Image Image Image Image

offseason moves/news/activity

ADDinChicago
Analyst
Posts: 3,352
And1: 757
Joined: Dec 30, 2013

Re: offseason moves/news/activity 

Post#21 » by ADDinChicago » Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:32 am

hermes wrote:think we're done on pitching? we've added some depth (and the guys we brought in can be bullpen and starters so that helps even more)

do we need another guy?


The Cubs still need bullpen help. And that is what I think they'll still acquire (in addition to CF). Which is why moving someone like Baez, as much as it might hurt, to a team like the Rays still makes a lot of sense. Especially if they could get a Brad Boxberger or maybe even more like a SP such as Jake McGee (and the Cubs would kick in more pieces), would be huge for both parties.

As nice as Hector Rondon was, the Cubs would like to upgrade the closer position if they can.

And it sounds like the Cubs are still hoping to hit it big at the winter meetings. Heyward obviously is the top target, but there are other roster spots to still be filled/upgraded on the bench.
User avatar
karch34
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,477
And1: 215
Joined: Jul 05, 2001
Location: Valley of the Sun
     

Re: offseason moves/news/activity 

Post#22 » by karch34 » Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:42 pm

Holy Cow! We signed Heyward per all reports. Really didn't expect that. Big shot across the bow with the Cardinals rivalry.
User avatar
GYBE
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 9,000
And1: 349
Joined: Feb 14, 2005
Location: Kanada

Re: offseason moves/news/activity 

Post#23 » by GYBE » Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:24 pm

the hilarity of us signing the best free agent hitter when our lineup was already stacked, my word.
ADDinChicago
Analyst
Posts: 3,352
And1: 757
Joined: Dec 30, 2013

Re: offseason moves/news/activity 

Post#24 » by ADDinChicago » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:08 pm

karch34 wrote:Holy Cow! We signed Heyward per all reports. Really didn't expect that. Big shot across the bow with the Cardinals rivalry.


The best part is it's not $200 mil and he apparently took less to join the Cubs as the Nationals offered more.
User avatar
hermes
RealGM
Posts: 76,248
And1: 19,656
Joined: Aug 27, 2007
Location: the restaurant at the end of the universe

Re: offseason moves/news/activity 

Post#25 » by hermes » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:25 pm

woooooooooooooooo!
doovalacky

#1 brook lopez fan
User avatar
hermes
RealGM
Posts: 76,248
And1: 19,656
Joined: Aug 27, 2007
Location: the restaurant at the end of the universe

Re: offseason moves/news/activity 

Post#26 » by hermes » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:25 pm

and we might not even be done, i guess they still might trade for a pitcher
doovalacky

#1 brook lopez fan
User avatar
NyCeEvO
Forum Mod - Nets
Forum Mod - Nets
Posts: 18,574
And1: 4,028
Joined: Jul 14, 2010

Re: offseason moves/news/activity 

Post#27 » by NyCeEvO » Sat Dec 12, 2015 2:17 am

ADDinChicago wrote:
karch34 wrote:Holy Cow! We signed Heyward per all reports. Really didn't expect that. Big shot across the bow with the Cardinals rivalry.


The best part is it's not $200 mil and he apparently took less to join the Cubs as the Nationals offered more.

There are some reports that even the Cardinals offered $200mil as well. Don't know if that's true though.
User avatar
karch34
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,477
And1: 215
Joined: Jul 05, 2001
Location: Valley of the Sun
     

Re: offseason moves/news/activity 

Post#28 » by karch34 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:15 am

The lineup is stacked. It's just a weird feeling to think we made out like we did already and haven't touched the farm system.
User avatar
Howling Mad
General Manager
Posts: 8,247
And1: 167
Joined: Jun 28, 2006

Re: offseason moves/news/activity 

Post#29 » by Howling Mad » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:39 pm

I followed along very closely as things started to fall into the place over the last week or so. My wife and I went away on a trip this weekend so I spent some time listening to podcasts, reading up on what I missed so I figured I'd share what I picked up, espeically helpful for the folks not in the chicago market.

-Cubs were never going for a big name free agent pitcher. Price was almost a perfect fit but it was too much money for him and Lester. Bruce Levine, local reporter, thinks it was one big smoke screen (Prince). On that same thought, Peter Gammons - who many assume his buddy Theo is giving him the inside scoop, helped flank the Cardinals to think the Cubs were zeroed in on Price with Heyward as a long shot target. He reported a few times on ESPN that Theo was fabricating interest in Heyward to drive the price up. Looking back it wsa the complete oppo.

-Ideally the Cubs would like to move Soler for young pitcher that they would have control over for 3-5 years. They'd be willing to part with Soler + B rated prospect. One of the Cubs podcasts reported that they offered an A+B prospect for Shelby Miller, and mulled two lower quality A prospects, but eventually put the priority on Heyward and passed.

-Most believe Baez is here to stay waiting in the wings behind Zobrist.

-some chatter about Ender Inciarte, one of the prized prospects the Braves got in the trade for Shelby Miller, but nothing even rumor worthy there.


