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Euroleague Rising Star Trophy has 1st repeat winner

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Re: Euroleague Rising Star Trophy has 1st repeat winner

Postby P.C. on Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:13 pm

blumeany wrote:
BeKuK wrote:
dougthonus wrote:It will be interesting to see if he ever comes over, his contract will make that difficult.


I see your ponit, but he'll be a bull sooner or later. I don't believe the Bulls FO would ever pick a player without being clear about every possible scenario.



I'm hoping he decides to come over sooner rather than later. I would think that if he came over last season, he'd take a cut, but he'd be entering his prime come his next contract. Compare that to if he says another 3 years. He'd be older coming into the league and may or may not get that big Second NBA contract.


The problem with this thinking is that Mirotic could theoretically sign a one year contract when the rookie scale no longer governs in 2014-15. If he comes over next season he's not an unrestricted free agent until after the 2015-16 season. He could be in a much better financial place, having established himself, if he comes over next season, but you get the point.
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Re: Euroleague Rising Star Trophy has 1st repeat winner

Postby Chicago1Rose on Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:14 pm

Nikola Mirotic @ nikolamirotic12
Muchas gracias a todos por felicitaciones. ¡Un honor y gran responsabilidad para seguir luchando y dar alegría a nuestros aficcionados!

my twitter auto translates it to:
Nikola Mirotic @ nikolamirotic12 Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Thank you very much everyone for congratulations. An honor and great responsibility to keep fighting and bring joy to our amateurs!
Reggie Rose wrote:It's frustrating to see my brother play his heart and soul out for the team and them not put anything around him.
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Re: Euroleague Rising Star Trophy has 1st repeat winner

Postby JackFinn on Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:33 pm

Hooray for the amateurs and their congratulations!
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Re: The Euroleague Rising Star Trophy has a repeat winner fo

Postby Raptor_Claw on Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:03 pm

Bulls4EverX wrote:The guy is really doing his thing. First time back to back winner never has been done, not Toni Kukoc, Dirk Nowitski, Bargiani, Gasol, etc.


The award did not exist when they played in Europe.
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Re: Euroleague Rising Star Trophy has 1st repeat winner

Postby Ice Man on Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:09 pm

He shoots free throws too well to fit in here.
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Re: Euroleague Rising Star Trophy has 1st repeat winner

Postby WatchYouBleed on Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:47 pm

JackFinn wrote:Hooray for the amateurs and their congratulations!

That twitter translation is really amateurish :P

I don't think Niko is going over to the States any time soon, nor I think he's ready, to be honest. I'm sure he'll eventually cross the Atlantic, though.
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Re: Euroleague Rising Star Trophy has 1st repeat winner

Postby EastBayFJ on Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:09 pm

At a guess I see him playing 2 more years in Europe and consolidating a position as the best big man in European basketball

Come here and play 30 minutes across the 4 / 3 spots and then take the 4 spot in 3 years

You've then got Rose, Mirotic and the unprotected Charlotte pick ( at least top 10 ) in 2015 as your future core and Deng likely entering easing his last decent contract ( he'd be around 31 ) and Noah would be around the same age .

I still believe that Taj and Omer are a big part of that equation for the group in 3 seasons time.

Brewer, Watson and Korver ( in that order- reverse ) not so much . These spots are the rotating role player spots

Boozer and Hamilton are gone by then
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Re: Euroleague Rising Star Trophy has 1st repeat winner

Postby dougthonus on Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:05 am

P.C. wrote:
blumeany wrote:I'm hoping he decides to come over sooner rather than later. I would think that if he came over last season, he'd take a cut, but he'd be entering his prime come his next contract. Compare that to if he says another 3 years. He'd be older coming into the league and may or may not get that big Second NBA contract.


The problem with this thinking is that Mirotic could theoretically sign a one year contract when the rookie scale no longer governs in 2014-15. If he comes over next season he's not an unrestricted free agent until after the 2015-16 season. He could be in a much better financial place, having established himself, if he comes over next season, but you get the point.


