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Doug Collins Turns Down the Bucks /Sund Leading Candidate

Moderators: MickeyDavis, paulpressey25

Post#21
Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:54 am by Andrew34r

I was just reading through his free agent signings and they are terrible....The only guy who is half-way decent on there is Antonio Daniels.

I guess Calvin Booth, Randy Livingston (who he signed at least a half a dozen times) Ansu Sesay, Jerome James, Leon Smith, Mateen Cleaves, Rick Brunson, Mikki Moore, Noel Felix, Marcus Fizer and Andre Brown would all disagree. :banghead:
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Post#22
Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:54 am by xTitan

I know that the Bucks are hoping to have someone in place by the end of the regular season, so we are looking at the next 2.5 weeks. If you remember Kohl said Babcock will be handling the draft, he said it matter of factly and with the desire to have someone hired by the end of the season, which makes you wonder, is Kohl going to split the job? I know his group of circle jerks view Babcock as an excellent player personnel guy and no decision is actually made without consulting the lawyers...so the disfunction known as the Bucks family could actually be growing. I also know Babcock wants, and still thinks he is a viable candidate for the job.
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Post#23
Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:59 am by MickeyDavis

I agree with hiring someone asap. The new guy HAS to be involved with the draft and any potential draft day trades we may wish to make.
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Post#24
Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:04 pm by mcfromage

MickeyDavis wrote:I agree with hiring someone asap. The new guy HAS to be involved with the draft and any potential draft day trades we may wish to make.


I'd like to see the new GM make the coaching hire too, naturally.
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Post#25
Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:05 pm by blkout

Here's some Sonics fans reactions when they found out Sund was gone...

Thank god!!!


I was growing tired of Sund not doing anything.


Gee...what a shame.


I feel bad for Sund that his last move was the signing of Randy Livingston. Never the best way to go out, that.


GOOD!


Best news ive heard all year!


This is a great day for Sonics basketball.


I couldn't be happier with this news. I was jumping up and down on the couch when I read it on the bottom of the screen during the Bulls/Heat game yesterday.


Awesome. Can't wait.
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Post#26
Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:07 pm by paulpressey25

Rick Sund and Norm Sonju did a great job with Dallas. But that was 25 years ago. The world has changed however.

As highlighted, his Seattle track record was horrible and all he did was fool Herb Kohl into trading Ray Allen. Seems par for the course for Herb to hire-trade for people who have done well against him and his team. It is a long list.

Do we need a RealGM protest against a Sund hiring?
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Post#27
Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:12 pm by LUKE23

paulpressey25 wrote:Rick Sund and Norm Sonju did a great job with Dallas. But that was 25 years ago. The world has changed however.

As highlighted, his Seattle track record was horrible and all he did was fool Herb Kohl into trading Ray Allen. Seems par for the course for Herb to hire-trade for people who have done well against him and his team. It is a long list.

Do we need a RealGM protest against a Sund hiring?


Yes. This cannot happen. It just cannot.
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Post#28
Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:16 pm by MickeyDavis

While the source of the Sund story is PV in this case it's 100% believable.
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Post#29
Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:17 pm by Bucks_Revenge

if you do have a protest to not hire Sund I think that will work...........no way Kohl hires him after a group of fans protest it not to happen.
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Post#30
Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:22 pm by bigkurty

dogswithbeesintheirmouths wrote:Why wouldn't we go after somebody who's in a second-tier position with a really good team? Those guys want to move up the ladder and prove themselves. They might even put up with Kohl's crap. Sund as the leading candidate is f***ing ridiculous.:evil:

And what is our obsession with Doug Collins about? He was only a coach and it's not like he did it for 20 years. He coached 8 seasons and he was fired 3 times.

:nod:
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Post#31
Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:22 pm by Wise1

paulpressey25 wrote:Rick Sund and Norm Sonju did a great job with Dallas. But that was 25 years ago. The world has changed however.

As highlighted, his Seattle track record was horrible and all he did was fool Herb Kohl into trading Ray Allen. Seems par for the course for Herb to hire-trade for people who have done well against him and his team. It is a long list.

Do we need a RealGM protest against a Sund hiring?


A resounding yes.

If Kohl brings Sund in, it'll just be a nother sign of how out of touch he is with winning basketball.
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Post#32
Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:28 pm by WEFFPIM

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Post#33
Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:34 pm by fam3381

Reading up on the Sonics, it seems like Wally Walker was always the alpha dog in the Sonics front office anyway.
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Post#34
Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:38 pm by LUKE23

There is no way, none, that anyone can sell Sund as a good GM candidate. This would be an absolute disgrace if it came to fruition.
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Post#35
Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:45 pm by adamcz

Someone explain to me how Sund would be preferable to putting a $7/hour intern from one of the local colleges in charge of drafting whoever is ranked highest at draftexpress.com.