My personal thoughts are that those two A prospects the Cubs mulled were Baez and Soler cause I couldn't see them parting with Bryant, Rizzo, or Schwarber. I also think they're interest in shelby miller was a 'half' try to help sway the believe that pitching was their #1 priority.

We've heard over and over the plan is stack up hitting as much as possible and get arms that last 180 innings and build a strong bullpen. I'd like to see Soler traded for a pitcher, then I'd like to see a true leadoff signing (Span). Or if Theo can pull off a Soler for Inciarte trade, I'd be over the moon.
ADDinChicago
Analyst
Posts: 3,352
And1: 757
Joined: Dec 30, 2013

Re: offseason moves/news/activity 

Post#30 » by ADDinChicago » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:32 am

Who thinks Baez is here to stay? Most in the media, and most fans, believe with the Zobrist signing, it almost assures Baez is the next to go for arms. They're not going to have him on the bench for 3-4 seasons.
User avatar
Howling Mad
General Manager
Posts: 8,247
And1: 167
Joined: Jun 28, 2006

Re: offseason moves/news/activity 

Post#31 » by Howling Mad » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:34 pm

I don't think Zobrist is a 3/4 year plan. I think he's a 2 year plan with the last two years being a backup and super utility guy. He's also going to be considered a 4th outfielder after Heyward, Schwarbs and future CF. That'll give Baez plenty of at-bats at 2B.

On Baez, it's most of the media. Teams inquired about him after the Zobrist signing, but from what I gathered Baez's value to the Cubs and how others teams see him are very far apart. Or at least other teams think they can get him cheap on the dollar since Zobrist is our guy at 2nd now. The Cubs view Baez's value as a super infield sub, with a potential to be a 25-30 hr guy, and coming from SS/2B that'd be huge if it came to fruition. Now with Zobrist the Cubs have the patience for that. Levine said he sees Baez getting a lot of at bats at multiple infield positions adding he'd like to keep the core guys closer to 500 at bats rather than pushing 600+. Baez could make that possible for 3B, SS, 2B.

Soler on the other hand has become expendable since JH's age and prime position practically make Soler a fifth outfielder. I think it was Jon Heyman who said it - what Soler offers, the Cubs don't need.
Future potential, cubs have.
Future power/contact, Cubs have.
An outfielder that can't play defense, Cubs have.
On top of that, his poor play in cold weather last year likely doesn't make him an October hero. Cubs would love to flip him for pitching but nothing is matching up and clubs are asking for more. Most teams still value pitching over batting, Cubs philosophy is the opposite so working out a trade has been difficult.

There was a lot of rumblings about Carlos Gonzalez, but thats done now. I'm not sure if the Cubs have enough to still sign Denard Span, but thatd be great if we could get Span at the top with everyone shifting one spot down in thebatting order, with Soler being absent. The only other potential rumor, not even a full rumor, is the prospect the Braves just got from the dbacks, Inciarte.
ADDinChicago
Analyst
Posts: 3,352
And1: 757
Joined: Dec 30, 2013

Re: offseason moves/news/activity 

Post#32 » by ADDinChicago » Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:09 pm

I'm well aware of how the Cubs "view" Baez & Soler. If they didn't, they'd have gone for less by now. But you can't play 10 position players. It's only a matter of time. And what "future CF" are you talking about? Heyward is the CF unless Soler is dealt, and it's most likely going to be Coghlan then in CF or RF. The Cubs landed the white whale in Heyward, no more starting position players are coming. Epstein basically said last Friday that was "probably it" for spending for now.

There weren't "rumblings" about CarGo, either, it was one report from Sports Mockery, who has a history of just throwing ideas out there and MLB Rumors piggy backed on it. And Bruce Levine has been off his game since ESPN cut ties and went of to the Bore. He now regurgiates other's "scoops" and stuff he must read on MLBTradeRumors. It's like when Sam Smith was put out to pasture and the Bulls signed him to write fluff pieces for their site.

Either way, Baez isn't going to sit for 2 years and the Cubs still have a plethora of 4th OF options (if Soler isn't dealt) in Chris Coghlan, Alcantara & Szczur until Amora is ready. Soler & Baez both are going to be the "odd men out" barring an injury in time. The Cubs now need quality arms more than anything.
User avatar
ChronicKerr
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,500
And1: 29
Joined: May 23, 2007
Location: Old Town
       

Re: offseason moves/news/activity 

Post#33 » by ChronicKerr » Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:21 pm

If the right deal isn't out there they shouldn't give away Baez or Soler. Soler is cost controlled for many years at a very reasonable salary that has to have value around the league.

Having said that, I would still feel better adding another quality SP (better than hendricks/hammel) as well as some BP help. I suspect value signings will continue to occur and hopefully a deal matches up with most likely soler, perhaps both if they can get a salazar/ross.
User avatar
Howling Mad
General Manager
Posts: 8,247
And1: 167
Joined: Jun 28, 2006

Re: offseason moves/news/activity 

Post#34 » by Howling Mad » Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:40 am

It's politically correct to say Heyward is our starting day CF, but to get the WAR value the team paid for Heyward he needs to be at RF not CF.

