OFFICIAL - Amare Must Go Thread (all hate here) #TRADESTAT

[prophet_of_rage]

To have his old numbers he has to be first option in the offence. He isn't. Nor is the option in the paint. And his leadership has been taken away. He's being asked to be a stretch floor, floor spacer. He is doing that and as a result his points and field goal percentage have tumbled. asking him to get back to his numbers from last year means actively changing his role in the offence. That is something that the Knicks coaching staff hasn't done. They've asked him to be shawn Marion. Do you think he just decided to miss more jumpshots? No, he's been forced to take more and now as primarily a shooter he's shooting pretty well for now. Do you think that he wants to get blocked? That's a result of the spacing and the extra size he's carrying.

He won't be able to drop that til the off-season. For right now this is what he is and he won't cause a distraction to change that. That's how basketball works. The more talent you add and the more shots to be distributed player's touches go down. He's rebounding at a pretty steady rate. The team around him has changed completely, though. And he has had to sacrifice the most. His spot on the floor, the focus of the offence. It will take practice time to get that fixed. And we don't have practice time in this short season. Amar'e is a system player and the system isn't designed for him any more.

[Besart19]

Trade ID #6040084 http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6040084

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/219206/Source_Knicks_Have_Likely_Inquired_About_Howard

[mrspree15]

To have his old numbers he has to be first option in the offence. He isn't. Nor is the option in the paint. And his leadership has been taken away. He's being asked to be a stretch floor, floor spacer. He is doing that and as a result his points and field goal percentage have tumbled. asking him to get back to his numbers from last year means actively changing his role in the offence. That is something that the Knicks coaching staff hasn't done. They've asked him to be shawn Marion. Do you think he just decided to miss more jumpshots? No, he's been forced to take more and now as primarily a shooter he's shooting pretty well for now. Do you think that he wants to get blocked? That's a result of the spacing and the extra size he's carrying.

Agree that he's in a totally different role, but it's troubling that he's shooting so poorly from midrange. He's been a good midrange shooter for a long time now, and now he's not explosive and he can't shoot. His spot-up numbers have been worse with Lin as a starter, too (via here http://wp.me/p26GHB-35 ). Could easily be random, but he's shot poorly for a while now.

[albert]

I have no doubt in my mind that Amare can transition to a David West-type role. He's a good shooter, he knows how to move without the ball, and I don't worry about his numbers at all.

But look at the other end of the floor - he'll never be able to become a passable defensive player, let alone someone who can help the team on that end.

[knicks85]

Stat for bogut? Id do in a heartbeat...

[blumatic]

I remember couple years ago Bill Walker was asked to get to a certain weight. Less weight. During summer league in u saw the amount of weight he lost. Physically he looked good but he said it was very difficult for him to play at that weight. When he did a move it wasn't the same result he was expecting. Amar'e just needs to lose the 20 pounds. When he first came here I didn't realize how thin or really lean he was. But that made him mobile. I thought it wasn't smart for him to gain that weight. But hearing that he couldn't do much basketball activity I had to do something to keep the body fat low and stay in shape.

Defensively he just has to play smarter. I see his good intent past few weeks but he makes the wrong play. Like trying to trap the pick n roll but leaving his man wide open underneath for the fame winner.

[knicksosmoove]

if amar'e could play every night like he did against the Heat, I wouldn't be too mad at him. We'd still be overpaying for him, but at least he'd be bringing good things to the court.

it is imperative that he and Carmelo find their mid range jump shots over the next two months. it is also imperative that at least one of the guards gets solid pick and roll chemistry with amar'e.

and I think if we're going to ask amar'e to change his game--add a post game, become more of a stretch four--it's also fair to ask Tyson to work on a 10 foot jumper.

[knicksosmoove]

More of what I personally perceive as total BS and selfishness / ignorance to the truth from Stoudemire:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... For_Knicks

Amar’e Stoudemire is averaging 17.5 points per game this season, down from his 23.5 average during his first season with the Knicks.

“No worries,’’ said Stoudemire. “I’ve spent a year where I’ve pretty much had to sacrifice a lot of my game. Whatever it takes to win. That’s the ultimate goal. If it’s sacrificing the All-Star Game for the betterment of the team, it’s how it goes sometimes.’’

He is making a sacrifice. Last year it was more or less our goal to get Stoudemire going. Every possession started with a Felton/Stoudemire pick and roll. We ran curls for him a lot. We spaced the floor for his isolation game. I think in a way it marginalized guys like Danilo, but it was effective, and we won at a decent clip doing so.

We don't do that anymore. Now he is being asked to change his game to fit his new teammates. He's not doing a good job at it, but he is making a sacrifice. And admirably, he has not complained about it one bit, so I have to give him some kudos there. I think he more or less has the right attitude; he's accepting that it's not going to be about numbers with him, just about doing his job. He's not playing well because he's not shooting the ball as well as he could, but this is the attitude he needs to have.

He only put up 13/5 in that Heat game, but I was more pleased with him than I've been all season because he played pretty much how I envisioned he would play given his new role. He at least had energy on defense and with the boards and only took efficient looks which resulted in 13 points on 7 shots.

[SelbyCobra]

More of what I personally perceive as total BS and selfishness / ignorance to the truth from Stoudemire:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... For_Knicks

Amar’e Stoudemire is averaging 17.5 points per game this season, down from his 23.5 average during his first season with the Knicks.

“No worries,’’ said Stoudemire. “I’ve spent a year where I’ve pretty much had to sacrifice a lot of my game. Whatever it takes to win. That’s the ultimate goal. If it’s sacrificing the All-Star Game for the betterment of the team, it’s how it goes sometimes.’’

