brassviews wrote:Giniboli is of Italian descent as are most Argentines.
Manu and other argentinians plays for Argentina NT NOT Italian, nuff said..
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brassviews wrote:Giniboli is of Italian descent as are most Argentines.
brassviews wrote:Giniboli is of Italian descent as are most Argentines.
gadiegolo wrote:brassviews wrote:Giniboli is of Italian descent as are most Argentines.
As well as most US citizens are of European descent, does that mean they're European? No
jinxed wrote:gadiegolo wrote:brassviews wrote:Giniboli is of Italian descent as are most Argentines.
As well as most US citizens are of European descent, does that mean they're European? No
No, they are not European because they are USA citizens. Ginobili holds duel citizenship in both Argentina and Italy. He also started his career in Italy, where he won the euroleague final four mvp and the euroleague championship.
However that is not what I included him on the list.
The reason Nash, Olajuwon, Ewing and TD are not considered international on these lists is because they played college ball here in the US.
IMO it seemed as if the OP was asking about stars over in Europe. People who played in Europe. Either in the Euroleague or in international competition. Ginobili was a star in Europe before he came to the US.
MrSparkle wrote:1. Dirk
2. Sabonis
3. Ginobili
4. Pau
Hesitant to not put Sabonis at top, but his short and late NBA career unfortunately puts him at a disadvantage to Dirk's accolades. Despite that and Dirk's NBA success, no doubt in my mind Sabonis was the better player. Basically a 7'3 version of Larry Bird; more post moves than 3P shots. His huge skill-set puts him on par with the best NBA centers of his time IMO.
5. Kukoc / Petrovic - I share the opinion that there's a big gap between these 2 and the guys above. Great player and 6-chip contributor he was, Kukoc by no means could ever handle being a 1st option, unlike the top guys. Petrovic could score with the best of them, but never got a chance to develop his defense.
gadiegolo wrote:My problem with Sabonis is that it's bloody difficult to differentiate between what he could have been and what he actually was. Arvydas was and always will be that unbelievably talented half-myth/half-player that played behind the iron curtain in those USSR obscure years and overplayed those young American players (e.g. David Robinson) in a fashion no one ever did before.
I also remember how difficult was for him to run up and down the court when playing for Real Madrid but his teammates had no other choice but to wait for him cause despite his physical drawbacks at the time, he was able to think ahead of anybody else on the court, making him unstoppable once he occupied the post. being 4 inches taller than almost anybody he played against in Europe also helped. In fact, Muresan, as technically unpolished as he was, was the only player that really slowed Sabonis down in Europe because he was basically taller than him (which is no small feat when talking about Sabas).
In that list, I would put Pau ahead of Manu but I guess that's a tight race so I won't complain much about that one.
MrSparkle wrote:gadiegolo wrote:My problem with Sabonis is that it's bloody difficult to differentiate between what he could have been and what he actually was. Arvydas was and always will be that unbelievably talented half-myth/half-player that played behind the iron curtain in those USSR obscure years and overplayed those young American players (e.g. David Robinson) in a fashion no one ever did before.
I also remember how difficult was for him to run up and down the court when playing for Real Madrid but his teammates had no other choice but to wait for him cause despite his physical drawbacks at the time, he was able to think ahead of anybody else on the court, making him unstoppable once he occupied the post. being 4 inches taller than almost anybody he played against in Europe also helped. In fact, Muresan, as technically unpolished as he was, was the only player that really slowed Sabonis down in Europe because he was basically taller than him (which is no small feat when talking about Sabas).
In that list, I would put Pau ahead of Manu but I guess that's a tight race so I won't complain much about that one.
