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Montero Traded for Pineda

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Post#41 Re: Montero Traded for Pineda
Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:20 am by PR07

I'm okay with the trade. I'm not thrilled with it, but the Yankees are dealing from a position of strength to a clear weakness. This team has struggled to find a #2, and Pineda has nasty stuff and high upside. I'd be pissed if we had traded Jesus for someone like Gio Gonzalez, but at least Pineda looks the part of a future ace. You can almost always find a bat in free agency, it's hard to find a young frontline starter. While it would mean major financial problems down the road, it would be a beastly team for the Yanks to sign Prince Fielder now 8-)
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Post#42 Re: Montero Traded for Pineda
Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:04 am by DowNY

Great moves.

Montero is definitely a quality player. My hope is, we make a push for Cespedes. Wouldn't mind him sharing RF duties with swisher and mending the DH spot.

Have a feeling 1 more trade is in the pocket before spring training.
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Post#43 Re: Montero Traded for Pineda
Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:06 am by Dr. Detfink

F*ck Prince Fielder. Like his dad, the fat turd overrates his precious numbers...which was why when the Yanks told his dad to go to Japan, he slithered away. Let's work on someone who can run the bases a little and has great fundamentals with intangibles. There's plenty of premadonnas to overpay and get raped by the lux tax.
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Post#44 Re: Montero Traded for Pineda
Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:22 pm by rappa

Heres my thoughts on the trade and I'm one of the bigger supporters for Montero:

Montero was never going to catch with the Yankees and was only going to be a DH. The value of a DH is slim especially in comparison with an Ace SP who is 22 and built like a workhorse.

As most of you know, the yanks have a few aging bats, who are still signed to long-term deals, some who will need to be occupying the DH spot at least once a week. With Teix signed long-term and Montero unable to play an OF spot or C, his playing time would never be consistent after a year from now.

I think these two moves will be a pre-cursor to another move to acquire a bat that can play the OF. If I were Cash, I'd call the Marlins and offer Hughes for Morrison. Have him play 4th OF / DH this season and then take over for Swisher next season.

Either way, as much as I loved Montero, the fact is he will never be a catcher and 1b and dh are two spots the yankees have blocked and need open for the foreseeable future.

Some people forget that Pineda was a 22 yr old rookie last year who averaged over 9k per 9, held RH batters to the lowest BAA in the MLB and consistently throws 95-100 as a SP. If you think he's even scratched the surface of his potential, you're crazy. Put him on a team where he doesn't have to try and throw a shutout every time, this kid is going to flourish.

Stud young SP who are built like he is, 6'7 260 who already throw 95-100 and POUND the strike zone aren't easy to come by. Do you know how many Yankee SP have had seasons in which they averaged better than 9k per 9ip? Just two: Roger Clemens and David Cone.

This is also a guy who generated 24.2 swing and misses on his pitches last season as a ROOKIE. Only people ahead of him: Cole Hamels, Tim Lincecum, Mat Latos and Brandon Morrow. If you're going to trade Montero, this is the type of person you trade him for. He not only has front of the rotation stuff at this age, but he has the command to go with it. Throw in his age, inexperience and build, I'm still shocked we were able to get him for a player who's value deters since he can only DH.
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Post#45 Re: Montero Traded for Pineda
Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:52 pm by Pharmcat

id offer fielder a 1 yr 25 mill deal
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Post#46 Re: Montero Traded for Pineda
Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:10 pm by HCYanks

The Brewers already tried the one year deal tactic and Boras said no dice. Fielder is only coming on a big contract.

