official Spring Training Thread

Christophersp10 · Post #41 » by **Christophersp10** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:21 pm

and if needed, he will be cut. It's not our money. Damon, Vlad and a couple of others are still on the market

Post #42 » by **moocow007** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:59 pm

Christophersp10 wrote:and if needed, he will be cut. It's not our money. Damon, Vlad and a couple of others are still on the market

Dump Ibanez already. I'm not sure what the fascination is. That he seems like a guy that won't make a fuss? A good potential teammate? A measly million dollars or two? Just offer Guerrero a one year incentive laden deal already and dump Ibanez.

Post #43 » by **moocow007** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:07 pm

But what about this Cesar Cabral guy aye?

6'3" 23 year old lefty that has struck out 12 batters in 9.1 innings to go with 1 walk and a 1.98 ERA so far in spring training. Considering the Yanks other lefty reliever is Boone Logan, he may make the team as a Rule 5 guy.

Pharmcat · Post #44 » by **Pharmcat** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:12 pm

pineada hitting 91

this guy is not what he was advertised

Pharmcat · Post #45 » by **Pharmcat** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:13 pm

moocow007 wrote:
Christophersp10 wrote:and if needed, he will be cut. It's not our money. Damon, Vlad and a couple of others are still on the market

Dump Ibanez already. I'm not sure what the fascination is. That he seems like a guy that won't make a fuss? A good potential teammate? A measly million dollars or two? Just offer Guerrero a one year incentive laden deal already and dump Ibanez.

he wont be cut you know cash, always stubborn in his ways

Christophersp10 · Post #46 » by **Christophersp10** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:05 pm

4 k's in 5 innings .

wwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaa

ooo and his velocity hit 94. Damn him for not pitching 98 mph during March.

Pharmcat · Post #47 » by **Pharmcat** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:46 pm

Christophersp10 wrote:4 k's in 5 innings .

wwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaa

ooo and his velocity hit 94. Damn him for not pitching 98 mph during March.

check the scouts note...he is throwing less velo than at this time last year

like I said, I have no problem with pineada if he was home grown, but to give up your best prospect in a decade for a overweight guy whose velo is down is risky and I disagree with it

Post #48 » by **moocow007** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:24 pm

Sounds really like a tired arm more so than anything else. As long as it's not an injury I'm fine with giving the guy more time.

Dr. Detfink · Post #49 » by **Dr. Detfink** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:49 am

Chrissie....listen up. Only going to say this once, so re-adjust your training bra.

NO ONE IS SAYING PINEDA IS A BUST because he came into camp overweight....but the # of young pitchers who sustain injuries after a long season with a heavy work load is one of the reasons why Cashman always limited his pitcher's innings.

Is it a HARD RULE? Absolutely NOT.

When you are the Mariners, a franchise that has very little to cheer about...you don't care. You're going to throw kids to the wolves and follow the Billy Beane strategy. What is Billy's strategy? Ask Hudson, Mulder, Zito how many arm surgeries they've had?

The Yanks have the luxury of competing WITHOUT throwing a talent like Pineda to the wolves.

Now for the $64,000 question...Chrissie if you got weight issues. THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM and Pineda's...not ours.

Pineda deserves the extra precautions. It's not punishment...cause if he's like Wells who had injuries and history of back problems or goes under the knife, giving up Montero was a waste.

It's not just about investing in youth but keeping the investments HEALTHY....to keep payroll down.

You don't waste and arm. RIGHT CASH? Looking at you, skinhead for making that deal with the Mets' Feliciano and not paying attn to the # of innings and doctor's report....

You ease the kid into it....

ccvle · Post #50 » by **ccvle** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:46 am

Dr. Detfink wrote:When you are the Mariners, a franchise that has very little to cheer about...you don't care. You're going to throw kids to the wolves and follow the Billy Beane strategy. What is Billy's strategy? Ask Hudson, Mulder, Zito how many arm surgeries they've had?

Hudson and Zito have had a relatively healthy career. especially zito, i don't think he ever had any arm related surgery. Hudson was hurt for like a stretch of 1 1/2 year, but other than that he's been healthy through out his career.

Pharmcat · Post #51 » by **Pharmcat** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:05 am

Dr. Detfink wrote:Chrissie....listen up. Only going to say this once, so re-adjust your training bra.

NO ONE IS SAYING PINEDA IS A BUST because he came into camp overweight....but the # of young pitchers who sustain injuries after a long season with a heavy work load is one of the reasons why Cashman always limited his pitcher's innings.

Is it a HARD RULE? Absolutely NOT.

When you are the Mariners, a franchise that has very little to cheer about...you don't care. You're going to throw kids to the wolves and follow the Billy Beane strategy. What is Billy's strategy? Ask Hudson, Mulder, Zito how many arm surgeries they've had?

