My Manifesto

[KingCuban]

But how often are series among top-tier teams flat-out laughers?

I think a lot of teams that get sent home early can feel like they were only "a few 4th quarters away".

Not 4th quarters, the last 2 minutes.

Their is a difference.

With a few things going our way, we could have been up 2-1 and that series looks a helluva lot different.

But again, couldn't the Pacers say the same thing about us?

The first 4 games of that series were toss-ups, and they SHOULD have won game one.

The difference was we had Rose, and they didn't. And that's usually the case in the playoffs; the team with the best player(s) wins.

Of course they could.

If they got things done and took their opportunities they could have made it 7 games let alone winning the whole series. No doubt.

After all, this is what playoff basketball is all about, taking your opportunities and mentally being focused more than your opponent. Dallas did it for the entire playoff series last season. They got it done.

[Shill4Tyrus24]

Does anyone here think the Pacers are legitimate title contenders?

I don't.

You're ignoring the valid points and again simply focusing on the W or L.

Because that's what matters.

I watched all the games. I understand the points that are being addressed.

My point is that a lot of teams that got sent him early can talk about how they ALMOST won this series, or that series.

A lot of teams probably felt like they ALMOST beat Jordan's Bulls, or Shaq/Kobe's Lakers, or the Spurs, etc...

The best teams somehow always seem to take it to another level and win those close games.

[Shill4Tyrus24]

Of course they could.

If they got things done and took their opportunities they could have made it 7 games let alone winning the whole series. No doubt.

After all, this is what playoff basketball is all about, taking your opportunities and mentally being focused more than your opponent. Dallas did it for the entire playoff series last season. They got it done.

I think the Pacers are kidding themselves if they think their current team is a legitimate contender.

Question: how many close series losses to Miami would it take to convince you that they're simply better, and the chances of our current roster beating them is very slim?

One more loss? Two? Three?

At some point you gotta call a spade a spade. It's unfortunate that Rose got hurt, because I think we would've had a more vivid picture of our long-term prospects of getting past the heat.

[KingCuban]

Does anyone here think the Pacers are legitimate title contenders?

I don't.

You're ignoring the valid points and again simply focusing on the W or L.

Because that's what matters.

I watched all the games. I understand the points that are being addressed.

My point is that a lot of teams that got sent him early can talk about how they ALMOST won this series, or that series.

A lot of teams probably felt like they ALMOST beat Jordan's Bulls, or Shaq/Kobe's Lakers, or the Spurs, etc...

The best teams somehow always seem to take it to another level and win those close games.

Boston almost beat LA in 7 games, should they have blown it up or made some serious changes?

The answer is no.

As i said, just because you lose doesnt mean you need to up root the whole damn thing and trade away a few guys.

Sometimes you just have to learn from these mistakes and pray when you get into that same situation you correct them.

I mean, this team didnt even get the opportunity to face Miami in the ECF again.

If we failed again, made the same mistakes again that cost us games late then yes, you have an argument, but i will continue to think we were that close to making the finals last season, and their is nothing wrong with that.

Sports isnt as simple as yes and no answers.

[Shill4Tyrus24]

Boston almost beat LA in 7 games, should they have blown it up or made some serious changes?

The answer is no.

As i said, just because you lose doesnt mean you need to up root the whole damn thing and trade away a few guys.

Sometimes you just have to learn from these mistakes and pray when you get into that same situation you correct them.

I mean, this team didnt even get the opportunity to face Miami in the ECF again.

If we failed again, made the same mistakes again that cost us games late then yes, you have an argument, but i will continue to think we were that close to making the finals last season, and their is nothing wrong with that.

Sports isnt as simple as yes and no answers.

Why would Boston have broken up a team that won the title?

I don't think that's analogous to our situation.

[Indomitable]

Boston almost beat LA in 7 games, should they have blown it up or made some serious changes?

The answer is no.

As i said, just because you lose doesnt mean you need to up root the whole damn thing and trade away a few guys.

Sometimes you just have to learn from these mistakes and pray when you get into that same situation you correct them.

I mean, this team didnt even get the opportunity to face Miami in the ECF again.