Pena would be a great pickup. He hit .255/.388/.504 against righties last year. Team him up with Andruw Jones's leftie hitting tendencies and you have one hell of a DH platoon.
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Post#47 Re: Montero Traded for Pineda
Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:31 pm by Rich Rane

Hmm...with a rotation of CC/Pineda/Kuroda/Nova/Garcia, do the Yanks trade Hughes or move him to the bullpen? Soriano to Robertson to Mo would probably be the most dependable after 6 innings. There's Logan and Wade. Joba is also coming back from Tommy John surgery. Damn, out of those 11 pitchers, only CC and Logan are lefties.
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Post#48 Re: Montero Traded for Pineda
Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:09 pm by Sark

Am I the only one that threw up a little in their mouth when you heard this news?
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Post#49 Re: Montero Traded for Pineda
Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:14 pm by moocow007

Rich Rane wrote:Hmm...with a rotation of CC/Pineda/Kuroda/Nova/Garcia, do the Yanks trade Hughes or move him to the bullpen? Soriano to Robertson to Mo would probably be the most dependable after 6 innings. There's Logan and Wade. Joba is also coming back from Tommy John surgery. Damn, out of those 11 pitchers, only CC and Logan are lefties.


Yeah I think other than figuring out who to put on the lineup card for opening day at DH, possibly getting another lefty would be a good idea. Of course if they bring in another lefty someone (of the 11) will need to go out and quality lefties don't grow on trees. Barring that, and assuming that the Yanks trade a pitcher for a bat (the new rumor) maybe taking a shot in the dark and signing someone like Brad Lidge to try to further intensify their bullpen and really make their entire pitching staff that much more potent. Lidge is (obviously) still looking for a closing gig but has said recently that he may have to accept different roles and that he may be ok with that. Having Lidge, Soriano, Chamberlain, Robertson and Rivera, in some combination, for pretty much almost every single 7th, 8th and 9th inning could be killer. Each of those guys can close or serve us setup or as 7th inning guys.
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Post#50 Re: Montero Traded for Pineda
Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:28 am by Pharmcat

every where i read pineada is a 2 pitch pitcher that needs to develop a 3rd pitch to attain ace status

isnt this the same problem that has plagued phil and burnett? the lack of a third pitch to keep hitters off balance when their fastball isnt on?

so whats the point of taking on a guy with the same issue?
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Post#51 Re: Montero Traded for Pineda
Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:40 am by HCYanks

Pineda's lack of a third pitch is an issue, but that doesn't make him like Hughes or Burnett. You can make the case that neither Pineda nor Hughes has proven he can handle a 200-inning workload. But Pineda has been given much less of an opportunity to make this case for himself, so even that's not completely fair. Comparing him to Burnett whatsoever is unfair because he's showed a level of command that Burnett never has.

Pineda's basically a solid changeup from being an ace; his fastball and slider are that good. He's not a guaranteed star, but neither is Jesus Montero. And it's not a matter of whether he'll be an elite hitter or just a good one. A lot of hitters have entered the majors with Montero's physical prowess and up and down track record and failed. One of Montero's new teammates on the Mariners is Justin Smaok, who had just as much of a hitting pedigree on arrival and has thus far done squat in the MLB.
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Post#52 Re: Montero Traded for Pineda
Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:25 am by Dr. Detfink

Montero will be a devastating hitter in the years to come. That's about it. IF Pineda can give the Yanks 3 good yrs, it's an even win. THAT'S how hard it is to find good pitching these days.

As for Hughes, NO ONE in their right skull is going to take Hughes and give up a good player. Not unless it's an NL team (see Ian Kennedy) and Hughes proves he can rebound then MAYBE you might get Matt Kemp kind of player...or a dump like Soriano.
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Post#53 Re: Montero Traded for Pineda
Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:01 pm by nykgeneralmanager

I don't like the trade. We aren't far removed from the days of refusing to include Montero in deals for Halladay or Lee. Now he comes to the big leagues and crushes major league pitching in a small sample size, and shows that he is made for this stadium, and we go and trade him for Michael freakin Pineda?

A year ago most scouts thought Pineda was destined for the bullpen because he is just a 2 pitch pitcher with incredible fly ball tendencies. I know he strikes a lot of guys out, but he did almost all of his damage in the first couple of months. Once the league saw him a few times and his elbow started barking (another concern) his numbers dropped off substantially.

Given the state of our offense, Montero could've been our cleanup hitter in a year or two. I don't want to hear non sense about not having room, you find 600 ABs for him between C, DH, and 1B. Does anybody remember how much of a joke our lineup was in the playoffs? Our pitching was fine.

