"Kirk Hinrich is the best on ball defender in the NBA...

s1a0m1m2 · Post #1 » by **s1a0m1m2** » Fri Apr 9, 2010 3:41 pm

[youtube]...at his position"

- Doug Collins (or one of the TNT announcers from last night) quoting Phoenix Suns Coach Alvin Gentry

So, Kirk is the BEST on ball defender in the NBA at his position...

We have seen him give Dwyane Wade hell for the past several years (there is a reason why Wade averages fewer points in the UC than any other gym, and it ain't the rims; He scores fewer points against the bulls home or away than any against any other team except one)

Now, maybe he isn't worth 10 mil a year, but Hinrich definitely has a lot of value. If the Bulls did get rid of Hinrich, we would be MUCH weaker defensively. Without defense we can't get out on the break, and our poor offense would be even worse.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx_ZU-qRD1Q[/youtube]

anorexorcism · Post #2 » by **anorexorcism** » Fri Apr 9, 2010 3:44 pm

oh god. please stop the pain.

hinrich is a good defender but all his other flaws so heavily outweigh the rest that he is not worth it at all. not for this team.

he used to be such a damn good player. now he's just a waste. please dump this fool ASAP.

Godzilla039 · Post #3 » by **Godzilla039** » Fri Apr 9, 2010 3:45 pm

Gentry also said that Kobe is the most clutch player in the history of basketball ..

Post #4 » by **CellarDoor** » Fri Apr 9, 2010 7:06 pm

Coaches will, in general, compliment those they play against. It's a matter of decorum. They'll also speak in hyperbole. They can also be a Skip Bayless style prisoner of the moment, and make assertions based off of that. This is nothing new.

theheel · Post #5 » by **theheel** » Fri Apr 9, 2010 7:13 pm

Id agree that he is one of the best all around defenders in the league. But we need something so much more from our SG postion. Like consistant 3pt shooting so we can space the floor.

If we didnt have rose and hinrich was our pg i would be happy to have him. But 10 million or whatever the amount is for a very good backup pg but an average to below average SG is not money well spent. Id hate to see him go, but as of now i think it is a must, unless he is willing to resign with the bulls after his deal is over for a significantly less and be willing to play the backup for both guard spots, while we get a real SG who is more physically capable of playing the position and can spread the floor consistently.

Grand Champ · Post #6 » by **Grand Champ** » Fri Apr 9, 2010 7:15 pm

Impossible because "Taj Gibson is the best on ball defender on the Bulls" according to NBA swami and expert Neil Funk

Future Coach · Post #7 » by **Future Coach** » Fri Apr 9, 2010 7:31 pm

Depending on who Hinrich is guarding he may be up there with the best on ball defenders. I say that because anyone Kobe's size or taller gives him a lot of trouble; additionally, anyone as quick as say Tony Parker or Ronda, he can not stay in front of. So for people the size of Flip Murray (ie Wade), he is quite good defensively, I'm not sure about the absolute best in the league though.

What I do think he may be the best in the league at right now is sticking with people off the ball. In regards to running through off ball screens and still being able to get into position to deny a pass at times, he may very well be the best guard in the league at it. I really think his off ball defense is pretty great, with the only potential exception being that sometimes he swipes at the ball rather than sliding all the way over and trying to cutoff the man he's helping/sagging on to. It's nice he's getting noticed for his defensive effort on the ball, but his effort and execution on defense while off the ball is really what I think deserves more attention.

In any event, like others have mentioned, he is far too expensive for a backup player. If he was our starting pg he might be reasonably paid, but he's not good enough at sg to be paid the way he is and he's not our starting pg so overall he is now an example of bad cap management.

theheel · Post #8 » by **theheel** » Fri Apr 9, 2010 7:39 pm

Future Coach wrote:Depending on who Hinrich is guarding he may be up there with the best on ball defenders. I say that because anyone Kobe's size or taller gives him a lot of trouble; additionally, anyone as quick as say Tony Parker or Ronda, he can not stay in front of. So for people the size of Flip Murray (ie Wade), he is quite good defensively, I'm not sure about the absolute best in the league though.

What I do think he may be the best in the league at right now is sticking with people off the ball. In regards to running through off ball screens and still being able to get into position to deny a pass at times, he may very well be the best guard in the league at it. I really think his off ball defense is pretty great, with the only potential exception being that sometimes he swipes at the ball rather than sliding all the way over and trying to cutoff the man he's helping/sagging on to. It's nice he's getting noticed for his defensive effort on the ball, but his effort and execution on defense while off the ball is really what I think deserves more attention.