If he comes over in 2014-15, he'd still be restricted as a FA for his first three years regardless of the contract he signed. It also seems likely the Bulls would not agree to a one year deal with him and would force him into a 3/10 type of deal in order to lock him in cheap for three years and have him restricted afterwards. Of course, it will depend how well he plays in Europe over that time period.

It's almost impossible for me to believe he comes over next season and at any point where his buyout is so high. If his buyout is 2 million, he'd need to pay 1.5 million himself, and that's more than his entire salary once you factor in taxes (though perhaps he can claim the buyout as an expense and then he would owe nothing in taxes making it basically his full salary). Still, I don't see that working out.

Granted, it's possible that he may be able to negotiate a better buyout from his team in order to make things easier, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
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Re: Euroleague Rising Star Trophy has 1st repeat winner

Postby Att on Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:10 am

Unfortunately, it really doesn't mean anything... The award giving in Europe is embarrassing at best.
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Re: Euroleague Rising Star Trophy has 1st repeat winner

Postby TheSuzerain on Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:40 am

And really embarrassing at worst.
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Re: Euroleague Rising Star Trophy has 1st repeat winner

Postby dougthonus on Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:05 am

It's not a very old award, starting in 2005, but the history is promising:
2005 Erazem Lorbek
2006 Andrea Bargnani
2007 Rudy Fernandez
2008 Danilo Gallinari
2009 Novica Velickovic
2010 Ricky Rubio
2011 and 2012: Nikola Mirotic

Of those players 50% of them [Gallinari, Bargnani, and Rubio] look like very good [though not star] NBA players. One of them (Fernandez) probably could have been a decent NBA player if he could have kept his head on straight. The other two were never drafted because they didn't have NBA type athleticism.

Not a bad hit rate for an indicator of NBA success.
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Re: Euroleague Rising Star Trophy has 1st repeat winner

Postby TheSuzerain on Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:17 am

So a 50% success rate.

He won it two times.

Nikola Mirotic: 100% certain to be a very good NBA player.

It's science (math).
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Re: Euroleague Rising Star Trophy has 1st repeat winner

Postby Raptor_Claw on Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:41 pm

Att wrote:Unfortunately, it really doesn't mean anything... The award giving in Europe is embarrassing at best.


I agree. Euroleague is really amateur in how they give their awards out. Almost every single award is controversial.

dougthonus wrote:It's not a very old award, starting in 2005, but the history is promising:
2005 Erazem Lorbek
2006 Andrea Bargnani
2007 Rudy Fernandez
2008 Danilo Gallinari
2009 Novica Velickovic
2010 Ricky Rubio
2011 and 2012: Nikola Mirotic

Of those players 50% of them [Gallinari, Bargnani, and Rubio] look like very good [though not star] NBA players. One of them (Fernandez) probably could have been a decent NBA player if he could have kept his head on straight. The other two were never drafted because they didn't have NBA type athleticism.

Not a bad hit rate for an indicator of NBA success.


Lorbek was drafted, and could play with the Spurs next year if he wants to. Velickovic is athletic. He was not drafted because he is just a role player on offense - he is a rebounder and garbage man type player. He's easily more athletic than Rubio, so that was not why he was not drafted.
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Re: Euroleague Rising Star Trophy has 1st repeat winner

Postby P.C. on Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:45 pm

dougthonus wrote:
If he comes over in 2014-15, he'd still be restricted as a FA for his first three years regardless of the contract he signed. It also seems likely the Bulls would not agree to a one year deal with him and would force him into a 3/10 type of deal in order to lock him in cheap for three years and have him restricted afterwards. Of course, it will depend how well he plays in Europe over that time period.

It's almost impossible for me to believe he comes over next season and at any point where his buyout is so high. If his buyout is 2 million, he'd need to pay 1.5 million himself, and that's more than his entire salary once you factor in taxes (though perhaps he can claim the buyout as an expense and then he would owe nothing in taxes making it basically his full salary). Still, I don't see that working out.