If we failed again, made the same mistakes again that cost us games late then yes, you have an argument, but i will continue to think we were that close to making the finals last season, and their is nothing wrong with that.

Sports isnt as simple as yes and no answers.

Why would Boston have broken up a team that won the title?

I don't think that's analogous to our situation.

They took them to 7.
They beat the Bulls in 5 games. It was not that close.

[KingCuban]

Boston almost beat LA in 7 games, should they have blown it up or made some serious changes?

The answer is no.

As i said, just because you lose doesnt mean you need to up root the whole damn thing and trade away a few guys.

Sometimes you just have to learn from these mistakes and pray when you get into that same situation you correct them.

I mean, this team didnt even get the opportunity to face Miami in the ECF again.

If we failed again, made the same mistakes again that cost us games late then yes, you have an argument, but i will continue to think we were that close to making the finals last season, and their is nothing wrong with that.

Sports isnt as simple as yes and no answers.

Why would Boston have broken up a team that won the title?

I don't think that's analogous to our situation.

My point is that they were so close so why break it all up?

We were so close and didnt get an opportunity to redeem ourselves this season.

Im just saying i dont think we are that behind these 2 'dynasties' with this current lineup.

[WinCity]

We were so close and didnt get an opportunity to redeem ourselves this season.

Im just saying i dont think we are that behind these 2 'dynasties' with this current lineup.

Are you comparing the Bulls to the LA and BOS teams of 2008-2010?f Or were you referring to the Shaq/Kobe Lakers and MJ Bulls?

I have to say on both fronts you would be dead wrong. The Bulls are far more common place than either set. They are built along the line of a number of 1 star teams like the James Cavs, Paul Hornets, Dwight Magic, Ewing Knicks, the Miller Pacers, and more recently Dirk Mavs. Of those all the most successful was obviously Dirk but he did get Terry playing at a star level for their run. We are going to either need to get a 2nd star to get to the level of those "dynasties" or get a Terry type who can get hot and carry the load with Rose for stretches at least.

[WinCity]

Yes it is. Wade had a really bad ECF last year and Miami still won 4-1. I think Wade is declining NOW so I stick by what I said.

And it could have easily been us up 2-1.

D Wade had a poor series, but he wasnt injured/declining, we just stopped him.

You stop one of the big 3, they still have 2 others that can kill you.

If Wade declines, you dont put as much time into him and try to stop the other 2.

I know getting down on our team and being negative is the flavour of the month, but we were so damn close last season, even if we lost 4-1.

I agree with UGA that James/Bosh would be enough to eliminate this current Bulls team. With both those guys going all out you get a better result than when Wade is in the mix and trying to share the ball with 3 guys. I think James/Bosh is actually a better big 2 than Wade/James. I think Wade/James really only compliment each other well in the fast break whereas with Bosh you can run PnR and Bosh can stretch the floor to create penetration lanes. Plus in the ECF it was Bosh/James killing us Wade was struggling.

[coldfish]

OK, I have to ask. Many of you want a team that would be clear favorites over Miami or OKC.

How do you even get that? What does that even look like? Trade for Howard and then somehow convince Blake Griffin or Kevin Love to sign for the MLE?

You guys are going to be miserable . . . . forever. The Bulls don't have MJ anymore. They aren't getting two more top 10 players.

The Bulls are about as good this year as they realistically are going to get. I guess I see why you guys want to trade players for lottery picks. Its a one in a million chance, but maybe you land multiple top 10 players in a row with lottery picks(like OKC did). If you guys truly hate anything less than that to the point where a 60 win team and a 15 win team are equally miserable, then you are right. Blow it up.

[fleet]

OK, I have to ask. Many of you want a team that would be clear favorites over Miami or OKC.

How do you even get that? What does that even look like? Trade for Howard and then somehow convince Blake Griffin or Kevin Love to sign for the MLE?

You guys are going to be miserable . . . . forever. The Bulls don't have MJ anymore. They aren't getting two more top 10 players.

The Bulls are about as good this year as they realistically are going to get. I guess I see why you guys want to trade players for lottery picks. Its a one in a million chance, but maybe you land multiple top 10 players in a row with lottery picks(like OKC did). If you guys truly hate anything less than that to the point where a 60 win team and a 15 win team are equally miserable, then you are right. Blow it up.