The Yanks have the luxury of competing WITHOUT throwing a talent like Pineda to the wolves.

Now for the $64,000 question...Chrissie if you got weight issues. THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM and Pineda's...not ours.

Pineda deserves the extra precautions. It's not punishment...cause if he's like Wells who had injuries and history of back problems or goes under the knife, giving up Montero was a waste.

It's not just about investing in youth but keeping the investments HEALTHY....to keep payroll down.

You don't waste and arm. RIGHT CASH? Looking at you, skinhead for making that deal with the Mets' Feliciano and not paying attn to the # of innings and doctor's report....

You ease the kid into it....

id put pineada in the minors this year...let him :

1) learn and master the changeup
2) become more mature and understand coming to ST out of shape is unacceptable

Dr. Detfink · Post #52 » by **Dr. Detfink** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:16 am

ccvle wrote:
Dr. Detfink wrote:When you are the Mariners, a franchise that has very little to cheer about...you don't care. You're going to throw kids to the wolves and follow the Billy Beane strategy. What is Billy's strategy? Ask Hudson, Mulder, Zito how many arm surgeries they've had?

Hudson and Zito have had a relatively healthy career. especially zito, i don't think he ever had any arm related surgery. Hudson was hurt for like a stretch of 1 1/2 year, but other than that he's been healthy through out his career.

Hudson is just coming off his third surgery...Zito NEVER returned to form after he signed that atrocious contract with SF. BOTH were damaged goods AFTER leaving Oakland. This is why you ALWAYS pay attn to the # of innings on an arm before signing a guy to $$$$$ contract.

Which was Oakland's game plan. YES, this is the same Oakland that sold Giambi, Tejada and bunch of roid players without saying a word. Later got Brad Pitt to make Beane look like a patriarch.

In business, we call that being a LIAR....

END OF STORY.

Dr. Detfink · Post #53 » by **Dr. Detfink** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:23 am

Pharmcat wrote:id put pineada in the minors this year...let him :

1) learn and master the changeup
2) become more mature and understand coming to ST out of shape is unacceptable

I agree. Why is there this rush to put him in the rotation? Pineda was ATROCIOUS in the second half. I don't think it's his stuff persay. It's due to running him out there without any kind of support.

ccvle · Post #54 » by **ccvle** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:26 am

Dr. Detfink wrote:Hudson is just coming off his third surgery...Zito NEVER returned to form after he signed that atrocious contract with SF. BOTH were damaged goods AFTER leaving Oakland. This is why you ALWAYS pay attn to the # of innings on an arm before signing a guy to $$$$$ contract.

Hudson's latest surgery is on his back not his arm. His first elbow surgery came three years after he left oakland. He did have another shoulder surgery the next year, but over the last 7 years since he left Oakland he has averaged 28games per season.

I dont know if I would say the A's handled their pitchers any differently than any other teams. If you are good and healthy then you are going to get a lot of innings. Just like CC, Verlander, Holladay, Linecum,etc.

Dr. Detfink · Post #55 » by **Dr. Detfink** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:57 pm

Pitching doesn't have to be an arm...it can be your groin, legs...it's the most unnatural movement but the wear and tear on the body takes its toll as you get older.

NONE of Beane's guys lived up the billing they had in Oakland. Zito got a ring...and even then Zito was not a big part of the Giants WS run.

NOW....keep in mind, this is an addendum to my original post that is, when young pitchers get 100M from the Yanks, it is only fair and fiscally responsible that the Yanks are not so eager to throw them out there for 200+ innings. It's the BEST way to protect your investment before they demand 100M.

It's the difference between 3 yrs of dominance and 6 yrs....

ccvle · Post #56 » by **ccvle** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:55 pm

While i agree that the more innings you pitch the more wear and tear you will have, i disagree with the methods teams, particularly the yankees, use to limit their young pitcher innings. Look at hughes and chamberlain, i dont see any benefits in what the yankees did. I cant personally think of a pitcher that you can say that played a long and healthy career because he pitched limited innings when he was young.

Pharmcat · Post #57 » by **Pharmcat** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:45 am

pineada booed off the mound, what a awful performance

hes going to the minors

Pharmcat · Post #58 » by **Pharmcat** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:13 am

pineada complaining of a sore shoulder

this just gets worse

ccvle · Post #59 » by **ccvle** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:10 am

Lets be honest the trade was as much as about freeing up the DH spot for Arod, Jeter and Tex and saving money as about Pineda.

Pharmcat · Post #60 » by **Pharmcat** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:32 pm

ccvle wrote:Lets be honest the trade was as much as about freeing up the DH spot for Arod, Jeter and Tex and saving money as about Pineda.

how did they save money?