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2012 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread

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Re: 2012 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread 

Post#181 » by -MetA4- » Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:23 am

flatjacket1 wrote:I would argue that is because the draft is a crapshoot. Cole would have still developed better in a minor league system.


Sure; but the fact is that teams look at ability, age, and development and then make their choices based off of that. If teams went into the draft the way you described then no one would ever draft a college player. They draft college players because there are kids in college that are really, really good...regardless of the fact that they maybe could have been developed better in the pro leagues.

College players are near the end of their development and HS players are near the beginning.


If the college kid is throwing 98mph with 3 plus secondary pitches and perfect mechanics then who cares? Seriously? What are you trying to say, that if Beede is throwing 95+ mph with 2 plus off-speed pitches and throwing 1 ERA ball that teams are going to say "nope; he went to college, therefore his ceiling is now lower"? I'm legitimately scratching my head.
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Re: 2012 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread 

Post#182 » by flatjacket1 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:54 am

You are actually right. If I wanted to become a better baseball player I'd go the college route.
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Re: 2012 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread 

Post#183 » by -MetA4- » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:18 am

flatjacket1 wrote:You are actually right. If I wanted to become a better baseball player I'd go the college route.


I'm assuming that this is supposed to be a tongue-in-cheek comment. The fact is that despite superior coaching, there are dozens of players every year who would develop better by going to college for the sheer fact that they aren't ready to get thrown into the minor-league wood burner. A college program can give each individual player more attention and it is a much more relaxed environment which is exactly what a lot of high school kids need.

Stephen Strasburg is the absolute perfect example of this. He was a horribly conditioned 250 pounds out of HS, completely out of shape and not even remotely ready for pro ball. He was hardly a draft prospect out of HS and no team would have dedicated the time needed to let him blossom the way San Diego State did. Claiming that every player would benefit more from being thrown directly into the minor leagues is ridiculously ignorant. No different than HS players and the NBA; and why they are now restricted from going straight from HS to the NBA. Surely an NBA team has better coaching than a college program....but there are a lot more factors that go into success than that.
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Re: 2012 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread 

Post#184 » by PimpHandStrong » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:10 am

-MetA4- wrote:Surely an NBA team has better coaching than a college program...
eh?
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Re: 2012 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread 

Post#185 » by Graham's Cracker » Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:02 pm

Good night for the LV bats last night:

Hech 3-5
Snider 3-4 BB 2B
D'arnaud 1-5
Cooper 4-5 a home run shy of the cycle
Sierra 1-4
Gomes 2-4
Gose 0-3 but had 2 BB's

Attendance was just 1600 in Vegas
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Re: 2012 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread 

Post#186 » by WpgPage » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:30 pm

We signed Stilson? Geez missed that one.

At least Snider is putting pressure on Thames I don't know if I'm going to be able to stand him failing around in LF for 162 games...
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Re: 2012 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread 

Post#187 » by Kaizen » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:23 pm

WpgPage wrote:We signed Stilson? Geez missed that one.

At least Snider is putting pressure on Thames I don't know if I'm going to be able to stand him failing around in LF for 162 games...


viewtopic.php?f=123&t=1118259
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Re: 2012 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread 

Post#188 » by flatjacket1 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:52 pm

WpgPage wrote:At least Snider is putting pressure on Thames I don't know if I'm going to be able to stand him failing around in LF for 162 games...


Snider is still doing his famous 1 handed swing in Vegas, I want to see his mechanics down pat before we see him in the show. Thames though, I agree, is a placeholder for Snider. I still think defensively alone, Snider will be dominant enough that his bat can be worse.

Another problem with Snider is he is hitting a lot of ground balls in Vegas which fall through for hits.

I think he needs at least a couple months before he should get considered to use his LAST option, but I agree that the move needs to happen sooner or later.
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Re: 2012 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread 

Post#189 » by Lateral Quicks » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:52 pm

I wonder if Snider's troubles are due, at least in part, to a lack of flexibility. He has so much muscle that he may not have the range of motion he needs. The one-handed swing could be a symptom of that. Just a thought.
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Re: 2012 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread 

Post#190 » by Kaizen » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:05 pm

Law posted a list of his top 50 draft prospects.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/ ... -prospects

I quoted some players that will be in our range.

15 Zach Eflin RHP 6-5 200

Analysis: I saw him on one of his best nights of the year, but even at 90 percent of that he's a clear first-rounder and has the size, delivery and demeanor of a big leaguer to go with the above-average fastball and changeup. Scrap the knuckle-curve in favor of a traditional curve or slider, and you have a potential No. 2 starter or more.