Short of being able to trade for a Dwight Howard or some other pie in the sky, I don't stand pat anyways.

The Bulls do have a fairly reasonable rationale if they at least decided to reload with a slightly different cast. Namely, the financial rationale. Beyond that, there are the basketball reasons of which are a possibly injury prone roster. And I believe that if you have a team that can never seem to get over the hump, and needs supreme effort and defense to supplement neccessary scoring, that kind of roster can get stale after awhile. and oft-injured rosters generally don't get much more healthy than they are in their mid 20's. I shuffle the deck and try something different.

It possibly comes down to the way different fans look at things. As good as they are now, they can't break through for one reason or another. I doubt they could do it consistently (break through), unless they were as young and fresh as the Thunder. But they aren't. They have guys like Deng Noah and Taj who will be older than the Thunder studs when Rose comes back on line 100%, and they as a group are usually banged up. I am one of those people who likes to attempt to build a dynasty as opposed to just being real good and hanging around in the playoffs until they can have one magical year to win it all once. So as risky to the status quo as it may be, I would take the reckless path. But my core is Noah, Rose and hopefully Mirotic. Maybe Taj can hang around too. Given the financials, the Bulls can use this next year to retool and trade a package with Deng as the centerpiece. I cash in the Bobcats pick ASAP while Rose is as young as possible. I don't wait. I trade into this years lottery if I can.

[coldfish]

OK, I have to ask. Many of you want a team that would be clear favorites over Miami or OKC.

How do you even get that? What does that even look like? Trade for Howard and then somehow convince Blake Griffin or Kevin Love to sign for the MLE?

You guys are going to be miserable . . . . forever. The Bulls don't have MJ anymore. They aren't getting two more top 10 players.

The Bulls are about as good this year as they realistically are going to get. I guess I see why you guys want to trade players for lottery picks. Its a one in a million chance, but maybe you land multiple top 10 players in a row with lottery picks(like OKC did). If you guys truly hate anything less than that to the point where a 60 win team and a 15 win team are equally miserable, then you are right. Blow it up.

Short of being able to trade for a Dwight Howard or some other pie in the sky, I don't stand pat anyways.

The Bulls do have a fairly reasonable rationale if they at least decided to reload with a slightly different cast. Namely, the financial rationale. Beyond that, there are the basketball reasons of which are a possibly injury prone roster. And I believe that if you have a team that can never seem to get over the hump, and needs supreme effort and defense to supplement neccessary scoring, that kind of roster can get stale after awhile. and oft-injured rosters generally don't get much more healthy than they are in their early to mid 20's. I shuffle the deck and try something different.

It possibly comes down to the way different fans look at things. As good as they are now, they can't break through. I am one of those people who likes to attempt to build a dynasty as opposed to just being real good and hanging around in the playoffs until they can have one magical year to win it all once. So as risky to the status quo as it may be, I would take the reckless path. But my core is Noah, Rose and hopefully Mirotic. Maybe Taj can hang around too. Given the financials, the Bulls can use thuis next year to retool and trade a package with Deng as the centerpiece. I cash in the Bobcats pick ASAP while Rose is as young as possible. I don't wait. I trade into this years lottery if I can.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here. I'm asking an honest question. Why are you a Bulls fan? You know in your heart that the team will never be a dynasty again. Ever. Even in the one in a million chance you land another MJ or multiple top 10 players, the CBA would bust that team up in a year or two. For a team outside of NY or LA, I don't even think a dynasty is possible.

Look at it this way, even Miami isn't good enough for you. They are in financial problems and are certainly not guaranteed winners. With Wade clearly declining, they got maybe another year or two. OKC? They are about to lose Ibaka and or Harden. With both teams, you are going to end up getting a magical year or two only to fall back and that's what you said you don't want.

[WinCity]

OK, I have to ask. Many of you want a team that would be clear favorites over Miami or OKC.

How do you even get that? What does that even look like? Trade for Howard and then somehow convince Blake Griffin or Kevin Love to sign for the MLE?

You guys are going to be miserable . . . . forever. The Bulls don't have MJ anymore. They aren't getting two more top 10 players.

