track for one of the highest NET ratings ever.
- We are actively employing regular rest days for our top 8 players.

It doesn't mean there's no scrutiny allowed. The biggest outstanding red flag for me remains the final 4 minutes.

Luckily we have been blowing teams out at an unprecedented rate so it hasn't surfaced often, we also remain around the top 8 clutch teams in the league. Which is good, but relatively we then consider what we 'should be'... What does need to change is this stat:

Rank 30th: Boston Celtics Clutch Games Played: 31 Clutch Pace: 94.74

That is bottom of the league, and completely unacceptable for a team with the offensive weapons we have. For those that choose to watch the games, I think we can attest to how that links to what we are seeing with decision making of our two star players.

Just throw this one away and head to the next one.

Now 6-11 when tied or down in the game's final 2 minutes.

TheMartian wrote:

Green89 wrote:

JimmyFromNz wrote:Yes it's frustrating, but again perspective.

- We know this team is capable of playing some very rigid and lackadaisical ball in the clutch.
- Refer to the past 6 seasons under multiple different coaches...
- Today was one of those days compounded by complacency after going up 30 in a late March game.
- But consider that carefully in the wider context...

- We have won 20 of the last 22 games.
- We have already tied up the #1 seed.
- We are on track for one of the highest NET ratings ever.
- We are actively employing regular rest days for our top 8 players.

It doesn't mean there's no scrutiny allowed. The biggest outstanding red flag for me remains the final 4 minutes.

Luckily we have been blowing teams out at an unprecedented rate so it hasn't surfaced often, we also remain around the top 8 clutch teams in the league. Which is good, but relatively we then consider what we 'should be'... What does need to change is this stat:

Rank 30th: Boston Celtics Clutch Games Played: 31 Clutch Pace: 94.74

That is bottom of the league, and completely unacceptable for a team with the offensive weapons we have. For those that choose to watch the games, I think we can attest to how that links to what we are seeing with decision making of our two star players.

Just throw this one away and head to the next one.

Now 6-11 when tied or down in the game's final 2 minutes.

This is what concerns me more than anything. In the playoffs, you can expect a lot of close games, and the team's track record in close games, especially when they are down or tied, leaves a lot to be desired. Their only hope is to blow teams away every game (which they are very much capable of), but otherwise they have a lot of work to do.