Official Trade Thread XIX: 3/14/12 - 6/22/12

[montestewart]

Jordan Crawford for Jodie Meeks. Sure. Meeks is a more selective and efficient shooter

Trevor Booker for Gary Neal. Maybe, his shooting numbers look pretty good, but don't know much about him, and Booker could net more in return.

Jan Vesely for Courtney Lee and Patrick Patterson. Not bad value, but Vesely has the highest upside and is moving toward it, with a skill set the team will have a hard time replacing.

Andray Blatche & Jordan Crawford for Mo Williams. Oh fu...I mean, yes.

Trevor Booker for Luke Babbit. Maybe. Unlike Neal, Babbitt's a recent mid-1st round pick. Good outside shot, not much PT. I think Booker's worth more, but maybe I'm overvaluing him.

[montestewart]

Terrible trade for us in my opinion. Amare doesn't play defense and we already have a crowded front court. I would only consider it if they took Blatche off our hands, but even then I'd prefer to form a team with a defensive identity.

Same here. Too bad there's not a DH in basketball. He'd be perfect.

[miller31time]

Terrible trade for us in my opinion. Amare doesn't play defense and we already have a crowded front court. I would only consider it if they took Blatche off our hands, but even then I'd prefer to form a team with a defensive identity.

Fair enough.

I look at it like this, though: we're not likely to get much in free agency next off-season. Dwight isn't coming here and Harden isn't either. This would essentially be guaranteeing a star big-man and actually use the capspace in a positive way. Nene can cover the tougher PF/C from the opposing team so the defensive issue doesn't concern me as much as it does you.

[willbcocks]

Who's going to cover the guards who slash in for layups? With bigs, it's not just about their assignment, it's about how they cover the pick and roll, how they cut off penetration, etc. Amare does none of that--and he's not a good rebounder (nor is Nene). Our team would have 33 million for 3 years invested in a flawed pf/c rotation.

Add in the fact that Vesely looks like a legit player, and it just seems like it would flush all the rebuilding progress we've made right down the toilet.

[dangermouse]

I'd rather stick with Seraphin at PF than go for Amare.

Mostly because he costs 10% of what Amare costs and he brings better defense.

[miller31time]

Who's going to cover the guards who slash in for layups? With bigs, it's not just about their assignment, it's about how they cover the pick and roll, how they cut off penetration, etc. Amare does none of that--and he's not a good rebounder (nor is Nene). Our team would have 33 million for 3 years invested in a flawed pf/c rotation.

Amare isn't a good defender but he also isn't incompetent and immobile. It's not like the other team is going 5 on 4 when he's on the floor and Nene is an excellent help defender. And let's not fool ourselves, in the right system (and ours would be "right" for him), Amare is possibly the best offensive power forward in the league. Players his caliber don't grow on trees. Our team defense would take a hit but the improvement in our offense would be astronomical.

I'd caution wanting such a good defensive team that we start to forget that we suck at actually putting the ball through the cylinder.

Add in the fact that Vesely looks like a legit player, and it just seems like it would flush all the rebuilding progress we've made right down the toilet.

I'm still not sold on Vesely nor do I think Seraphin is ready to assume the title of consistent contributor on this team. Having the two of them playing 15 and 20 minutes per game respectively seems like great roles for unpolished young big men.

Nothing is being flushed. Rather, we're taking the next step in the process -- building a really competitive team with room for major growth. Wall, Nene, Stoudemire and our lotto pick (Beal, MKG, whomever) is a core we never would have dreamed about at the end of the Arenas era.

[rockymac52]

If we're going to trade for Amare, I'd rather do it next summer after we've (hopefully) spent our cap space on a max contract free agent (or close to it). Mostly because I have the same reservations about Amare that have already been mentioned here, and because I don't want to lose out on that possible max contract free agent in 2013.

With that said, I think Amare likes New York quite a bit despite all the drama, and he doesn't want to leave anytime soon. The Knicks are more likely to get tired of Amare and try to trade him for another good player at a different position (ideally point guard). I still think they should have tried to lure Deron Williams away from the Nets with Amare this past season. Maybe they tried, and the Nets wouldn't budge, but who knows? I also still think an Amare and Chandler for Dwight swap could be great for everyone involved.

[rockymac52]

But we might not be able to pull off a trade for Amare next summer, just because I don't know how many valuable assets we'd realistically have and be able to give away in a trade. If we do the Lewis/Booker deal mentioned earlier, the Knicks would at least have some cap flexibility again. Not sure off the top of my head if it would be enough to be a major player in free agency this year or next, but I think it would if I recall correctly.