The Bulls are about as good this year as they realistically are going to get. I guess I see why you guys want to trade players for lottery picks. Its a one in a million chance, but maybe you land multiple top 10 players in a row with lottery picks(like OKC did). If you guys truly hate anything less than that to the point where a 60 win team and a 15 win team are equally miserable, then you are right. Blow it up.

Short of being able to trade for a Dwight Howard or some other pie in the sky, I don't stand pat anyways.

The Bulls do have a fairly reasonable rationale if they at least decided to reload with a slightly different cast. Namely, the financial rationale. Beyond that, there are the basketball reasons of which are a possibly injury prone roster. And I believe that if you have a team that can never seem to get over the hump, and needs supreme effort and defense to supplement neccessary scoring, that kind of roster can get stale after awhile. and oft-injured rosters generally don't get much more healthy than they are in their mid 20's. I shuffle the deck and try something different.

It possibly comes down to the way different fans look at things. As good as they are now, they can't break through for one reason or another. I doubt they could do it consistently (break through), unless they were as young and fresh as the Thunder. But they aren't. They have guys like Deng Noah and Taj who will be older than the Thunder studs when Rose comes back on line 100%, and they as a group are usually banged up. I am one of those people who likes to attempt to build a dynasty as opposed to just being real good and hanging around in the playoffs until they can have one magical year to win it all once. So as risky to the status quo as it may be, I would take the reckless path. But my core is Noah, Rose and hopefully Mirotic. Maybe Taj can hang around too. Given the financials, the Bulls can use thuis next year to retool and trade a package with Deng as the centerpiece. I cash in the Bobcats pick ASAP while Rose is as young as possible. I don't wait. I trade into this years lottery if I can.

If we could add a Terry type who can score and act as a second option for stretches i think we could stand pat with this cast and have a chance for a title. Short of that you need to retool, and that most likely means Deng and Booz need to be moved. Like you said being a good team and hanging around is not my style. As far as realistic move to get into the lottery I would be great to get Lamb I think he could be a Ray Allen, or worst case Kevin Martin.

[fleet]

OK, I have to ask. Many of you want a team that would be clear favorites over Miami or OKC.

How do you even get that? What does that even look like? Trade for Howard and then somehow convince Blake Griffin or Kevin Love to sign for the MLE?

You guys are going to be miserable . . . . forever. The Bulls don't have MJ anymore. They aren't getting two more top 10 players.

The Bulls are about as good this year as they realistically are going to get. I guess I see why you guys want to trade players for lottery picks. Its a one in a million chance, but maybe you land multiple top 10 players in a row with lottery picks(like OKC did). If you guys truly hate anything less than that to the point where a 60 win team and a 15 win team are equally miserable, then you are right. Blow it up.

Short of being able to trade for a Dwight Howard or some other pie in the sky, I don't stand pat anyways.

The Bulls do have a fairly reasonable rationale if they at least decided to reload with a slightly different cast. Namely, the financial rationale. Beyond that, there are the basketball reasons of which are a possibly injury prone roster. And I believe that if you have a team that can never seem to get over the hump, and needs supreme effort and defense to supplement neccessary scoring, that kind of roster can get stale after awhile. and oft-injured rosters generally don't get much more healthy than they are in their early to mid 20's. I shuffle the deck and try something different.

It possibly comes down to the way different fans look at things. As good as they are now, they can't break through. I am one of those people who likes to attempt to build a dynasty as opposed to just being real good and hanging around in the playoffs until they can have one magical year to win it all once. So as risky to the status quo as it may be, I would take the reckless path. But my core is Noah, Rose and hopefully Mirotic. Maybe Taj can hang around too. Given the financials, the Bulls can use thuis next year to retool and trade a package with Deng as the centerpiece. I cash in the Bobcats pick ASAP while Rose is as young as possible. I don't wait. I trade into this years lottery if I can.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here. I'm asking an honest question. Why are you a Bulls fan? You know in your heart that the team will never be a dynasty again. Ever. Even in the one in a million chance you land another MJ or multiple top 10 players, the CBA would bust that team up in a year or two. For a team outside of NY or LA, I don't even think a dynasty is possible.

