Carlos Boozer

[Red Larrivee]

If the question is, why would we pay this amount of money to a player who plays in essence 30 mpg I believe that is a fair question. Boozer's signing certainly allowed the Bulls to take a measurable move in the standings. But they ideally would want about 6-8 Minutes more from that salary. Lebron and Pat Riley really screwed the Bulls plans.

Hell, not even that...play him 4 more minutes. I'm just not buying that the Bulls are going to transform into this awful team with Boozer playing 34mpg and getting the shots he needs to average 19/10 and be effective. This team is not going to be worse because of him doing that.

The Bulls are 16-2 when Boozer takes 15 shots or more. He's averaging all-star numbers during that sample.

[ManualRam]

well sloan was an overrated defensive coach.
when implementing tactics, it is wise to play the percentages. requiring a player, who sucks at moving his feet and is slow to recover, trap and cover more ground defensively is BAD strategy.

Hey ManRam,Mathis is off topic for this thread, but what's your opinion of John Shurna? Went to high school with him and played ball with him since I was a youngin.

Personally I think he's a little too slow and weak to make the league, but I'd love to hear your opinion. Maybe he could be a Mike Dunleavy.

he might make it as a steve novak type of shooter. he's that good of a shooter from static positions, but i do have concerns about his shot release. its quick, but NBA shot contests are different from college shot contests. plus, he'll be defended by NBA caliber SFs as opposed to big 10 4's. also, because of his lack of foot speed, he could be limited to only taking wide open spot up shots and not being an option off of screens. luckily he has a better ability to put the ball on the deck compared to novak and he's pretty creative getting shots off after he does so. because of the system he played in, he's well versed in moving without the ball, positioning himself in holes in the defense to get off quick releases. he's relatively slow, but he moves with intelligence and purpose, so maybe he can do some things other than sitting in the corner and stretching the D.
i dont have him in my mock, but i can see him being picked up in training camp because he's an extraordinary shooter with a smart floor game. i think it's more likely he becomes a very good player overseas though.

[ManualRam]

09-10 utah jazz had 5.3 pt differential.

11-12 bulls has 7.9 pt differential.

boozer played 34 minutes that year shooting 56% from the field, 21 PER, and TS% of 60!

also remember that utah jazz defense was mediocre. they were able to turn their amazingly efficient offense into a good defense (defensive rating 10th in the league that year)

their has to be a balance in this bulls lineup. you cant go all defense and expect to win playoff games, period. it just dont work like that.

i can play that game too.

bulls with boozer on the floor: 5.7 net rating
bulls with taj on the floor: 14.4 net rating

boozer is far from indispensable. the bulls dont NEED to get him extra shots and touches. they dont need to see an uptick in his production to justify his contract. if the action and how he's played defensively results in him getting more touches and he produces more, then thats great, but i dont think the bulls need to make a more concerted effort to get him the ball. he's not that type of offensive player. it's not like defending him requires additional effort from the opposition. he doesnt even draw extra attention from the defense. if his jump shot isnt falling, he doesnt NEED to be in there as an offensive threat since the bulls can be just as good or even better with him out.

ideally, boozer would be a constant threat on offense when he's on the floor, but because of his lack of talent, his dependence on others creating opportunities for him and his overall scoring versatility, he is not. boozer is not a difficult guard. he can be bothered by athleticism, can be bothered by length, can be played off of and recovered on (which is exactly what we saw in the playoffs last yr). he cant just impose himself on the defense so he has to take what the game action dictates. i'd compare him to a big man version of a spot up shooter. you dont look to get a spot up shooter more shots. the spot up shooter gets more shots because that is what the action dictated.

[Rerisen]

The people who are asking for Boozer to get more touches and shots are basically saying run more offense where he'll get points within the flow. Nobody's saying run high post ISO or let him hold on to the ball for 15 seconds. There's plenty of plays in the offense that get Boozer open quickly. Run them and run them more. If we're going to play him 30mpg then at least get more shots and touches for him within that time.