Firing all the scouts and sticking to the advice of a website would be far preferable to letting Sund draft us another Swift/Sene/Petro.
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Post#36
Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:49 pm by msiris

Kohl as no vision. Somebody please buy him a seeing eye dog.
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Post#37
Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:25 pm by heynow

Sund is someone Kohl trust.
He not concerned that he will do any radical surgery.
If Sund is hired he will be the equivalent of a super scout/play evaluator but Herb will continue making the final decisions on major moves.

The bad news will be Herb will be still the person making the final decision on major decisions.

The good news is that Sund, I think is a better talent evaluator then Harris.

Also, I think for a year or two there is a chance that Kohl might actually listen to him...

In short Redd isn't going anywhere unless he demands to be traded.
In short Mo isn't going anywhere unless he demands to be traded.


This will essentially seal it for me.
I will find something else to do during the NBA season.
Maybe I will start going to Chicago for more Blackhawk games.
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Post#38
Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:30 pm by worthlessBucks

Walter must be back from vacation.

Sund is garbage, we know that but I'm confused why they keep lusting for Collins. I don't believe he's ever been in a GM position or in charge of personnel, so why do they think he'd be some magician if he came here?
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Post#39
Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:42 pm by coolhandluke121

Great! I've heard of Sund - that means he must be good, right? :roll:

I will say this, somebody who's been in the league as long as Sund has must have a lot of contacts, and I believe what the Bucks need more than anything else is someone who can figure out which teams want which players from the Bucks. Just let Babcock do the drafting and fa scouting.

I'm reaching, aren't I?
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Post#40
Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:14 pm by GrandAdmiralDan

xTitan wrote:I know that the Bucks are hoping to have someone in place by the end of the regular season, so we are looking at the next 2.5 weeks. If you remember Kohl said Babcock will be handling the draft, he said it matter of factly and with the desire to have someone hired by the end of the season, which makes you wonder, is Kohl going to split the job? I know his group of circle jerks view Babcock as an excellent player personnel guy and no decision is actually made without consulting the lawyers...so the disfunction known as the Bucks family could actually be growing. I also know Babcock wants, and still thinks he is a viable candidate for the job.


Yeah, that's why I couldn't buy into the belief that some people had that Kohl would change his meddling ways when bringing in a new GM.

Kohl, Walter, et al are ALREADY meddling with the new GM and they haven't even hired him yet! Any new GM is forced to keep Dave Babcock rather than bring in their own person if they want. THAT is meddling. And it's not that they just have to keep Babcock, but he is the one in charge of the draft. THAT is meddling.

Unless things get really wacky (Bucks go on a winning streak, etc.) we are going to have a top 10 draft pick to either use or trade. That should be a major tool that the new GM should have at his disposal when attempting to adjust our roster. But he won't get to. Babcock will be in charge of the draft. But of course Babcock won't ultimately be in charge. When he decides who we need to draft, he will then have to run it by Kohl, Walter, etc. just like Harris had to do when he decided we should take Yi.

Doug Collins turned down the opportunity to coach and run the front office at $5M per season. He also rejected a $4M offer to do one or the other.


Most of the other disgusting things about this overall story have already been mentioned in this thread. Rick Sund? Yuck. I've been telling people since the day Harris was fired that we will end up with either Rick Sund or Dave Babcock as the new GM. Because that's how we roll. I even recall placing the likelihood of that happening at 90% in a few of the conversations I've had regarding this topic.

But the above quote is what I want to focus on because that is a big part of why I have been saying it will either be Rick Sund or Dave Babcock.

If we want a top candidate to come HERE and actually put himself in the position of having to deal with Kohl, Walter, etc. then we have to not only pay top dollar, we have to tack on a little extra.

I never really wanted Doug Collins anyway (I don't know why Herb Kohl remains so enamored with him still) but OF COURSE he is not going to come here for just $4 mil as either the coach or GM. That is not enough money. And the fact that we also asked if he'd do the other job ALSO for only an extra $1 mil is absurd. That is a total Kohl/Walter move right there. An opportunity to attempt to save a little money. WTF is wrong with us?

If all we are willing to pay a "name" candidate like Doug Collins is $4 mil, then I'm sure that our offers (if any are even made) to the lesser known (to the average fan) front office people like Tommy Sheppard, Dennis Lindsey, and David Griffin are going to be WAY too low for them to come here. Kohl/Walter will think they are being generous with an offer of $1.75 mil per year on a 3 year contract and all of those good candidates will either laugh at or take offense at the offer (maybe both) and then stay in their current jobs.

Kohl will say he tried his best (which will be a lie, because Kohl got too cheap on stuff that isn't a player salary AGAIN) and hire Rick Sund to at least be able to say that he did indeed bring someone in from the outside with a "fresh perspective"

But depending on how cheap he goes with Sund, maybe Sund won't even come here. It is already known that Sund wasn't all that interested in coming here and it was the Northwestern AD's job he was interested in.
So Kohl will say he tried his best. And then Dave Babcock will become our new GM.

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