I hear ya. It's a tough call. Anyway while we're at it let's enjoy some short clips:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZSuksGM ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZizsAdutYo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KFjmOHT ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrLxl0NxZGU
I'll also add... Scola should actually be mentioned in 5th with Kukoc and Petrovic. He's had a quieter NBA career, and for a while was in Ginobili's shadow, but if he wasn't spending his time on a rebuilding Rockets team, and was playing with a superstar (Kobe, Rose, Duncan/Spurs, etc.), I'm sure he'd be 2nd/3rd option on a contender. He's got the complete skill-set, effort and has been injury free. It's a hypothetical stretch, but I can see Scola still helping Lakers win 2 rings if he replaces Pau, given there'd also be Odom and Bynum.
gadiegolo wrote:My problem with Sabonis is that it's bloody difficult to differentiate between what he could have been and what he actually was. Arvydas was and always will be that unbelievably talented half-myth/half-player that played behind the iron curtain in those USSR obscure years and overplayed those young American players (e.g. David Robinson) in a fashion no one ever did before.
RPzB wrote:gadiegolo wrote:My problem with Sabonis is that it's bloody difficult to differentiate between what he could have been and what he actually was. Arvydas was and always will be that unbelievably talented half-myth/half-player that played behind the iron curtain in those USSR obscure years and overplayed those young American players (e.g. David Robinson) in a fashion no one ever did before.
You are saying this as if Robinson was a kid and Sabonis was 5 years older fully matured man. In fact Arvydas Romas Sabonis (born December 19 1964) and David Maurice Robinson (born August 6, 1965). DAAAYUM! Aniways, the fact Robinson looked like a kid was because he was domianted by Sabonis.
bbms wrote:How about Oscar Schmidt?
He played in five Olympics (the second person to do so after TeĆ³filo Cruz) and was the top scorer in three of them. However, he never went past the quarterfinals. In 1980 he played 7 games and scored 169 points for a 24.1 average. He again scored 169 points in 7 games in 1984. His best Olympic performance was the 1988 Seoul Olympics. He scored 338 points for an average of 42.3 points per game. In 1992 he scored 198 points in 8 games, and in 1996 he scored 219 points in 8 games. In 38 career Olympic basketball games, Schmidt scored 1093 points for a record 28.8 points per game average.
He scored 49,703 points in his top-level career, the most ever.[1]
Greco21 wrote:Gasol is just lucky. There is no Yugoslavia and NBA is way far from what it was in the 80s and 90s. In big tournaments he has the referees giving him asists.
Clueless or not...
Never Gasol.
Petrovic, Gallis or if you prefer Gallis, Petrovic .-
dr. strangelove wrote:bbms wrote:How about Oscar Schmidt?
He played in five Olympics (the second person to do so after TeĆ³filo Cruz) and was the top scorer in three of them. However, he never went past the quarterfinals. In 1980 he played 7 games and scored 169 points for a 24.1 average. He again scored 169 points in 7 games in 1984. His best Olympic performance was the 1988 Seoul Olympics. He scored 338 points for an average of 42.3 points per game. In 1992 he scored 198 points in 8 games, and in 1996 he scored 219 points in 8 games. In 38 career Olympic basketball games, Schmidt scored 1093 points for a record 28.8 points per game average.
He scored 49,703 points in his top-level career, the most ever.[1]
Oscar Schmidt couldn't defend my granmother on a wheelchair.
droponov wrote:Petrovic wasn't even in the same planet of Gasol. I think Drazen is overrated these days because of his premature death. Also because he was a scorer and people tend to underrate non-scoring contributions. Petrovic was a very good player but not an All-NBA type like Gasol. A very good scorer and good shooter with awful defense and rebounding and pedestrian playmaking.
dr. strangelove wrote:bbms wrote:How about Oscar Schmidt?
He played in five Olympics (the second person to do so after TeĆ³filo Cruz) and was the top scorer in three of them. However, he never went past the quarterfinals. In 1980 he played 7 games and scored 169 points for a 24.1 average. He again scored 169 points in 7 games in 1984. His best Olympic performance was the 1988 Seoul Olympics. He scored 338 points for an average of 42.3 points per game. In 1992 he scored 198 points in 8 games, and in 1996 he scored 219 points in 8 games. In 38 career Olympic basketball games, Schmidt scored 1093 points for a record 28.8 points per game average.
He scored 49,703 points in his top-level career, the most ever.[1]
Oscar Schmidt couldn't defend my granmother on a wheelchair.
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