What would have been wrong with having CC/Kuroda/Nova and then Burnett/Hughes/Garcia/Noesi filling out the rotation? That would have been better than last year, especially with Nova and Noesi only getting better and adding Kuroda to the mix.

All we hear from the Yankees is how amazing they think our young pitching prospects are like Banuelos and Betances, now we go out and trade our best HITTING prospect for a PITCHING prospect? Something doesn't add up there.

I'm sure in the end this deal will look good because there is no way Montero will put up beastly numbers in Safeco, but we would be much better served to have him in our lineup.

I don't want to hear about our great catching depth in the minors either. Romine is solid, hardly somebody to rely on based on his last couple of season. Gary Sanchez has been phenominal, but he hasn't made it out of A ball and he is at least 2-3 years away from even making the majors, so maybe 4-5 years away from having an actual strong impact.

Hopefully I'm wrong, but this is a bad move. If I'm trading a bat like Montero, I'm getting back way more of a sure thing than Michael Pineda. Last year most fans only would have traded Montero for Felix, now people are pumped about this?
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Post#54 Re: Montero Traded for Pineda
Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:03 pm by Pharmcat

nykgeneralmanager wrote:I don't like the trade. We aren't far removed from the days of refusing to include Montero in deals for Halladay or Lee. Now he comes to the big leagues and crushes major league pitching in a small sample size, and shows that he is made for this stadium, and we go and trade him for Michael freakin Pineda?

A year ago most scouts thought Pineda was destined for the bullpen because he is just a 2 pitch pitcher with incredible fly ball tendencies. I know he strikes a lot of guys out, but he did almost all of his damage in the first couple of months. Once the league saw him a few times and his elbow started barking (another concern) his numbers dropped off substantially.

Given the state of our offense, Montero could've been our cleanup hitter in a year or two. I don't want to hear non sense about not having room, you find 600 ABs for him between C, DH, and 1B. Does anybody remember how much of a joke our lineup was in the playoffs? Our pitching was fine.

What would have been wrong with having CC/Kuroda/Nova and then Burnett/Hughes/Garcia/Noesi filling out the rotation? That would have been better than last year, especially with Nova and Noesi only getting better and adding Kuroda to the mix.

All we hear from the Yankees is how amazing they think our young pitching prospects are like Banuelos and Betances, now we go out and trade our best HITTING prospect for a PITCHING prospect? Something doesn't add up there.

I'm sure in the end this deal will look good because there is no way Montero will put up beastly numbers in Safeco, but we would be much better served to have him in our lineup.

I don't want to hear about our great catching depth in the minors either. Romine is solid, hardly somebody to rely on based on his last couple of season. Gary Sanchez has been phenominal, but he hasn't made it out of A ball and he is at least 2-3 years away from even making the majors, so maybe 4-5 years away from having an actual strong impact.

Hopefully I'm wrong, but this is a bad move. If I'm trading a bat like Montero, I'm getting back way more of a sure thing than Michael Pineda. Last year most fans only would have traded Montero for Felix, now people are pumped about this?


thank you :lol:
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Post#55 Re: Montero Traded for Pineda
Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:35 pm by Christophersp10

Ummmmmm what? We are aren't far removed from refusing to trade Montero?

1. The Yankees and the Mariners had agreed to trade Montero for a 2 month rental of Cliff Lee back in the summer of 2010. The Mariners balked at the last second wanting to get someone who had MLB experience and traded Lee for Justin Smoak instead. Yankees had also offered Montero to the Royals for Soria. Royals decided not to to do the trade. So that is two instances right there of Cashman trying to trade Montero.

2. How many times have scouts been right about anything? They are like the weatherman on the news. It's all forecast and you cant predict what kind of impact is going to happen with a player on a new team, playing with another player or coach who can teach him something new. Look at Halladay. He lost a ton of games and had an era of 11.00 in his second season as a starter. The Blue Jays demoted him all the way back down to the low minors to work his way back up. His career after the fact was revolutionized when Mariano tought him the cutter during the All Star Game one year.