Knicks could go after Deron Williams or Chris Paul (don't forget he hasn't signed an extension yet, only has one year left) or even Dwight Howard. Three guys anybody would take over Amare in a heartbeat. And they'd add a good big man off the bench in Booker (something they could really use).

[willbcocks]

Next summer we're likely able to offer NY something even better than Lewis at 22mil a year (tough to imagine, I know)--a TPE of the same size. And we shouldn't need other assets, at least not that we'd be giving to NY. They should be giving us assets, but sadly they don't have much to give.

/toomuchitalics

[rockymac52]

What can we realistically get in return for Vesely? Could we get a 1st round pick in this draft for him? If so, what range are we talking?

Personally I'm not sold on Vesely at all. But I'm also not ready to give up on him, because I definitely see the upside and he's made a lot of progress in just one year. But we have Nene, Seraphin, Booker, and Blatche (he's still just as talented as the rest of our bigs other than Nene, honestly). I just don't see the point in hanging onto alllll of our bigs if we could get something of value in return. I'm least confident in Vesely out of the bunch. And he's also the youngest (I think?) and the most recently and highest drafted. So that should help his value.

[willbcocks]

It's tough to gauge what other teams think of him. I'm sure the opinions on this board are all over the place. Here's who I would trade our bigs for:

Vesley: Top 4 pick
Seraphin: Top 10 pick (if we draft Davis or Robinson, otherwise I'd say Top 4)
Booker: Top 25 pick
Blatche: Salmonellic ham sandwich

Vesely came on strong at the end and really reminds me of Noah. His bball IQ is off the charts and translates into winning plays (steals, blocks, charges, assists), and he has shown the ability to be a solid rebounder and decent offensive player. I also think he's a perfect fit with Nene and Seraphin.

Do other teams see this, or do they see a guy who can't shoot, gets pushed around at times on D, and played better against weak/resting competition at the end of a strike shortened season? My guess is a combo and his trade value's more like a mid-first round pick.

[nate33]

So Washington gives up Booker to get the 9th pick, while taking on 3 years of Prince, whose declining steadily, and 2 more years of Gordon. I don't see value in Prince one iota. Gordon I can understand. Honestly though, who is Washington taking with the 9th pick that's better than Booker, especially considering all the flexibility sacrificed in the process? Is Sullinger better? No, is Perry Jones better? No, is Jeremy Lamb better, maybe, but at the expense of 3 years of Prince, prolly not. I wouldn't even consider this unless Washington lands Davis.

The reason why several of those guys are better than Booker is because they are locked into a rookie deal for 4 years. Booker's contract is up in 2 years, and there's a good chance we won't be able to pay him since Wall and Seraphin are also up for new contracts. Turning Booker into a rookie gives us a player who will be cheap for all 4 remaining years of Nene's contract.

[nate33]

Fair enough.

I look at it like this, though: we're not likely to get much in free agency next off-season. Dwight isn't coming here and Harden isn't either.

I don't think this argument applies anymore. I expect that by the middle of next season, the Wizards will not longer be viewed with contempt by the rest of the league.

We have Nene, Seraphin and Booker controlling the paint now. All 3 are physical. All 3 love to play defense. We have a new identity. I'm absolutely certain we will be a competent team next year. The real question is whether or not Wall improves substantially in the offseason. If Wall shows up next year looking like an All Star, we will suddenly become one of the better free agent destinations in the league.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Terrible trade for us in my opinion. Amare doesn't play defense and we already have a crowded front court. I would only consider it if they took Blatche off our hands, but even then I'd prefer to form a team with a defensive identity.

Same here. Too bad there's not a DH in basketball. He'd be perfect.

Now there's a thought, monte. The NBA creates a role for Cecil Fielder type players.

DeJuan Blair would own that position. Mike Sweetney might have some hope if the NBA expands the rosters. A lot of retired players like Charles Barkely could play to age 50 or so if the NBA had a DH.

Micheal Jordan would definitely come back to NBA DH, monte.

[GUYANNAGRIZZLI]

I think the nunber one concern of Wiz gm is to trade Blatch because he don't match with the new Wizards team we have seen lately and it won't be easy to trade him alone because he is a really bad reputation but if you trade him with Booker or with Crawford i think you get a good role player back.
Also which seems impossible to see considering the last games of the Wiz it's trading KS who is already next year as good as Amlare considering his job on both ends and also Vesely who is a very athletic and 6.11 player which a huge help on defense,rebounds and tip shots