16 Michael Wacha RHP 6-6 200 Farragut H.S.

Analysis: A very safe pick, just without the upside of the arms ahead of him. He will likely pitch in pro ball with a grade 50-55 fastball and a plus changeup, but the lack of an average breaking ball holds him back.

17 Hunter Virant LHP 6-3 172

Analysis: Probably doesn't go quite this high, but I think he could be the next Tyler Skaggs, another projection lefty who didn't throw that hard in high school but gained velocity rapidly as his body matured.

18 Courtney Hawkins OF 6-3 210

Analysis: He makes the hardest contact of anyone in this draft with above-average present power, but off-speed stuff gives him trouble, and he'll play right field in pro ball rather than center.

19 Andrew Heaney LHP 6-2 174 Science Hill H.S.

Analysis: Heaney has emerged as the top college lefty in the draft, featuring a three-pitch mix with an above-average changeup and some funk in his delivery that adds to his deception.

20 Addison Russell SS 6-1 210

Analysis: The Pace HS star has dropped about 20 pounds and improved his conditioning to the point he now "looks like a shortstop." He may not stay there long term, but would be a plus defender at third (if not better), and his bat would profile there as well.

21 Stryker Trahan C 6-1 215

Analysis: His defense hasn't been as good this year as it was in the past, and he's struggled some at the plate. I think the defense can be fixed with better instruction, and there are some possible reasons behind his offensive slump, but he's not the slam dunk he appeared to be last summer and fall.

22 Joey Gallo 3B 6-5 220 Florida

Analysis: Scuffled badly at the USA Baseball tournament in Cary, N.C., two weeks ago, but this is the best raw power in the draft, and there's always the option of putting him on the mound, where he rivals Giolito for arm strength.

23 Marcus Stroman RHP 5-8 185

Analysis: If he were 6-foot-1, he'd be a top-10 pick. That lack of fastball plane has a lot of scouts putting the 5-8 Stroman in the bullpen. I think he's a lot like Sonny Gray, who also could end up in the 'pen but has the weapons to start and should get the opportunity to do so.

24 Brian Johnson LHP 6-3 235 Edison H.S.

Analysis: Another very safe college arm, perhaps this year's Mike Minor, as a guy who could reach the majors quickly because of the quality of his off-speed stuff.

25 Chris Stratton RHP 6-3 198

Analysis: There's some skepticism around a guy who posted nearly identically poor stat lines for two years, but Stratton is missing a ton of bats with an above-average slider and three other pitches to make him appealing as a potential starter.
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Re: 2012 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread 

Post#191 » by Al_Oliver » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:18 pm

flatjacket1 wrote:
WpgPage wrote:At least Snider is putting pressure on Thames I don't know if I'm going to be able to stand him failing around in LF for 162 games...


Snider is still doing his famous 1 handed swing in Vegas, I want to see his mechanics down pat before we see him in the show. Thames though, I agree, is a placeholder for Snider. I still think defensively alone, Snider will be dominant enough that his bat can be worse.

Another problem with Snider is he is hitting a lot of ground balls in Vegas which fall through for hits.

I think he needs at least a couple months before he should get considered to use his LAST option, but I agree that the move needs to happen sooner or later.


Option is for the whole year is it not (i.e they can send him up and down all year)?
Even if that isn't the case, i don't see any reason for Snider not to be playing and Thames working on his fielding everyday in the minors...
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Re: 2012 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread 

Post#192 » by Mr. Natural » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:51 pm

-MetA4- wrote:If the college kid is throwing 98mph with 3 plus secondary pitches and perfect mechanics then who cares? Seriously? What are you trying to say, that if Beede is throwing 95+ mph with 2 plus off-speed pitches and throwing 1 ERA ball that teams are going to say "nope; he went to college, therefore his ceiling is now lower"? I'm legitimately scratching my head.


I think baseball players that went to college should have their draft stock and ceilings lowered. If that same player who went to college went straight into pro ball he would 1.) have much more experience since they play more games 2.) be in much better shape as their whole lives revolve around baseball instead of schoolwork.

That player that went to college has diminished their potential because they don't have near as beneficial of a development curve as a highschool kid who went straight to pro ball.
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Re: 2012 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread 

Post#193 » by flatjacket1 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:22 pm

Al_Oliver wrote:Option is for the whole year is it not (i.e they can send him up and down all year)?
Even if that isn't the case, i don't see any reason for Snider not to be playing and Thames working on his fielding everyday in the minors...


