Tom Moore 2.0

[ryst]

oh i saw what the sixers did with the huge expring contract of Andre Miller...i mean that was great business...
i wonder how come this teams will always laugh in the face of the sixers yet they made lopsided trades with other teams, maybe Stefanski is telling them jokes?
Thad is just a "young prospect"? reading this board i was under the impression Thad is the next coming of juses crist
so according to this board Thad is one of the best young players in the game , a sure all star,maybe even the next great player but is not good enough to help the suns get rid of the player who they are trying to trade for the past year?

we just heard that the sixers dont want to offer more then one year minimum contracts because they dont want to pay more money and get closer to the tax
they offered Bibby(who i dont even like) one year deal , i am sure he did the laughing in there faces thing...
those are the moves of a cheap owner who spend enough money and dont want to spend more, we are just like the suns when Sarver decided he will not spend any more money at all , they didnt sign anyone ' let free agents walk and make stupid trades to get rid of good and decent players, well at least the suns had a few years of good basketball

[radrmd216]

If I was the GM I would have traded Miller at the deadline for whatever I coudl get because hes been a crutch and we need to see what the Sixers can do without Miller. I guess Ed wanting didn't want to trade Miller as an expiring and maybe there wasn't much to be had for his expiring. You can come up with examples if you want. I think Ed wanting to make the playoffs and Miller gave the Sixers the ebst shot.

Theres no ways around it the Sixers NEEDED to make the playoffs after signing Elton Brand.

What lopsided trade have the Suns made? The Richardson trade didn't work out but it wasn't lopsided. I'd take Richardson over Diaw anyday. They also traded Shaq for expiring contracts to clear a ton of salary. About 90% of Sixers fans wanted Miller traded but that is in the past now and right now there are very few moves to make. Another poster made a great point before, A GM gets criticized for every single move he makes (rightfuly so) but a no one ever calls out a fan on the ridiculous things he or she has said in the past.

[ryst]

many teams make lopsided trades.
every trade for expiring contracts is a lopsided trade in terms of talnet.
so when teams have those expiring contracts most of them make the best of it and get impact players in lopsided trades.
when the sixers had the chance to do that they did nothing.

i dont think fans are criticizing Stefanski moves, he has no moves , he did nothing!
you put a monkey as the sixers GM and he resign Iguodala and sign Brand(the best free agent in the market) and thats all what Stefanski did so far.

[radrmd216]

The difference is that the sixers expring contract was playing very well and pretty much most players whos contracts are expiring are not. I was for signing brand becuase the Sixers were suc a young team, but Ed created cap sapce with a pretty creative trade and convinced Brand and more importantly Brand's agent that the Sixers were the place to sign not Golden State who was offering a lot more money. Could you make a post of some realistic options that don't have the sixers overpaying someone with an MLE contract for 3 years.

[ryst]

i made a lot of realistic options , you just choose not to see it like that.

Jefferson was playing well last year,so did Shaq in the second half of the year and vince carter was playing better then andre miller
yet they were traded for expiring contracts and fillers

like many users of this board like to say, you my friend are drinking the Ed Stefanski cool aid...well good luck with that...

all i see is a clueless GM who sit on his ass and do nothing , reminds me a lot of John Paxon in the last few years(before he made that deadline deal for salmons and miller which Stefanski will never do because salmons and miller are not game changers and have many years left on there contract and we cant spend that much money on players who will not lead thr sixers to a championship)
lets hope that like Paxon the sixers will get lucky and get the first pick in the draft...somehow i dont see it

[radrmd216]

all i see is a clueless GM who sit on his ass and do nothing , reminds me a lot of John Paxon in the last few years(before he made that deadline deal for salmons and miller which Stefanski will never do because salmons and miller are not game changers and have many years left on there contract and we cant spend that much money on players who will not lead thr sixers to a championship)
lets hope that like Paxon the sixers will get lucky and get the first pick in the draft...somehow i dont see it

I hope Ed doesnt get players whos contracts are horrible and won't help the sixers win a championship.

Someone else please tell Ryst the options he talks about are not realistic at all. If the sixers had Amare, Bosh, or kevin Matrin we would not trade them for Dalembert, Thad, or Brand. I don't know why so many fans never think from the perspective of the other team.

Maybe a thread can be made where if people want to keep debating they can becuase I don't to interfer and go off topic in Tom's thread. I'll call the thread "Off-Topic Debating" but TGP can change the name or lock the thread if he thinks it isn't a good idea.

[ryst]

look, its very clear you got your opinion and i got mine, its not gonna change and its all good.

i think that making the Brand abd Dalmebert untradable is crazy.
i also think that Thad Young can get Amare to the sixers in the right trade.

thats why Stefanski is the GM , to make those delas happen, and if he cant do it one on one trade , you always have the option of combine other teams(just like Dallas did the other day)

try harder,work harder , make things go

dont sit on your ass and do nothing telling us fans fairy tales about untradeable players while the entire league is in a trade franzy to get better.

[radrmd216]

Ryst i don't know why yo aren't giving Ed time. Very few teams in the league have made moves and the teams that have are the contending teams. The Sixers are NOT a contending team.

Why would those other teams trade the sixers their best player. If the sixers had Amare wouldn't you want to keep him and try to work on a contract extension or trade him for a better package than what the sixers could offer.