He is making a sacrifice. Last year it was more or less our goal to get Stoudemire going. Every possession started with a Felton/Stoudemire pick and roll. We ran curls for him a lot. We spaced the floor for his isolation game. I think in a way it marginalized guys like Danilo, but it was effective, and we won at a decent clip doing so.

We don't do that anymore. Now he is being asked to change his game to fit his new teammates. He's not doing a good job at it, but he is making a sacrifice. And admirably, he has not complained about it one bit, so I have to give him some kudos there. I think he more or less has the right attitude; he's accepting that it's not going to be about numbers with him, just about doing his job. He's not playing well because he's not shooting the ball as well as he could, but this is the attitude he needs to have.

He only put up 13/5 in that Heat game, but I was more pleased with him than I've been all season because he played pretty much how I envisioned he would play given his new role. He at least had energy on defense and with the boards and only took efficient looks which resulted in 13 points on 7 shots.

If he hit shots at the same frequency he did last year - or even close to it - he'd still be an All-Star this year.

He's not an All-Star this year because he's sucked, not because of the role he's played. He didn't sacrifice the All-Star game, he simply wasn't even close to good enough to belong there. That he is not even willing to understand that is annoying as hell to me as a fan. Zero accountability for playing terribly for the bulk of the season so far - instead, just blame it on everyone else: "I've been asked to play a different role for the good of the team."

Please.

[blumatic]

He knows he's having a bad year. After the Pistons game he thanked his fans for being patient with him. Dantoni and Grunwald in interviews acknowledged STAT struggles. So everyone knows. Alan Hahn asked Amar'e about his physical wellness. Amare quickly answered "Im fine".

But he knows and the world knows. You can tell even in his body language. His confidence is low. No swag that he had last year. And he knows why.

[knicksosmoove]

If he hit shots at the same frequency he did last year - or even close to it - he'd still be an All-Star this year.

He's not an All-Star this year because he's sucked, not because of the role he's played. He didn't sacrifice the All-Star game, he simply wasn't even close to good enough to belong there. That he is not even willing to understand that is annoying as hell to me as a fan. Zero accountability for playing terribly for the bulk of the season so far - instead, just blame it on everyone else: "I've been asked to play a different role for the good of the team."

Please.

he has sucked. I didn't say he hasn't. but he's being put in a new position. we ran our offense for amar'e last year. we don't do that anymore. now he has to fit his game around carmelo and the lin/chandler pick and roll. it's an adjustment he's going to have to make. he hasn't been doing a good job though . . . if he can get his jumper back up to snuff and maybe start backing his man down in the low block instead of trying to face-up there, he'll be alright . . . also it's hard for him to as efficient as he was in the past because he's not getting easy looks from the pick and roll nearly as much anymore. it's not just decreased volume, it's a different quality of shots.

amar'e has a big ego. he doesn't like to hold himself accountable. i don't like that about him, but I'm not too mad about his attitude. this is what the team needs out of him now. we're not going to run our offense for him anymore and he's not going to score 25ppg, and it seems like he's okay with that.

[knicks85]

We dont even need his old explosiveness all we need is his midrange j to drop....it was mney last yeaelr and now they all manage to rattpe out

[SelbyCobra]

If he hit shots at the same frequency he did last year - or even close to it - he'd still be an All-Star this year.

He's not an All-Star this year because he's sucked, not because of the role he's played. He didn't sacrifice the All-Star game, he simply wasn't even close to good enough to belong there. That he is not even willing to understand that is annoying as hell to me as a fan. Zero accountability for playing terribly for the bulk of the season so far - instead, just blame it on everyone else: "I've been asked to play a different role for the good of the team."

Please.

he has sucked. I didn't say he hasn't. but he's being put in a new position. we ran our offense for amar'e last year. we don't do that anymore. now he has to fit his game around carmelo and the lin/chandler pick and roll. it's an adjustment he's going to have to make. he hasn't been doing a good job though . . . if he can get his jumper back up to snuff and maybe start backing his man down in the low block instead of trying to face-up there, he'll be alright . . . also it's hard for him to as efficient as he was in the past because he's not getting easy looks from the pick and roll nearly as much anymore. it's not just decreased volume, it's a different quality of shots.

amar'e has a big ego. he doesn't like to hold himself accountable. i don't like that about him, but I'm not too mad about his attitude. this is what the team needs out of him now. we're not going to run our offense for him anymore and he's not going to score 25ppg, and it seems like he's okay with that.

I actually agree with everything you wrote, I just personally like more accountability from the stars/team leaders. I find it really of-putting when a player constantly refuses to legitimately accept responsibility, even in the face of having what is unquestionably a disasterous season by his well-established standards. I'd also agree with you that him saying he's accepting a reduced role is good, but I don't believe it's coming from an honest place, so I don't put much stock in it at this point.

To me, when a player can't be honest about his work, especially when it's as bold-faced as Amar'e's 2012 season so far, and he ends up citing external influences as the reason for him not performing ("I'm making sacrifices") it's a problem because that boils down to blaming his teammates and the coaching staff. That's a significant issue from my perspective, actually. That's where the murmurs between lesser teammates reading those quotes of "hey, how about you drain a 17 footer, Stat?" while laughing to each other start.

That's just me, though, and I understand everyone doesn't feel that way.

[rsavaj]

Here's a video breakdown of Amare's decline. He wasn't involved with the pick and roll much last year either, but he wasn't this bad.

http://somebasketballthings.wordpress.c ... toudemire/

Holy crap

Who the eff is that wearing Amare's uniform? Damn.

[Knicksfan20]

Kinda wish there was a way we could get Rudy Gay for Amare...He would be a perfect PF for this team. He plays defense too. WE may lose a little size and weight...but Amare plays like a munchkin anyways.