Granted, it's possible that he may be able to negotiate a better buyout from his team in order to make things easier, but I wouldn't hold my breath.


I think we're in general agreement. Although, I want to note that even though Mirotic would be a RFA for his first three years, if he waited until 2014-2015 to join the NBA, he could enter a long term deal with a substantial overall guaranteed dollar amount after his first season. Mirotic could sign a deal beginning at the MLE theoretically in his second season, and that agreement could balloon, consistent with the Arenas scale, to huge numbers after the first two years of the deal. I have to imagine that players can obtain financing and borrow against the life of their long term deals, so I don't see why a player would view an arenas scale balloon agreement as substantially different than a non-Arenas scale agreement with smaller raises.

I also agree that the Bulls' position allows them some leverage, and that the franchise is unlikely to sign Mirotic to a one year deal. But I don't think this is a purely theoretical debate. Part of our worry seems to be that Mirotic won't come over because the CBA too greatly limits his ability to make up his buyout figure and that doesn't seem accurate. Other options are available, and just because teams haven't signed non-rookie scale first year players to one year contracts -- outside of second round picks with perceived limited ceilings-- doesn't mean that it won't and shouldn't happen in the future.

I do see a possibility of Mirotic coming over next season, though. His buyout, according to KC, is 2M Euros, or about $2.6M (the foreign press is consistently reporting a 5M Euro buyout) but, as you mentioned, he can always negotiate a smaller figure. Real Madrid's power forward lineup has been a source of contention all season. Begic has been great at center for Real Madrid and is a bruiser, but Tomic, the team's other center, has been wildly erratic and looks too soft for Euroleague play. It would be easy to say that Real Madrid should ship Tomic, and I've read some people in the media make that argument, but he has a great report with Real Madrid's point guard Sergio Llull -- who has also been erratic all season and is signed through 2013-14.

The best option, if money didn't matter, would be to dump Tomic, dump Llull, and sign another center who can guard the rim. The franchise could rely on interior defense and offense from Rudy Fernandez, who is a done deal for next season. But that's never going to happen for financial reasons.

The easier semi-answer for fixing Real Madrid's roster appears to be to bring in a bruising power forward to play alongside Tomic, and then keeping Llull -- which is why I'm not surprised that we've heard such consistent chatter about the franchise signing Marcus Slaughter.

Singing Slaughter just creates additional roster turmoil though. Reyes, Real Madrid's team captain and face of the franchise, isn't going anywhere and demands minutes as a backup. The weakest part of his game is guarding the rim.

If Real Madrid wants to keep Llull and Tomic, and is going to sign Slaughter, then the only solution, since Reyes isn't going anywhere, is to option Velichkovic to another franchise or let Mirotic sign in the NBA. Letting Mirotic go to the NBA is the cheaper solution. And does the franchise really want to keep him if he wants to play in the NBA? Mirotic's NBA aspirations have seemed to me from the outside to have created tension with the franchise this season, and by not letting him leave this off season they would be essentially committing to him for at least another two seasons. That's not a great recipe for success.

I still think it's more likely than not that Real Madrid options Velichkovic to another franchise and keeps Mirotic but I think there is a real possibility that they elect to do otherwise.

One last comment: don't sleep on former Rising Star winner Erazem Lorbek's NBA prospects. The Spurs acquired him in the George Hill-Kawhi Leonard trade. He isn't quick as compared to NBA power forwards but he's long and is a very skilled and composed player. I wouldn't be shocked if the Spurs brought Lorbek over and he had a decent NBA career.
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Re: Euroleague Rising Star Trophy has 1st repeat winner

Postby Raptor_Claw on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:22 pm

The voting results top 5:

1. Nikola Mirotic

2. Furkan Aldemir

3. Milan Macvan

4. Kostas Sloukas

5. Donatas Motiejunas
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