3. Do you know how hard it is to find good pitching? CC and Mussina are far and way the best pitchers the Yankees have brought in since 2000. Do you know how easy it is to find good hitting? Yankees during that time have brought in Swisher, Tex, Arod, Sheffield, Justice, Granderson, Matsui, Damon, Abreu. It's not that hard to find a guy who can hit 25 hr's plus with 100 RBI's via trade or open market. Lets not even mention the free agents in the past decade the Yankees have passed on. Manny Ramirez and Belle in 2000, Pujols and Fielder in 2012, Vlad in 2003.


That is the reason why the Yankees are putting their emphasis on pitching. They want young great cost controlled pitchers. Pitching is the most expensive thing to buy via trade or in free agency. Would you go out and give CJ Wilson 70 million? Hell no.
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Post#56 Re: Montero Traded for Pineda
Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:38 pm by GnarlesOakley

I like Montero but he is what he is. Not that good hitters grow on trees but unfortunately we are stuck with A-Rod who is going to have to be made a DH in a few years. As a catcher he would have struggled to be as good as even Posada defensively, and catching destroys ones shelf life.

Pineda isn't the finished product, but all signs are looking good. A potential ace is worth far more than a potential power hitter, the Yankees pitching pool is now so deep they can focus all their money on finding hitters. Does anyone not remember how much we struggled to bring in great pitchers in the past few years?
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Post#57 Re: Montero Traded for Pineda
Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:00 pm by nykgeneralmanager

Christophersp10 wrote:Ummmmmm what? We are aren't far removed from refusing to trade Montero?

1. The Yankees and the Mariners had agreed to trade Montero for a 2 month rental of Cliff Lee back in the summer of 2010. The Mariners balked at the last second wanting to get someone who had MLB experience and traded Lee for Justin Smoak instead. Yankees had also offered Montero to the Royals for Soria. Royals decided not to to do the trade. So that is two instances right there of Cashman trying to trade Montero.

2. How many times have scouts been right about anything? They are like the weatherman on the news. It's all forecast and you cant predict what kind of impact is going to happen with a player on a new team, playing with another player or coach who can teach him something new. Look at Halladay. He lost a ton of games and had an era of 11.00 in his second season as a starter. The Blue Jays demoted him all the way back down to the low minors to work his way back up. His career after the fact was revolutionized when Mariano tought him the cutter during the All Star Game one year.

3. Do you know how hard it is to find good pitching? CC and Mussina are far and way the best pitchers the Yankees have brought in since 2000. Do you know how easy it is to find good hitting? Yankees during that time have brought in Swisher, Tex, Arod, Sheffield, Justice, Granderson, Matsui, Damon, Abreu. It's not that hard to find a guy who can hit 25 hr's plus with 100 RBI's via trade or open market. Lets not even mention the free agents in the past decade the Yankees have passed on. Manny Ramirez and Belle in 2000, Pujols and Fielder in 2012, Vlad in 2003.


That is the reason why the Yankees are putting their emphasis on pitching. They want young great cost controlled pitchers. Pitching is the most expensive thing to buy via trade or in free agency. Would you go out and give CJ Wilson 70 million? Hell no.


1. True, if David Adams hadn't been hurt the trade would have happened. However, the Yankees refused to replace Adams with Nunez and maybe Nunez the deal breaker. My point being that if they were so willing to move Montero for the best pitcher in the world, they wouldn't have let Nunez be a deal breaker. They weren't trying to dump Montero. And Seattle looks to have admitted their mistake by dealing Pineda for Montero this time around, and are laughing that they held off on trading Lee for him but got him anyway for Pineda.

The Soria story is BS. Most baseball experts came out and claimed that discussions never got far, and there was nothing concrete that the Yankees ever offered something like that. It doesn't mean there weren't discussions, but if the Yankees did in fact ever make that offer, KC would have accepted before Cashman can hang up the phone.

