ImageImage

Doug Collins Turns Down the Bucks /Sund Leading Candidate

Moderators: paulpressey25, MickeyDavis

Andrew34r
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,831
And1: 2
Joined: Mar 17, 2006
Location: AZ
     

 

Post#21 » by Andrew34r » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:54 pm

I was just reading through his free agent signings and they are terrible....The only guy who is half-way decent on there is Antonio Daniels.

I guess Calvin Booth, Randy Livingston (who he signed at least a half a dozen times) Ansu Sesay, Jerome James, Leon Smith, Mateen Cleaves, Rick Brunson, Mikki Moore, Noel Felix, Marcus Fizer and Andre Brown would all disagree. :banghead:
xTitan
RealGM
Posts: 17,132
And1: 2,279
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
     

 

Post#22 » by xTitan » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:54 pm

I know that the Bucks are hoping to have someone in place by the end of the regular season, so we are looking at the next 2.5 weeks. If you remember Kohl said Babcock will be handling the draft, he said it matter of factly and with the desire to have someone hired by the end of the season, which makes you wonder, is Kohl going to split the job? I know his group of circle jerks view Babcock as an excellent player personnel guy and no decision is actually made without consulting the lawyers...so the disfunction known as the Bucks family could actually be growing. I also know Babcock wants, and still thinks he is a viable candidate for the job.
User avatar
MickeyDavis
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 92,280
And1: 44,904
Joined: May 02, 2002
Location: The Craps Table
     

 

Post#23 » by MickeyDavis » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:59 pm

I agree with hiring someone asap. The new guy HAS to be involved with the draft and any potential draft day trades we may wish to make.
I'm against picketing but I don't know how to show it.
User avatar
mcfromage
Veteran
Posts: 2,815
And1: 840
Joined: May 03, 2007
Location: California

 

Post#24 » by mcfromage » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:04 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:I agree with hiring someone asap. The new guy HAS to be involved with the draft and any potential draft day trades we may wish to make.


I'd like to see the new GM make the coaching hire too, naturally.
User avatar
blkout
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,689
And1: 1,914
Joined: Dec 12, 2005
Location: Melbourne
 

 

Post#25 » by blkout » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:05 pm

Here's some Sonics fans reactions when they found out Sund was gone...

Thank god!!!


I was growing tired of Sund not doing anything.


Gee...what a shame.


I feel bad for Sund that his last move was the signing of Randy Livingston. Never the best way to go out, that.


GOOD!


Best news ive heard all year!


This is a great day for Sonics basketball.


I couldn't be happier with this news. I was jumping up and down on the couch when I read it on the bottom of the screen during the Bulls/Heat game yesterday.


Awesome. Can't wait.
Image
User avatar
paulpressey25
Senior Mod - Bucks
Senior Mod - Bucks
Posts: 60,876
And1: 25,840
Joined: Oct 27, 2002
     

 

Post#26 » by paulpressey25 » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:07 pm

Rick Sund and Norm Sonju did a great job with Dallas. But that was 25 years ago. The world has changed however.

As highlighted, his Seattle track record was horrible and all he did was fool Herb Kohl into trading Ray Allen. Seems par for the course for Herb to hire-trade for people who have done well against him and his team. It is a long list.

Do we need a RealGM protest against a Sund hiring?
User avatar
LUKE23
RealGM
Posts: 72,264
And1: 6,213
Joined: May 26, 2005
Location: Stunville
       

 

Post#27 » by LUKE23 » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:12 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:Rick Sund and Norm Sonju did a great job with Dallas. But that was 25 years ago. The world has changed however.

As highlighted, his Seattle track record was horrible and all he did was fool Herb Kohl into trading Ray Allen. Seems par for the course for Herb to hire-trade for people who have done well against him and his team. It is a long list.

Do we need a RealGM protest against a Sund hiring?


