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Fields issue

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Post#121 Re: Fields issue
Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:04 pm by evevale

knicksosmoove wrote:mostly because his decision making is so good.

Fields has good decision making? Do you watch Knicks games?

The combination of Douglas, Baron, and Laundry make for some of the most boneheaded, frustrating turnovers I've seen all season. For someone who is rarely given the responsibility of handling the ball, Landry is godawful with his passing, dribbling and finishing in the lane.
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Post#122 Re: Fields issue
Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:05 pm by seren

evevale wrote:
knicksosmoove wrote:mostly because his decision making is so good.

Fields has good decision making? Do you watch Knicks games?

The combination of Douglas, Baron, and Laundry make for some of the most boneheaded, frustrating turnovers I've seen all season. For someone who is rarely given the responsibility of handling the ball, Landry is godawful with his passing, dribbling and finishing in the lane.


LOL. Especially the finishing in the lane made me want to laugh hard. Obviously, JR is a great finisher. When was the last time JR went to the lane? In 09/10 season?
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Post#123 Re: Fields issue
Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:19 pm by iHeartKNicks

seren wrote:Ball movement. Someone cutting to the basket. Off the ball movement. Important concepts. Think about it.


Im thinking JR is the better defender thats why he gets more pt. Shump & JR is our best defensive backcourt. Im also thinking JR can handle the ball on a team that has no point guard (as of right now) is part of the reason JR gets more minutes. Ball movement is important but I think play creators are much more of a need right now than facilitators. Im also thinking coach Woodson somewhat agrees with my logic seeing how over the last 4 games Fields played 106 minutes and JR has played 134 and receiving significant 4th quarter minutes.
Substitute Fields for Jr & the ball gets moved to who? Baron taking awkward fadeaways? Or does it mean Melo takes more shots? please enlighten me to your ball movement/ cut to the basket logic.
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Post#124 Re: Fields issue
Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:22 pm by Knickstape1214

seren wrote:
evevale wrote:
knicksosmoove wrote:mostly because his decision making is so good.

Fields has good decision making? Do you watch Knicks games?

The combination of Douglas, Baron, and Laundry make for some of the most boneheaded, frustrating turnovers I've seen all season. For someone who is rarely given the responsibility of handling the ball, Landry is godawful with his passing, dribbling and finishing in the lane.


LOL. Especially the finishing in the lane made me want to laugh hard. Obviously, JR is a great finisher. When was the last time JR went to the lane? In 09/10 season?


Yesterday. :D

@evevale -- Landry can pass (as long as it's not a lob) and can finish (when he's not taking those stupid fade away/running hooks).
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Post#125 Re: Fields issue
Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:35 pm by evevale

seren wrote:
evevale wrote:
knicksosmoove wrote:mostly because his decision making is so good.

Fields has good decision making? Do you watch Knicks games?

The combination of Douglas, Baron, and Laundry make for some of the most boneheaded, frustrating turnovers I've seen all season. For someone who is rarely given the responsibility of handling the ball, Landry is godawful with his passing, dribbling and finishing in the lane.


LOL. Especially the finishing in the lane made me want to laugh hard. Obviously, JR is a great finisher. When was the last time JR went to the lane? In 09/10 season?

I didn't say JR was good at finishing in the lane, he's second only to Toney Douglas when it comes to finishing layups. But that doesn't mean Landry is efficient by any stretch of the imagination when it comes to finishing layups and dunks.
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Post#126 Re: Fields issue
Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:35 pm by Knick Swisher

It's hilarious that people are lauding JR as a good defender while saying Fields sucks, when JR was the one who missed a couple backdoor cuts and was getting beat around screens by Korver, while Fields played solid defense, and has for a while now
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Post#127 Re: Fields issue
Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:48 pm by Sark

Knick Swisher wrote:It's hilarious that people are lauding JR as a good defender while saying Fields sucks, when JR was the one who missed a couple backdoor cuts and was getting beat around screens by Korver, while Fields played solid defense, and has for a while now



http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks ... -to-fields

Below is a breakdown of Fields' defensive numbers, as provided by ESPN Stats & Info. Keep in mind they are all outcome-based, meaning if the player the defender is guarding shoots, gets fouled, or turns it over, the following stats take that into account. But if the player gets the ball and eventually passes off, that’s not factored in (it’s an inexact science).