I will give you the Lee one, although its not as if the Yankees were dying to move Montero for him or else Nunez would have been put in the trade.

2. I agree, scouts are not always correct. I would have just liked to move him for somebody most established and highly regarded. Hitters are always more of a "sure thing" than pitchers, so I don't like trading a hitter for pitcher at the exact same points in their career. You should receive some kind of premium in a trade for a hitter, instead we included a major league ready pitcher in Noesi and got another unknown in return in Campos.

3. I understand good pitching is hard to come by, that is why the Yankees have pumped all of these resources into their farm system and international scouting the past 5+ years, so that they would NOT have to do exactly what they did in this trade. Hughes, Kennedy, Joba, Banuelos, Brackman, Betances, Mitchell, Marshall, Nova, Noesi, and on and on. The time and money spent scouting these guys was done so that they would NOT have to trade Montero for a 22 year old pitcher.
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Post#58 Re: Montero Traded for Pineda
Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:30 pm by Christophersp10

You always trade a hitter for a pitcher. Especially when the hitter is a DH only.


Look at it like this. If you know Montero is the next Ortiz of DH's and Pineda is the next Pedro. Who would you rather have?


Pedro! Yankees will always be able to get a guy easily who can hit 30 HR's with 100 RBI's. Getting a guy who can win 20 games. Thats a different story
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Post#59 Re: Montero Traded for Pineda
Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:37 pm by Christophersp10

GnarlesOakley wrote:I like Montero but he is what he is. Not that good hitters grow on trees but unfortunately we are stuck with A-Rod who is going to have to be made a DH in a few years. As a catcher he would have struggled to be as good as even Posada defensively, and catching destroys ones shelf life.

Pineda isn't the finished product, but all signs are looking good. A potential ace is worth far more than a potential power hitter, the Yankees pitching pool is now so deep they can focus all their money on finding hitters. Does anyone not remember how much we struggled to bring in great pitchers in the past few years?



Good hitters do grow on trees. Look at all of the star hitters the Yankees signed or traded for the past 10 years. Sheffied finished 2nd in MVP voting his first year. Tex was a top candidate. Giambi hit 40 HR's with 100 RBI's numerous times. Berkman is still a star. Abreu, Damon, Matsui were all All Stars here. Same thing goes for David Justice.

Yankees passed on Beltran, Vlad, Pujols, Manny, Ortiz and Prince Fielder the last 10 years. If the Yankees are that desperate to get 30 HR's , 100 RBI's from the DH, they can easily go get one.


Hell, the Yankees can just get Carlos Pena to be the DH with Andruw Jones with stop gaps of Arod, Jeter and Tex in 2012 and be able to get 30 HR's, 100 RBI's from the DH.
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Post#60 Re: Montero Traded for Pineda
Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:38 pm by Christophersp10

GnarlesOakley wrote:I like Montero but he is what he is. Not that good hitters grow on trees but unfortunately we are stuck with A-Rod who is going to have to be made a DH in a few years. As a catcher he would have struggled to be as good as even Posada defensively, and catching destroys ones shelf life.

Pineda isn't the finished product, but all signs are looking good. A potential ace is worth far more than a potential power hitter, the Yankees pitching pool is now so deep they can focus all their money on finding hitters. Does anyone not remember how much we struggled to bring in great pitchers in the past few years?



Good hitters do grow on trees. Look at all of the star hitters the Yankees signed or traded for the past 10 years. Sheffied finished 2nd in MVP voting his first year. Tex was a top candidate. Giambi hit 40 HR's with 100 RBI's numerous times. Berkman is still a star. Abreu, Damon, Matsui were all All Stars here. Same thing goes for David Justice.

Yankees passed on Beltran, Vlad, Pujols, Manny, Ortiz and Prince Fielder the last 10 years. If the Yankees are that desperate to get 30 HR's , 100 RBI's from the DH, they can easily go get one.


Hell, the Yankees can just get Carlos Pena to be the DH with Andruw Jones with stop gaps of Arod, Jeter and Tex in 2012 and be able to get 30 HR's, 100 RBI's from the DH.
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