Yes. This cannot happen. It just cannot.
User avatar
MickeyDavis
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 92,280
And1: 44,904
Joined: May 02, 2002
Location: The Craps Table
     

 

Post#28 » by MickeyDavis » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:16 pm

While the source of the Sund story is PV in this case it's 100% believable.
I'm against picketing but I don't know how to show it.
Bucks_Revenge
Banned User
Posts: 7,978
And1: 1
Joined: Oct 13, 2004

 

Post#29 » by Bucks_Revenge » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:17 pm

if you do have a protest to not hire Sund I think that will work...........no way Kohl hires him after a group of fans protest it not to happen.
User avatar
bigkurty
General Manager
Posts: 8,212
And1: 1,511
Joined: Apr 23, 2005
Location: Gilbert, AZ
     

 

Post#30 » by bigkurty » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:22 pm

dogswithbeesintheirmouths wrote:Why wouldn't we go after somebody who's in a second-tier position with a really good team? Those guys want to move up the ladder and prove themselves. They might even put up with Kohl's crap. Sund as the leading candidate is f***ing ridiculous.:evil:

And what is our obsession with Doug Collins about? He was only a coach and it's not like he did it for 20 years. He coached 8 seasons and he was fired 3 times.

:nod:
User avatar
Wise1
RealGM
Posts: 18,261
And1: 256
Joined: Jun 27, 2005
Location: Devouring worlds.
     

 

Post#31 » by Wise1 » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:22 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:Rick Sund and Norm Sonju did a great job with Dallas. But that was 25 years ago. The world has changed however.

As highlighted, his Seattle track record was horrible and all he did was fool Herb Kohl into trading Ray Allen. Seems par for the course for Herb to hire-trade for people who have done well against him and his team. It is a long list.

Do we need a RealGM protest against a Sund hiring?


A resounding yes.

If Kohl brings Sund in, it'll just be a nother sign of how out of touch he is with winning basketball.
User avatar
WEFFPIM
RealGM
Posts: 38,521
And1: 473
Joined: Nov 14, 2005
Location: WEFFPIM. I'm the real WEFFPIM.
   

 

Post#32 » by WEFFPIM » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:28 pm

Where Amazingly Predictable Happens
ReddWing wrote:Being a fan of this team is tantamount to being in hell...There is no Christ that is coming to save us. Even if there was, we'd trade him for a 28 year old wing.
fam3381
General Manager
Posts: 7,572
And1: 171
Joined: Jun 07, 2005
Location: Austin

 

Post#33 » by fam3381 » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:34 pm

Reading up on the Sonics, it seems like Wally Walker was always the alpha dog in the Sonics front office anyway.
Retired Bucks blogger. Occasional Bucks podcaster.
User avatar
LUKE23
RealGM
Posts: 72,264
And1: 6,213
Joined: May 26, 2005
Location: Stunville
       

 

Post#34 » by LUKE23 » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:38 pm

There is no way, none, that anyone can sell Sund as a good GM candidate. This would be an absolute disgrace if it came to fruition.
LISTEN2JAZZ
RealGM
Posts: 13,277
And1: 172
Joined: Feb 21, 2005
Location: Madison
 

 

Post#35 » by LISTEN2JAZZ » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:45 pm

Someone explain to me how Sund would be preferable to putting a $7/hour intern from one of the local colleges in charge of drafting whoever is ranked highest at draftexpress.com.

Firing all the scouts and sticking to the advice of a website would be far preferable to letting Sund draft us another Swift/Sene/Petro.
msiris
RealGM
Posts: 10,133
And1: 1,676
Joined: Jul 25, 2005
Location: Central Wisconsin

 

Post#36 » by msiris » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:49 pm

Kohl as no vision. Somebody please buy him a seeing eye dog.
Ride the tank
heynow
Pro Prospect
Posts: 893
And1: 0
Joined: Dec 22, 2005

 

Post#37 » by heynow » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:25 pm

Sund is someone Kohl trust.
He not concerned that he will do any radical surgery.
If Sund is hired he will be the equivalent of a super scout/play evaluator but Herb will continue making the final decisions on major moves.

The bad news will be Herb will be still the person making the final decision on major decisions.

The good news is that Sund, I think is a better talent evaluator then Harris.

Also, I think for a year or two there is a chance that Kohl might actually listen to him...

In short Redd isn't going anywhere unless he demands to be traded.
In short Mo isn't going anywhere unless he demands to be traded.


This will essentially seal it for me.
I will find something else to do during the NBA season.
Maybe I will start going to Chicago for more Blackhawk games.
User avatar
worthlessBucks
RealGM
Posts: 22,447
And1: 4,823
Joined: Jan 26, 2005
Location: Bucks Logo
   

 

Post#38 » by worthlessBucks » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:30 pm

Walter must be back from vacation.