[radrmd216]

Tom sorry for interrupting your thead.

To get back on topic do you think the sixers are making the right moves this summer. If you were the GM would you overpay some MLE type players for 3 years or let the young guys play and get a better sense or how the roster can be further manipulated.

[ryst]

i gave Stefanki the time since he got to the sixers and never said anything bad about him until i saw what he is doing(well not doing) this summer.

what do you mean why teams give their best player? we see that all the time.
teams want to rebuild , teams want to get rid of salary , there are many reasons
the nets gave away their best player
the bucks gave away their best player from last season(redd and bogut were injured most of the year)
when the lakers traded Shaq he was their best player
Minnesta traded Garnett , their best player
ths sonics traded ray allen , their best player
i can go on and on
this kind of thing happen every year

[radrmd216]

Yes those kinds of trades happen every year but why would they happen with the sixers. Would they happen with the sixers because you want them too. Ryst there is a fan like you of another team that is saying the same thing. The sixers current roster just doesn't have the pieces that can get a top player thats currently on the trade market. The Sixers will not trade Iggy, Thad and Speights for Amamre and that is probably the type of deal the Suns and asking for. They definitely arent asking for just Dalembert and Thad. I guess the sixers are just an unlucky team that doesn't have an expiring contract this offseason. Maybe the sixers could have traded Miller, Thad, Speights, and a 1st round pick for Amare because thats how much the Sns would have wanted if not more.

[Westbrook36ptII]

All this is, is another case of someone that thinks they know the market, the value, and the GM chatter more than the GMs themselves.

You think these things, but you don't base them on anything of substance. You just point out random deals in the past that have nothing to do with this situation now.

[radrmd216]

I don't understand why sixers fans think the sixers are the only team thats not making moves. People say the sixers are cheap and never make the big move. I bet the fans of almost every other team say that. Why can't another team trade for Amare and finally make the big move the fans have been asking for. Why dot he sixers have to be the team making that trade. There are people like us wanting their team to make a big move but only so many moves can be made and there is 30 teams. People need to look at things from another person's perspective becuase looking at something from one angle doesn't allow for sound judgement.

[ryst]

every person has there own thinking

i dont know anything about the market, i got no inside info, i got nothing
all i know is what i see, and i see deals going on all over the place

the kind of thinking that to get Aamre will take Iggy,Thad ans Speights is probebly the same thinking Stefanski has , so he doesnt do anything about it

i wonder if the lakers were thinking that to get Gasol will take Odom and Bynum because that probebly what people like you guys would have said , i mean memphis wont give Gasol for expiring deals and a young player, he is one of the top bigs in the game.

guess what this kind of things happen , because there are GM's in this league who work there ass off and do something to make their team better , instead of taking the wait and see approach.

[radrmd216]

Ryst I don't know how to make you understand. Everybody is saying what te value is and your sayig it doesnt matter the Gm jus has to work harder. Ed could work every minute of everyday but he will have the same players on the roster to amke trades with. What if Ed makes a draft night trade next year and gets Demarcus Cousins and Cousins turns about to be one of the NBA's top players. I think that has as good as a chance as happening as the sixers screwing the Suns for Amamre or the Raptors for Bosh.

[corwin]

Corwin, I think player's agnts demand escalating contracts becuase a new contract can be based on the previous one. I know Tom knows the actual numbers, but it might be something like a certain starting salary for years of sevice or 125% of the previous contract so Brand and Iggy would definitely want the last year of their contract to be very expensive.

That's a good point & his final year is quite high. Still, it was a negotiation & Ed gave him $80 million (higher than most expected). There are plenty of instances where contracts are structured as flat salaries, i.e. Gerald Wallace or declining ones, I.e. Hinrich, & Matt Carroll. Any one of us could have come up with the contract structure that Ed gave Iguodala & we're not MBAs.

[tmoore]

New York Daily News is reporting that the Knicks could turn their attention to Andre Miller if they cannot come to terms with Grant Hill. The Knicks only have the MLE, though, and Miller wants more. If Blazers get Hinrich in a three-team deal, they'd have no need for Miller and eliminate another option for him.

[tmoore]

Corwin, I think player's agents demand escalating contracts because a new contract can be based on the previous one. I know Tom knows the actual numbers, but it might be something like a certain starting salary for years of service or 125% of the previous contract so Brand and Iggy would definitely want the last year of their contract to be very expensive.

Balloon payments were allowed in older CBAs, but not now. If a team re-signs its own player, annual increases can be 10.5 percent of the first-year salary. For example, $10 million in first year can be $11.05 in second, $12.10 in third, $13.15 in fourth, etc. If a player signs with another team, increases are capped at 8 percent. That's one advantage of sign-and-trades for the outgoing player.

[tmoore]

Stefanski didn't know the economy, cap and luxury tax were going to drop like they have, but I said from the start he should've given Iguodala the qualifying offer of $3.8 mill to play 2008-09 and let AI9 become a FA. As it turns out, Iguodala would've been fortunate to end up with five years and $57 mill -- which only the Sixers could pay him and was the offer he turned down from Billy King in Oct. 2007 -- this summer. That would saved millions per season from the six years and $80-$85 mill he got.

[bebopdeluxe]

Another smart play by the Wharton grad.

I swear, the more I see the ramifications of Stefanski's decisions, the harder it is to differentiate the guy from Billy King.