His volume is down because his minutes are down, and his efficiency is down because he rarely gets fouled anymore. The numbers have been shown, he's only taking about 1 less shot per 36 minutes than he was in Utah in his best seasons. He's actually beating some Utah seasons in rate of shots, but he's producing less points on those shots/possessions.

Just because Thibs chooses to play Carlos less than he was played in Utah, it doesn't mean the whole offense has to be designed around Carlos Boozer (instead of Derrick Rose) just so that Carlos can match past volume numbers.

As I've talked about other players in the past, volume scoring doesn't impress me. I'd rather have Boozer take another shot *less* if it meant he was scoring at .580-.590 TS% like he was in Utah. This is the true measure of elite and effective scoring, not his volume and not his FG% either that gets quoted endlessly, though it may help establish a high basement for him.

[Red Larrivee]

Just because Thibs chooses to play Carlos less than he was played in Utah, it doesn't mean the whole offense has to be designed around Carlos Boozer (instead of Derrick Rose) just so that Carlos can match past volume numbers.

And that's when you start saying things that NOBODY in this thread has said. I'm not saying we should build the offense around Carlos. I'm saying that within the flow of our offense we should look to get Carlos more shots. Not more than Derrick, but more than what Boozer's getting right now. That's not absurd and I don't see how the Bulls get worse by doing that. Compared to the other offensive players on the team, why wouldn't you want to do that?

As I've talked about other players in the past, volume scoring doesn't impress me. I'd rather have Boozer take another shot *less* if it meant he was scoring at .580-.590 TS% like he was in Utah. This is the true measure of elite and effective scoring, not his volume and not his FG% either that gets quoted endlessly, though it may help establish a high basement for him.

I'd rather have the Boozer who was averaging 18ppg on high scoring efficiency. Right now we have a Boozer averaging 15 a game on acceptable (55.5%TS) efficiency). The former isn't difficult to achieve. I'm not even going to ask for Boozer to average 20ppg because I realize there has to be some offensive sacrifice because of this new system. But the one he's made is way too steep and not something that can be depended on in the postseason.

[Jimako10]

09-10 utah jazz had 5.3 pt differential.

11-12 bulls has 7.9 pt differential.

boozer played 34 minutes that year shooting 56% from the field, 21 PER, and TS% of 60!

also remember that utah jazz defense was mediocre. they were able to turn their amazingly efficient offense into a good defense (defensive rating 10th in the league that year)

their has to be a balance in this bulls lineup. you cant go all defense and expect to win playoff games, period. it just dont work like that.

Yes cause it worked so well for the Jazz all those years, i forget, how many rings did they win? If anything, the bulls last year proved you could go all defense and win playoff games.

[Red Larrivee]

[
Yes cause it worked so well for the Jazz all those years, i forget, how many rings did they win?

How many rings have the Bulls won with this squad? The Jazz got to the Conference Finals too in Utah and Boozer averaged 24ppg/12reb/3ast/53%field goal during that postseason.

If anything, the bulls last year proved you could go all defense and win playoff games.

And then they proved that you can't go all defense and expect to make it to the Finals.

[Rerisen]

The former isn't difficult to achieve.

I don't see how you come to that conclusion. Boozer gets his shots, could he get a few more, eh sure, but I don't think its that easy to dictate happening. Too reliant on what the D is doing. Nor does it makes us necessarily better. We also have to keep Deng and Rip engaged now. If you don't go to Deng ever in the first few quarters, good chance he'll be a no show late too.

[Rerisen]

I don't get the debate over Boozer offensively at all. Where he is at right now is loads better than what he did in the playoffs last year, even if short of an ideal we might dream of. So if we just get this Boozer, and Rip contributing, we have a great shot of reaching the Finals, as long as Derrick is in tune.

The main thing Boozer has to guard against is being totally shut out of the offense by Miami, and not making too many mistakes on defense.

When he gets switched on Bosh, he has to not get destroyed too.

But other than that, I don't see the difference of our title hopes depending on 18 point Boozer vs 16 point Boozer. That seems more like fluff aimed at altering fan perceptions of his value vs contract, or vs the player he used to be.