Look at it this way, even Miami isn't good enough for you. They are in financial problems and are certainly not guaranteed winners. With Wade clearly declining, they got maybe another year or two. OKC? They are about to lose Ibaka and or Harden. With both teams, you are going to end up getting a magical year or two only to fall back and that's what you said you don't want.

I probably can't get Dwight Howard, but I can try to build a 2-3 time winner (over the next 8-10 years) as opposed to rolling with the current group that may or may not get healthy or good or lucky enough once. I don't like being the 90s Knicks or Pacers. Other people are fine with that, and thats understandable. Not for me. I go for it. I have to when I see teams like the Heat and Thunder out there. Maybe its not realistic, but I do. Maybe the Bulls don't, because they sell out no matter what. But I as a fan, thats what I want to do. Keep working it until I can roll out 2-3 top 25 players. Or just more talent than I have now. Maybe I won't ever get anywhere with the project, but I do know one thing. This current team probably won't be able to get through both the Heat and Thunder on the way to a title. I mean either way you are telling me I should give up, and be happy with the try hard bunch that never accomplished anything who is losing yet another season after this past season. If this team was a team that ever has made it to the finals previous, that would be different. But thats not the case. BTW, the 90s Pacers and the Knicks didn't sit still for long either. they tried to get better. Losers should never sit still imo.

[fleet]

OK, I have to ask. Many of you want a team that would be clear favorites over Miami or OKC.

How do you even get that? What does that even look like? Trade for Howard and then somehow convince Blake Griffin or Kevin Love to sign for the MLE?

You guys are going to be miserable . . . . forever. The Bulls don't have MJ anymore. They aren't getting two more top 10 players.

The Bulls are about as good this year as they realistically are going to get. I guess I see why you guys want to trade players for lottery picks. Its a one in a million chance, but maybe you land multiple top 10 players in a row with lottery picks(like OKC did). If you guys truly hate anything less than that to the point where a 60 win team and a 15 win team are equally miserable, then you are right. Blow it up.

Short of being able to trade for a Dwight Howard or some other pie in the sky, I don't stand pat anyways.

The Bulls do have a fairly reasonable rationale if they at least decided to reload with a slightly different cast. Namely, the financial rationale. Beyond that, there are the basketball reasons of which are a possibly injury prone roster. And I believe that if you have a team that can never seem to get over the hump, and needs supreme effort and defense to supplement neccessary scoring, that kind of roster can get stale after awhile. and oft-injured rosters generally don't get much more healthy than they are in their mid 20's. I shuffle the deck and try something different.

It possibly comes down to the way different fans look at things. As good as they are now, they can't break through for one reason or another. I doubt they could do it consistently (break through), unless they were as young and fresh as the Thunder. But they aren't. They have guys like Deng Noah and Taj who will be older than the Thunder studs when Rose comes back on line 100%, and they as a group are usually banged up. I am one of those people who likes to attempt to build a dynasty as opposed to just being real good and hanging around in the playoffs until they can have one magical year to win it all once. So as risky to the status quo as it may be, I would take the reckless path. But my core is Noah, Rose and hopefully Mirotic. Maybe Taj can hang around too. Given the financials, the Bulls can use thuis next year to retool and trade a package with Deng as the centerpiece. I cash in the Bobcats pick ASAP while Rose is as young as possible. I don't wait. I trade into this years lottery if I can.

If we could add a Terry type who can score and act as a second option for stretches i think we could stand pat with this cast and have a chance for a title. Short of that you need to retool, and that most likely means Deng and Booz need to be moved. Like you said being a good team and hanging around is not my style. As far as realistic move to get into the lottery I would be great to get Lamb I think he could be a Ray Allen, or worst case Kevin Martin.

I think we can stay largely the same team, but I am ready to switch out a couple players and go for new blood. Again, there is a a high probability in my mind that in 2 years this current team will be stale with a weaker bench and just more highly paid with injury prone guys. One way or another, standing pat means finding room and money below the lux tax for Mirotic. I make moves now to lower the payroll, cash in the Bobcats pick while Rose is still fresh as a daisy and retain some assets like Gibson or Asik at least for further moves down the line unless I need them for aquisitions immediately. Yes, I get up into the lottery and roll the dice.