The Carlos Gonzalez news was national news from several sources, sporting news, CBS sports, Jon Heyman. The piece being swapped was Jorge Soler. The main reason it wasn't done - he isn't a true center fielder.

Schwarbs is goign to get time behind the plate, that shifts Zobrist to LF, and Baez in at 2nd. Baez should see 300-400 ABs - 150-200 at 2nd, 100 at SS and 100 at 3B. That seems like a reasonable amount of ABs for a sub and if he can put together a .275/.325/.450 slash with 15-20 HRs, he'd be one of the best super subs in baseball who could potentially turn into a star just around the time Zobrist turns 37.

My personal feelings is that the Cubs would rather grab a high defensive CF that could give some base stealing support, split time at CF with Heyward, rather than putting Heyward full time at CF and Soler as the everyday RF.
User avatar
Howling Mad
General Manager
Posts: 8,247
And1: 167
Joined: Jun 28, 2006

Re: offseason moves/news/activity 

Post#35 » by Howling Mad » Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:00 am

The other news that I failed to mention is chatter with the Rays. I believe it was Phil Rogers who first reported the Rays interest in Baez. Theo inquired about Kevin Kermaier, doesn't want to part with Baez, Soler doesn't get it done. Now Phil Rogers is saying it could turn into a mega deal with Soler/Baez going to the Rays for a pitcher and KK.

Talk about a stud defensive CF, speed on the bases, and a young guy who could grow with the team and under contract for awhile.
User avatar
Howling Mad
General Manager
Posts: 8,247
And1: 167
Joined: Jun 28, 2006

Re: offseason moves/news/activity 

Post#36 » by Howling Mad » Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:59 pm

We signed Jean Machi, key bullpen arm during the Giants World Series run. Fell off the year after and traded to BOS. Looks like a good candidate to rebound if he's put in the right situation.
ADDinChicago
Analyst
Posts: 3,352
And1: 757
Joined: Dec 30, 2013

Re: offseason moves/news/activity 

Post#37 » by ADDinChicago » Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:44 pm

Howling Mad wrote:The other news that I failed to mention is chatter with the Rays. I believe it was Phil Rogers who first reported the Rays interest in Baez. Theo inquired about Kevin Kermaier, doesn't want to part with Baez, Soler doesn't get it done. Now Phil Rogers is saying it could turn into a mega deal with Soler/Baez going to the Rays for a pitcher and KK.

Talk about a stud defensive CF, speed on the bases, and a young guy who could grow with the team and under contract for awhile.


It's Brad Boxberger & Jake McGee that are/were being mentioned, which it would take both Baez & Soler to pry away. Originally the Cubs were seeking Jake Odorizzi or Matt Moore (which in addition to Chris Archer) are not happening. I also don't see the Rays parting with Kiermaier, even with both Baez & Soler going down to TB. The original deal, much like the proposed deal with the Braves, quickly died when the opposition started asking for highly touted prospects (mainly Billy McKinney).
User avatar
Howling Mad
General Manager
Posts: 8,247
And1: 167
Joined: Jun 28, 2006

Re: offseason moves/news/activity 

Post#38 » by Howling Mad » Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:26 pm

Phil Rogers news is brand new as of yesterday. Rays mulling the extension for Kiermaier since their farm system is full of defensive speed guys. Silverman value's KK's WAR almost as much as Theo and Jed do, but still unsure if he wants to let a 7+ WAR guy go, especially at only 25 yrs old.

If the Cubs got KK, they'd have four position players with a top 20 WAR value in baseball. Having 3 WAR guys in the top compares to the best teams in baseball history. With Bryant, Rizzo and Heyward we have that, if we added KK, ooh ma gosh.
User avatar
ChicagoTRS
Pro Prospect
Posts: 826
And1: 6
Joined: Jul 06, 2006

Re: offseason moves/news/activity 

Post#39 » by ChicagoTRS » Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:49 am

I think major moves are probably over. I think Theo would be perfectly willing to trade Baez or Soler but will not do it unless he is getting value. Pitching has been overpriced this offseason and quality bats undervalued. Theo understands at some point if Soler/Baez display real power their value will increase and he can go into the season with the roster "as is" and be the favorite in the NL. Holding Soler/Baez gives the team flexibility to make moves during the season when they better understand what they might need. Maddon is the perfect coach to handle this roster - Baez will get plenty of at bats and I expect Maddon to continue to platoon and shuffle defensive positions based on match ups. Maddon puts young players in ideal positions to succeed. The Cubs offseason really put the rest of the league on notice...I do not think teams are willing to give the Cubs a trade that is not one sided at this point.
Image
ADDinChicago
Analyst
Posts: 3,352
And1: 757
Joined: Dec 30, 2013

Re: offseason moves/news/activity 

Post#40 » by ADDinChicago » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:37 am

The Brendan Ryan Era is already over as the Cubs released him today (which was not surprising at all).

Return to Chicago Cubs