[jl342323]

to be honest, joakim noah should be playing tyson chandler role on this team. 7.6 FGAs are too high of a number for a center who is shooting 50% from the field. he often looks clueless when he gets the ball on the perimeter.

tyson is only getting 5.7 shots per game and is averaging 1.3 pts more than noah.

noah is a good passer, but he developed his passing b/c hes an awful offensive player. on the other hand, boozer is an offensive player who also knows how to pass the rock to an open teammate. thats the difference in their passing game. boozer can look for his own shot and he can also dish it out to a teammate.

noah is less of a threat offensively than tyson, but he often tries to do too much.

if you have noah shoot 5 fgas per game then those two shots could go to boozer. deng's shot should also decrease and rip's FGAs needs to increase along with boozer.

[Rerisen]

if you have noah shoot 5 fgas per game then those two shots could go to boozer..

It's not that easy. Noah must keep the defense honest at times or it will hurt everyone else, including Boozer, as his man won't guard him.

When Jo has the ball in tornado range, and is being left open, he can't just make the ball appear in Boozer's hands so that Carlos can shoot instead. He must some of those times either take the shot or drive at the basket, and this is where many of his attempts are created. The rest are putbacks.

Not like we are choosing to have Noah take 7 shots, he is the guy the defense doesn't respect. We have to force them to at least a little bit.

[jl342323]

he shouldnt even be in that situation. his shot aint gonna work with any kind of pressure on him. thats the system's flaw.

this just shows you thibs doesnt work on his offensive game. he just runs semi complex plays out there and hope his defense can out work their opposition.

tyson's game is what noah should emulate. he doesnt overthink ever on the offensive end. when tyson gets the ball, he immediately passes it back to the guard to set up a new play.

[Red Larrivee]

I don't see how you come to that conclusion. Boozer gets his shots, could he get a few more, eh sure, but I don't think its that easy to dictate happening. Too reliant on what the D is doing. Nor does it makes us necessarily better. We also have to keep Deng and Rip engaged now. If you don't go to Deng ever in the first few quarters, good chance he'll be a no show late too.

Alright, so if Boozer taking more shots "doesn't make us better" when why is the first scapegoat offensively when we lose? Why are there "Boozer should've scored more" cries raining down from the board?

What you're saying isn't flowing. Boozer being a better and more reliable offensive threat does make us better.

[Rerisen]

Alright, so if Boozer taking more shots "doesn't make us better" when why is the first scapegoat offensively when we lose? Why are there "Boozer should've scored more" cries raining down from the board?

What you're saying isn't flowing. Boozer being a better and more reliable offensive threat does make us better.

He's only ripped on offense if he is missing his jumpers, or taking bad fadeaways, because that's the majority of his offense.

But because his offense is based on such a streaky thing, he's prone to some very bad or ineffective nights. Just running a couple more plays a night where he is involved in them, instead of say Korver or Rip, is not going to change that.

Just saying Boozer could be a more reliable offensive force doesn't make it so. Might as well say, why doesn't DRose score 25 PPG a game for us and give him more iso's since he's the 2nd most efficient volume scorer on the team, but actually the only one that can actually increase his attempts easily just by wanting to. Just doesn't work like that, even for Derrick.

[Jimako10]

[
Yes cause it worked so well for the Jazz all those years, i forget, how many rings did they win?

How many rings have the Bulls won with this squad? The Jazz got to the Conference Finals too in Utah and Boozer averaged 24ppg/12reb/3ast/53%field goal during that postseason.

If anything, the bulls last year proved you could go all defense and win playoff games.

And then they proved that you can't go all defense and expect to make it to the Finals.

Out of the 6 years that Boozer was in Utah, they got to the conference finals one time, the year when they beat the #8 Warriors to get there. In the ONE year with the newly constructed bulls of last year, where defense was prioritized over everything, and Boozer (according to all those who defend him) had injury problems (the main excuse for his ineffectiveness), made the conference finals with keith bogans as a starter. Yes, I believe defense is important.