Iman Shumpert vs Rookie Dwyane Wade

dogrufus · Post #1 » by **dogrufus** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:57 am

So I have a Celtics fan buddy and we talk hoops a lot, and a lot of good natured ribbing and banter take place with regards to the respective fortunes of our squads of basketballers. Obviously he's been riding high in recent years while I've had to endure one of the top 5 worst fan-decades in basketball history.

Well, now that things are looking a bit down for the Celts I've taken to trolling him about Iman Shumpert, blithely saying ridiculous things like him being the next Wade. And then Shumpert kept playing well, and I chanced to look at some stats... better mark in each category is bolded:

WADE (age 22)
.530 TS%, 17.6 PER, .103 WS/48, DRtg 101
Per36: 16.8 pts, 4.2 reb, 4.7 ast, 1.5 stl, 0.6 blk, 3.3 tov

SHUMPERT (age 21)
.534 TS%, 16.9 PER, .116 WS/48, DRtg 99
Per36: 15.6 pts, 4.7 reb, 4.3 ast, 2.6 stl, 0.5 blk, 2.6 tov

Yes, I know I'm ridiculous, Shumpert has played only x number of games and whatever.... But I'm just saying this is all the hard statistical NBA (and it's not like he hasn't looked awesome on the eye test) information we have so far. And this is happening with Shump being a year younger than Wade was during his rookie season.

Look, we all knew Fields was a solid role player at best- his value was that we found a rotation guy for nothing. But if Shumpert just maintains his current level of play this season, my jabs at my friend will increasingly become statements of fact. I for one officially grant Knicks fans permission to get excited about him maybe being more than the next Larry Hughes.

emo · Post #2 » by **emo** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:59 am

dogrufus wrote:Yes, I know I'm ridiculous

Agreed.

MaseInYourFace · Post #3 » by **MaseInYourFace** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:00 am

This is not good...

Fury · Post #4 » by **Fury** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:01 am

No he definitely reminds me of rookie Wade. But in order to continue that development, he's going to have to drive the ball in more like Wade did. The problem is Wade had control of the team. It was him Odom and Butler so he got a lot of touches. Right now, Iman ain't deferring **** other than running the offense so maybe he will be able to do what he has to do even with two stars.

ComboGuardCity · Post #5 » by **ComboGuardCity** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:02 am

MaseInYourFace wrote:This is not good...

Post #6 » by **Manhattan Project** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:05 am

Do people not remember what Wade did in the playoffs in his rookie year? With that roster?

Fury · Post #7 » by **Fury** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:06 am

I remember what Wade did in the season and he developed his mid range as the year went on. That was the difference.

boomann21 · Post #8 » by **boomann21** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:07 am

dogrufus · Post #9 » by **dogrufus** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:10 am

emo wrote:
dogrufus wrote:Yes, I know I'm ridiculous

Agreed.

MaseInYourFace wrote:This is not good...

ComboGuardCity wrote:
MaseInYourFace wrote:This is not good...

Aaand these thoughtful, quality posts from my fellow Knick fans have reminded me why I usually stick to Player Comparisons even on the exceedingly rare occasion when I am excited about something related to our team.

Marty McFly · Post #10 » by **Marty McFly** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:11 am

ok enough of these threads. you guys are gonna jinx the kid.

Normalyute · Post #11 » by **Normalyute** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:12 am

Big shoes to fill

Post #12 » by **Manhattan Project** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:14 am

dogrufus wrote: I for one officially grant Knicks fans permission to get excited about him maybe being more than the next Larry Hughes.

Also wanted to add, but being a 20-4-4-2 type player with great defense, what the hell is wrong with that?

ComboGuardCity · Post #13 » by **ComboGuardCity** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:15 am

Michael Jordan First Game: 16 points (5-16)
Marshon Brooks Second Game: 17 points (5-12)

Goat?

MaseInYourFace · Post #14 » by **MaseInYourFace** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:16 am

Manhattan Project wrote:
dogrufus wrote: I for one officially grant Knicks fans permission to get excited about him maybe being more than the next Larry Hughes.

Also wanted to add, but being a 20-4-4-2 type player with great defense, what the hell is wrong with that?

Because he only did that one season. Most of his career was disappointing...

Guano · Post #15 » by **Guano** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:16 am

Manhattan Project wrote:
dogrufus wrote: I for one officially grant Knicks fans permission to get excited about him maybe being more than the next Larry Hughes.

Also wanted to add, but being a 20-4-4-2 type player with great defense, what the hell is wrong with that?

Ain't nothin wrong wit dat.

Fury · Post #16 » by **Fury** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:18 am

Apparently no one is allowed to make player comparisons ever. Only almost kinda good players but not stars ok!

CrazyKnicks · Post #17 » by **CrazyKnicks** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:25 am

Fury wrote:Apparently no one is allowed to make player comparisons ever. Only almost kinda good players but not stars ok!

The guy played like 4 games and he's being compared to one of the best guards in the nba, does that seem reasonable to you?

MaseInYourFace · Post #18 » by **MaseInYourFace** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:25 am

Fury wrote:Apparently no one is allowed to make player comparisons ever. Only almost kinda good players but not stars ok!

Well speaking for only myself I don't like comparsons too much. I rarely post in these type of threads. They are a good way to talk for pages and pages about nothing really. Plus comparing him to wade is just not a good thing. For one he hasn't really done enough to compare on, two it invites trolls, three comparing a rookie barely starting his career to a future HOF'er is setting the guy up to be a disappointment. The probability of him being just as good or better than wade are not very high.

dogrufus · Post #19 » by **dogrufus** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:26 am

Manhattan Project wrote:
dogrufus wrote: I for one officially grant Knicks fans permission to get excited about him maybe being more than the next Larry Hughes.

Also wanted to add, but being a 20-4-4-2 type player with great defense, what the hell is wrong with that?

The fact that Hughes was a horrendously weak scorer, mainly. His career high TS% is well below Shumpert's current TS%, and most seasons he was below .500. That's Rajon Rondo territory. I want no part of the 20 in 20-4-4-2 if it's on that kind of efficiency.

Incidentally here's Hughes as a rookie:

.474 TS%, 16.7 PER, .117 WS/48

Per 36: 16.6 pts, 6.9 reb, 2.8 ast, 1.6 stl, 0.5 blk, 2.5 TOV

I guess he's fairly comparable, but more of a rebounder and less of a playmaker. Iman's steal rate is around Chris Paul levels right now, and Hughes has never managed that either.

It is notable that Hughes' rookie season PER would not be surpassed by him until 5 years later. He developed a 3 point shot but never greatly increased his efficiency, and it was by far his best rebounding season. Obviously I'm hoping Iman develops much more like Wade than Hughes- my only point was that based on the admittedly very limited data we have so far, the statistical comparison between Shump and rookie Wade is surprisingly very competitive, and that in itself is spectacular.

Bravery · Post #20 » by **Bravery** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:26 am

Did Wade ever hit that proverbial "rookie wall" when he first started out? I don't remember if he has.