As a primary on-the-ball defender this season, Fields is allowing 0.915 points per play. Among NBA players with at least 200 defensive plays, that ranks tied for 229th out of 273 players.

The player Fields is guarding scores on 42.1 percent of the plays in which a field goal occurs, a shooting foul is drawn or a turnover occurs. His 42.1 percentage ranks tied for 228th out of the 273 players who have at least 200 defensive plays. (Score percentage is the percentage of plays in which at least one point is scored.)

Among the 14 Knicks players with a minimum of 50 plays as an on-the-ball defender, Fields ranks dead last in allowing points per play (0.915) and score percentage (42.1).
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Post#128 Re: Fields issue
Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:54 pm by 21shumpst

Sark wrote:
Knick Swisher wrote:It's hilarious that people are lauding JR as a good defender while saying Fields sucks, when JR was the one who missed a couple backdoor cuts and was getting beat around screens by Korver, while Fields played solid defense, and has for a while now



http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks ... -to-fields

Below is a breakdown of Fields' defensive numbers, as provided by ESPN Stats & Info. Keep in mind they are all outcome-based, meaning if the player the defender is guarding shoots, gets fouled, or turns it over, the following stats take that into account. But if the player gets the ball and eventually passes off, that’s not factored in (it’s an inexact science).

As a primary on-the-ball defender this season, Fields is allowing 0.915 points per play. Among NBA players with at least 200 defensive plays, that ranks tied for 229th out of 273 players.


The player Fields is guarding scores on 42.1 percent of the plays in which a field goal occurs, a shooting foul is drawn or a turnover occurs. His 42.1 percentage ranks tied for 228th out of the 273 players who have at least 200 defensive plays. (Score percentage is the percentage of plays in which at least one point is scored.)

Among the 14 Knicks players with a minimum of 50 plays as an on-the-ball defender, Fields ranks dead last in allowing points per play (0.915) and score percentage (42.1).


So my eyes do not deceive me. He is just not a very good defensive player.
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Post#129 Re: Fields issue
Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:11 pm by Fat Kat

Sark wrote:
Knick Swisher wrote:It's hilarious that people are lauding JR as a good defender while saying Fields sucks, when JR was the one who missed a couple backdoor cuts and was getting beat around screens by Korver, while Fields played solid defense, and has for a while now



http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks ... -to-fields

Below is a breakdown of Fields' defensive numbers, as provided by ESPN Stats & Info. Keep in mind they are all outcome-based, meaning if the player the defender is guarding shoots, gets fouled, or turns it over, the following stats take that into account. But if the player gets the ball and eventually passes off, that’s not factored in (it’s an inexact science).

As a primary on-the-ball defender this season, Fields is allowing 0.915 points per play. Among NBA players with at least 200 defensive plays, that ranks tied for 229th out of 273 players.

The player Fields is guarding scores on 42.1 percent of the plays in which a field goal occurs, a shooting foul is drawn or a turnover occurs. His 42.1 percentage ranks tied for 228th out of the 273 players who have at least 200 defensive plays. (Score percentage is the percentage of plays in which at least one point is scored.)

Among the 14 Knicks players with a minimum of 50 plays as an on-the-ball defender, Fields ranks dead last in allowing points per play (0.915) and score percentage (42.1).


:lol: Well that's that.
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Post#130 Re: Fields issue
Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:22 pm by seren

Sark wrote:
Knick Swisher wrote:It's hilarious that people are lauding JR as a good defender while saying Fields sucks, when JR was the one who missed a couple backdoor cuts and was getting beat around screens by Korver, while Fields played solid defense, and has for a while now



http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks ... -to-fields

Below is a breakdown of Fields' defensive numbers, as provided by ESPN Stats & Info. Keep in mind they are all outcome-based, meaning if the player the defender is guarding shoots, gets fouled, or turns it over, the following stats take that into account. But if the player gets the ball and eventually passes off, that’s not factored in (it’s an inexact science).