You are entirely right, but there is a fair chance that if we call him up, he will be forced back down. This "yo-yo" effect is what plagued him in the first place. If we wait until next season (when Bautista might even move to 1B and Snider takes RF. PS don't start a debate in this thread, there is a dedicated one that I recently bumped. I'm just referencing it) then we have a full season of Snider with the ability to option him.

I think it makes more sense to Thames to work on his fielding on the same surface he would have to play on if it improved. Thames is significantly worse defensively, no arguing that, but I'd say it's better to train offense in AAA and defense in the Majors as long as you don't take a major hit from the other side of the players game. This is all opinion mind you.

I think at the current moment Snider would not be able to handle MLB pitching. That is also just opinion but even the announcers are getting sick of his 1 handed rips at breaking balls in the dirt in AAA. Sure his numbers look pretty but I'm sure half the posters in this board can hit well in Vegas.
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Re: 2012 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread 

Post#194 » by There There » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:10 pm

flatjacket1 wrote:I think he needs at least a couple months before he should get considered to use his LAST option, but I agree that the move needs to happen sooner or later.


His last option has been used.

He will be out of options next year, regardless if we recall him this year or not (assuming it is not within the next two weeks)
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Re: 2012 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread 

Post#195 » by flatjacket1 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:20 pm

There There wrote:
flatjacket1 wrote:I think he needs at least a couple months before he should get considered to use his LAST option, but I agree that the move needs to happen sooner or later.


His last option has been used.

He will be out of options next year, regardless if we recall him this year or not (assuming it is not within the next two weeks)


If that is the case then I say we call him up when hes ready (which will likely be a month or two)
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Re: 2012 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread 

Post#196 » by baulderdash77 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:25 pm

It's quite possible that Thames is just a placeholder for Rasmus with Gose coming up too or Marisnick right behind him. The fact is that there's not going to be enough spots for everyone. I think Snider is a casualty to the organizational pressure to improve.
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Re: 2012 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread 

Post#197 » by There There » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:05 am

Sean Nolin had a ridiculous line for Dunedin tonight... 5.2IP, 3H, 0BB, 11K (10 were swing and miss), 6:1 GO/FO... All three hits were singles and only two left the infield.

Jed Bradley was perfect through five in the same game but Dunedin finally broke through for a couple of hits in the sixth, including a triple by Marisnick.
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Re: 2012 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread 

Post#198 » by WpgPage » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:03 am

Jenkins not helping his reputation of having a straight fastball 3 HR tonight all on FBs.
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Re: 2012 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread 

Post#199 » by LittleOzzy » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:42 pm

Hechavarria a hit with 51s

Two years after signing with the Toronto Blue Jays following his daring defection from Cuba, 51s shortstop Adeiny Hechavarria appears ready to play in the big leagues.

Known for his outstanding defense, Hechavarria has been a hitting machine since joining Las Vegas, batting .389 in 25 games late last year and a team-leading .406 (13-for-32) through seven games this season.

"He's showing he can do some things maybe people didn't really expect him to do, especially on the offensive side," 51s manager Marty Brown said. "He's showing he's not intimidated by anybody that lets go of the ball."

But whenever Hechavarria gets the coveted call from the Blue Jays, it's likely a couple of his key family members won't be able to share in the joy of his big league debut.

Hechavarria's mother, Mirta, and older brother, Alien, still live in communist Cuba -- which probably is the reason he politely declined to discuss Thursday the controversial comments Miami Marlins manager Ozzie Guillen made about retired Cuban dictator Fidel Castro.

Guillen, who played for Las Vegas in 1984, expressed admiration for Castro in a recent interview with Time magazine. He later apologized for his comments, which led to a five-game suspension from Major League Baseball.

"He doesn't want to say anything about that," said 51s coach Danny Solano, who acted as Hechavarria's translator. "He's sorry."

According to Hechavarria, who turns 23 on Sunday, he fled Cuba in July 2009 on a small boat bound for Mexico, where he defected.

"People sometimes don't realize how tough it is," said Solano, a native of the Dominican Republic who played 12 seasons in the minors. "For players from the Dominican and Puerto Rico, everything is kind of easier because we've got the opportunity to come to the (United) States.


http://www.lvrj.com/sports/hechavarria- ... ml?ref=675
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Re: 2012 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread 

Post#200 » by Hamyltowne » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:04 pm

I wonder if I can copy and paste the above post into the Ozzie Guillen Suspension thread.

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