In any event, like others have mentioned, he is far too expensive for a backup player. If he was our starting pg he might be reasonably paid, but he's not good enough at sg to be paid the way he is and he's not our starting pg so overall he is now an example of bad cap management.

or an example of what happens when you luck into the #1 pick, and you chose the best player available rather than need. You get redundant talent and someone has to compromise, and hinrich compromised at the detriment to his stats instead of fighting or demanding a trade. True, his stat decline started the year before rose in that dreadful season (wallace/skiles/boylen/hughes fiasco), but there was a lot more going on than just hinrich that season... we dont need to rehash it do we?.

All in all, at SG he is currently the best we got, and we NEED to get an upgrade there next year if we ever want to be taken seriously as a contender.

Future Coach · Post #9 » by **Future Coach** » Fri Apr 9, 2010 7:51 pm

theheel wrote:or an example of what happens when you luck into the #1 pick, and you chose the best player available rather than need. You get redundant talent and someone has to compromise, and hinrich compromised at the detriment to his stats instead of fighting or demanding a trade. True, his stat decline started the year before rose in that dreadful season (wallace/skiles/boylen/hughes fiasco), but there was a lot more going on than just hinrich that season... we dont need to rehash it do we?.

All in all, at SG he is currently the best we got, and we NEED to get an upgrade there next year if we ever want to be taken seriously as a contender.

I certainly agree that it is all because we lucked into the #1 pick. Also, I think Hinrich has handled Rose being handed the keys to kingdom very well. Granted, he is getting compensated very well financially for taking the backseat, but some players do still complain in his situation.

But in regards to being an example of bad cap management, it's more that management still felt paying hinrich was still a worthwhile investment despite Rose's presence on the team and the fact that keeping hinrich meant others would have to go or could not be brought in his place after he should have been traded. I understand keeping hinrich around for at least a portion of Rose's rookie season, kind of as a safety-net option, but given Rose's quality of play we should not still think of Hinrich as a needed or worthwhile investment. As you said, his presence is redundant... except defensively of course (although if thabo was still here that would not be true).

jump · Post #10 » by **jump** » Fri Apr 9, 2010 9:21 pm

if he could develop a reliable 3 ball, he'd be extremely valuable.

theheel · Post #11 » by **theheel** » Fri Apr 9, 2010 9:55 pm

Future Coach wrote:
theheel wrote:or an example of what happens when you luck into the #1 pick, and you chose the best player available rather than need. You get redundant talent and someone has to compromise, and hinrich compromised at the detriment to his stats instead of fighting or demanding a trade. True, his stat decline started the year before rose in that dreadful season (wallace/skiles/boylen/hughes fiasco), but there was a lot more going on than just hinrich that season... we dont need to rehash it do we?.

All in all, at SG he is currently the best we got, and we NEED to get an upgrade there next year if we ever want to be taken seriously as a contender.

I certainly agree that it is all because we lucked into the #1 pick. Also, I think Hinrich has handled Rose being handed the keys to kingdom very well. Granted, he is getting compensated very well financially for taking the backseat, but some players do still complain in his situation.

But in regards to being an example of bad cap management, it's more that management still felt paying hinrich was still a worthwhile investment despite Rose's presence on the team and the fact that keeping hinrich meant others would have to go or could not be brought in his place after he should have been traded. I understand keeping hinrich around for at least a portion of Rose's rookie season, kind of as a safety-net option, but given Rose's quality of play we should not still think of Hinrich as a needed or worthwhile investment. As you said, his presence is redundant... except defensively of course (although if thabo was still here that would not be true).

i dont think we got any worthwhile offers for him, and i am not a fan of dumping as a salary dump and relying on pargo/law to be our backups. he does provide some unique things that help this team win. He is still an upgrade over cap relief if we wanted to make the playoffs this year (it helps when free agency comes this offseason that we were a playoff team), so i wouldnt call that mismanagement of cap.

Flight 23 · Post #12 » by **Flight 23** » Fri Apr 9, 2010 11:15 pm

The only people who bash Kirk are the delirious fans who seem to think his contract is going to prevent us from signing 3 big free agents. As if that was going to happen even with 100% of our cap space open.

Kirk is the starting PG on any team in the league who doesn't already have an All Star caliber PG.

Mr. Tibbs · Post #13 » by **Mr. Tibbs** » Fri Apr 9, 2010 11:36 pm

Godzilla039 wrote:Gentry also said that Kobe is the most clutch player in the history of basketball ..

that doesn't bother me half as much as the statement about hinrich

kodo · Post #14 » by **kodo** » Fri Apr 9, 2010 11:40 pm

We have seen him give Dwyane Wade hell for the past several years (there is a reason why Wade averages fewer points in the UC than any other gym, and it ain't the rims

I remember only 1 real shutdown of Wade, and I thought Thabo was responsible for that not Kirk.

But Kirk did do a damn good job on Pierce last year, I'll give him credit where it's due. To be bad he missed layups on the other end to offset his fine performance on the defensive end.