As a primary on-the-ball defender this season, Fields is allowing 0.915 points per play. Among NBA players with at least 200 defensive plays, that ranks tied for 229th out of 273 players.

The player Fields is guarding scores on 42.1 percent of the plays in which a field goal occurs, a shooting foul is drawn or a turnover occurs. His 42.1 percentage ranks tied for 228th out of the 273 players who have at least 200 defensive plays. (Score percentage is the percentage of plays in which at least one point is scored.)

Among the 14 Knicks players with a minimum of 50 plays as an on-the-ball defender, Fields ranks dead last in allowing points per play (0.915) and score percentage (42.1).


It sounds like Fields is not an good on the ball defender. It says nothing about the fact that JR sucks on both ends of the floor.
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Post#131 Re: Fields issue
Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:58 pm by iHeartKNicks

Thats hate. JR plays good defense thats how he stays on the floor.
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Post#132 Re: Fields issue
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:03 pm by NowWHYcee7

seren wrote:
It sounds like Fields is not an good on the ball defender. It says nothing about the fact that JR sucks on both ends of the floor.


:lol: just stop
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Post#133 Re: Fields issue
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:04 pm by seren

iHeartKNicks wrote:Thats hate. JR plays good defense thats how he stays on the floor.


On a given night, teams outscore us substantially when JR is on the floor. Last night, he failed to fight through the screens. Previous Chicago game, he totally messed up.

This is besides the fact that his long threes usually end up being fast breaks for opponents. Overall, he did more damage than good. He was responsible for Indiana loss as well.
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Post#134 Re: Fields issue
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:06 pm by seren

NowWHYcee7 wrote:
seren wrote:
It sounds like Fields is not an good on the ball defender. It says nothing about the fact that JR sucks on both ends of the floor.


:lol: just stop


Stop what? JR caused a 20 point turnaround last night. We were outscored by 20 points when JR was on the floor. Compare that to Fields. We outscored the Bulls last night when Fields was on the floor.

It happens one night, it is a coincidence. It happens every frigging night and you are telling me to stop?
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Post#135 Re: Fields issue
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:17 pm by Sark

seren wrote:
Stop what? JR caused a 20 point turnaround last night. We were outscored by 20 points when JR was on the floor. Compare that to Fields. We outscored the Bulls last night when Fields was on the floor.

It happens one night, it is a coincidence. It happens every frigging night and you are telling me to stop?



Correlation does not equal causation. This is a team game. You can't say that one player caused a team to go up, and one player caused the lead to turn into a deficit.

It seems like you are trying to use +/- as a way to justify who should be playing. +/- is probably the worst stat you can use to make an estimation of who is doing what on the floor.
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Post#136 Re: Fields issue
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:19 pm by seren

Sark wrote:
seren wrote:
Stop what? JR caused a 20 point turnaround last night. We were outscored by 20 points when JR was on the floor. Compare that to Fields. We outscored the Bulls last night when Fields was on the floor.

It happens one night, it is a coincidence. It happens every frigging night and you are telling me to stop?



Correlation does not equal causation. This is a team game. You can't say that one player caused a team to go up, and one player caused the lead to turn into a deficit.

It seems like you are trying to use +/- as a way to justify who should be playing. +/- is probably the worst stat you can use to make an estimation of who is doing what on the floor.


Any actual evidence to support your argument?
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Post#137 Re: Fields issue
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:19 pm by Knickstape1214

That +/- is useless?
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Post#138 Re: Fields issue
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:21 pm by seren

Paco wrote:That +/- is useless?

yep.
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Post#139 Re: Fields issue
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:26 pm by Knickstape1214

seren wrote:
Paco wrote:That +/- is useless?

yep.

Matt Bonner has the best +/- on the Spurs (and 9th highest in the NBA).
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Post#140 Re: Fields issue
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:28 pm by seren

Paco wrote:
seren wrote:
Paco wrote:That +/- is useless?

yep.

Matt Bonner has the best +/- on the Spurs (and 9th highest in the NBA).


And you believe Matt Bonner should get less minutes and someone else gets more minutes?

What you need is an example where a player is on the minus side for a winning team that the team prefers the particular player over another one who is clearly on the positive side.
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