Sund is garbage, we know that but I'm confused why they keep lusting for Collins. I don't believe he's ever been in a GM position or in charge of personnel, so why do they think he'd be some magician if he came here?
Go Bucks!
coolhandluke121
RealGM
Posts: 13,269
And1: 6,834
Joined: Sep 23, 2007

 

Post#39 » by coolhandluke121 » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:42 pm

Great! I've heard of Sund - that means he must be good, right? :roll:

I will say this, somebody who's been in the league as long as Sund has must have a lot of contacts, and I believe what the Bucks need more than anything else is someone who can figure out which teams want which players from the Bucks. Just let Babcock do the drafting and fa scouting.

I'm reaching, aren't I?
GrandAdmiralDan
RealGM
Posts: 15,104
And1: 1,291
Joined: Jul 24, 2004
Location: New Berlin, WI (Milwaukee)
Contact:
     

 

Post#40 » by GrandAdmiralDan » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:14 pm

xTitan wrote:I know that the Bucks are hoping to have someone in place by the end of the regular season, so we are looking at the next 2.5 weeks. If you remember Kohl said Babcock will be handling the draft, he said it matter of factly and with the desire to have someone hired by the end of the season, which makes you wonder, is Kohl going to split the job? I know his group of circle jerks view Babcock as an excellent player personnel guy and no decision is actually made without consulting the lawyers...so the disfunction known as the Bucks family could actually be growing. I also know Babcock wants, and still thinks he is a viable candidate for the job.


Yeah, that's why I couldn't buy into the belief that some people had that Kohl would change his meddling ways when bringing in a new GM.

Kohl, Walter, et al are ALREADY meddling with the new GM and they haven't even hired him yet! Any new GM is forced to keep Dave Babcock rather than bring in their own person if they want. THAT is meddling. And it's not that they just have to keep Babcock, but he is the one in charge of the draft. THAT is meddling.

Unless things get really wacky (Bucks go on a winning streak, etc.) we are going to have a top 10 draft pick to either use or trade. That should be a major tool that the new GM should have at his disposal when attempting to adjust our roster. But he won't get to. Babcock will be in charge of the draft. But of course Babcock won't ultimately be in charge. When he decides who we need to draft, he will then have to run it by Kohl, Walter, etc. just like Harris had to do when he decided we should take Yi.

Doug Collins turned down the opportunity to coach and run the front office at $5M per season. He also rejected a $4M offer to do one or the other.


Most of the other disgusting things about this overall story have already been mentioned in this thread. Rick Sund? Yuck. I've been telling people since the day Harris was fired that we will end up with either Rick Sund or Dave Babcock as the new GM. Because that's how we roll. I even recall placing the likelihood of that happening at 90% in a few of the conversations I've had regarding this topic.

But the above quote is what I want to focus on because that is a big part of why I have been saying it will either be Rick Sund or Dave Babcock.

If we want a top candidate to come HERE and actually put himself in the position of having to deal with Kohl, Walter, etc. then we have to not only pay top dollar, we have to tack on a little extra.

I never really wanted Doug Collins anyway (I don't know why Herb Kohl remains so enamored with him still) but OF COURSE he is not going to come here for just $4 mil as either the coach or GM. That is not enough money. And the fact that we also asked if he'd do the other job ALSO for only an extra $1 mil is absurd. That is a total Kohl/Walter move right there. An opportunity to attempt to save a little money. WTF is wrong with us?

If all we are willing to pay a "name" candidate like Doug Collins is $4 mil, then I'm sure that our offers (if any are even made) to the lesser known (to the average fan) front office people like Tommy Sheppard, Dennis Lindsey, and David Griffin are going to be WAY too low for them to come here. Kohl/Walter will think they are being generous with an offer of $1.75 mil per year on a 3 year contract and all of those good candidates will either laugh at or take offense at the offer (maybe both) and then stay in their current jobs.

Kohl will say he tried his best (which will be a lie, because Kohl got too cheap on stuff that isn't a player salary AGAIN) and hire Rick Sund to at least be able to say that he did indeed bring someone in from the outside with a "fresh perspective"

But depending on how cheap he goes with Sund, maybe Sund won't even come here. It is already known that Sund wasn't all that interested in coming here and it was the Northwestern AD's job he was interested in.
So Kohl will say he tried his best. And then Dave Babcock will become our new GM.

Sell the team, Senator. Sell the team.
97-98
Nick Van Exel (LAL) on defending the Stockton-Malone pick-and-roll: "Yeah,
I got a way to defend it. Bring a bat to the game and kill one of them."

Return to Milwaukee Bucks