Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit?

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Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit? 

Post#21 » by Jan_Sobieski » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:23 pm

bullsnewdynasty wrote:Huge mistake to give BG a $12 million contract.

Dumars has been living on rep for years. Should have been fired along with Kuester last offseason.

Fired? Who would replace him.
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Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit? 

Post#22 » by RTM » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:23 pm

Joe has had 3 major bad moves.

1. Darko

This is excusable. Darko was the consensus #2, and we needed a big. It looks the worst in hindsight, but that's what it is -- hindsight. I was at the NBA store in New York the day after that draft. They had tons of Bron Jerseys, but - I kid you not - Darko was sold out. It doesn't change that Darko was a horrible pick and one of the biggest busts ever, but it's what almost any other GM would have done in that situation.

2. Trading Billups for AI while extending Rip

Blowing up that core wasn't a terrible idea, but to try and keep it around with AI instead of Chauncey was. The team never recovered from the trade, and it slowed Stuckey's development and hastened Rip's decline.

3. Signing Ben Gordon, Charlie Villanueva and Chris Wilcox, trading Afflalo and Amir Johnson to free cap

Joe felt that he had to make something out of the AI deal (which did give us tons of cap space), which makes sense. He just spent it really poorly. There was talk of his #1 target being Boozer, but he didn't opt out like most thought. Regardless, these were BAD.

Other than that, he's been ok. There were the gems he acquired in Wallace, Billups, Hamilton, and McDyess, and a few great trades (Rasheed and getting expirings for Nazr). Contracts given to Stuckey and Prince are totally defensible - they would have gotten similar numbers from other teams, and both are productive. With the exception of Darko, Daye, and some late picks, he's a good drafter (Prince, Okur, Delfino, Maxiell, Amir, Stuckey, Afflalo, Jerebko, Monroe and Knight are all players are/were good enough to see the court for a good team). There were good coaching hires (Carlisle, Brown, Frank) and bad ones (Flip, Curry, Kuester), but the teams have mostly been successful under his tenure.

RealGM only looks at things selectively. Joe's overall resume is still fine, and he hasn't really made a bad move since that one fateful summer. Gores is giving him 2 more years to turn it around, and he's capable. He just doesn't walk on water like he did in the mid 2000s.
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Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit? 

Post#23 » by Jase » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:52 pm

CHA_77_Bobcats wrote:Knight's a blossoming star now?


Yeah. I would say so.
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Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit? 

Post#24 » by FlipTSO » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:58 pm

bullsnewdynasty wrote:Huge mistake to give BG a $12 million contract.

Dumars has been living on rep for years. Should have been fired along with Kuester last offseason.


I can think of plenty of GM's who have given out far worse contracts than a $12 mil/yr deal to Gordon.

The names John Paxson/Ben Wallace and the number $15 mil comes to mind...
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Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit? 

Post#25 » by AnaheimRoyale » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:34 am

He's been awful for year and years now. Alot of the 2004 team was luck, and planning to build a team in that way is folly, because it's relying on a series of near impossible events to happen. He's made many, many mistakes over the years, and is living off his past rep as a great GM.
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Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit? 

Post#26 » by princeofpalace » Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:21 am

FlipTSO wrote:
bullsnewdynasty wrote:Huge mistake to give BG a $12 million contract.

Dumars has been living on rep for years. Should have been fired along with Kuester last offseason.


I can think of plenty of GM's who have given out far worse contracts than a $12 mil/yr deal to Gordon.

The names John Paxson/Ben Wallace and the number $15 mil comes to mind...


Lets not forget the Carlos Boozer signing now either
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Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit? 

Post#27 » by SEBAS-07 » Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:35 am

Why did he resign Tayshaun Prince?
Smart / Micic / D. Wright
Wiggins / Exum / J. Adams
Parker / K. Anderson / Mcdermott
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Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit? 

Post#28 » by dballislife » Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:53 am

hes either been near genius or absolutely dreadful, at one point he coulda been best GM in game now hes definitely among the worst
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Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit? 

Post#29 » by Zane » Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:53 am

He spent way too much on Gordon to play him 26 minutes a game and he doesn't seem to fit well with the team (or at least didn't his first year).
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Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit? 

Post#30 » by Zane » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:04 am

FlipTSO wrote:
bullsnewdynasty wrote:Huge mistake to give BG a $12 million contract.

Dumars has been living on rep for years. Should have been fired along with Kuester last offseason.


I can think of plenty of GM's who have given out far worse contracts than a $12 mil/yr deal to Gordon.

The names John Paxson/Ben Wallace and the number $15 mil comes to mind...


Ben Wallace was there for what, 1.5 seasons? Ben Gordon is getting paid 12 million to average 12 points a game and even has a player option for 13 million. There have obviously been worse signings but that has nothing to do with the BG signing being pretty bad.
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Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit? 

Post#31 » by schaffy » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:07 am

Jase wrote:
CHA_77_Bobcats wrote:Knight's a blossoming star now?


Yeah. I would say so.


Really?? I dont even see him as a top 5 PG 25 or younger (in no particular order):
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Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit? 

Post#32 » by dice » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:14 am

you could argue he was only ever considered a good GM because he lucked out with castoffs from other teams (wallace, wallace, hamilton, billups)

but to answer the thread question, if isiah got nearly 5 years as GM, dumars gets 25
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Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit? 

Post#33 » by bullsnewdynasty » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:02 am

FlipTSO wrote:
bullsnewdynasty wrote:Huge mistake to give BG a $12 million contract.

Dumars has been living on rep for years. Should have been fired along with Kuester last offseason.


I can think of plenty of GM's who have given out far worse contracts than a $12 mil/yr deal to Gordon.

The names John Paxson/Ben Wallace and the number $15 mil comes to mind...


So you're justifying your GM giving out a bad contract by referencing other GMs who gave out bad contracts?

Not falling for the bait. But funny that you mention Big Ben, because Dumars did offer him a $12 million/yr contract, but Paxson unfortunately outbid him. :lol:
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Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit? 

Post#34 » by FlipTSO » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:10 am

bullsnewdynasty wrote:
FlipTSO wrote:
bullsnewdynasty wrote:Huge mistake to give BG a $12 million contract.

Dumars has been living on rep for years. Should have been fired along with Kuester last offseason.


I can think of plenty of GM's who have given out far worse contracts than a $12 mil/yr deal to Gordon.

The names John Paxson/Ben Wallace and the number $15 mil comes to mind...


So you're justifying your GM giving out a bad contract by referencing other GMs who gave out bad contracts?

Not falling for the bait. But funny that you mention Big Ben, because Dumars did offer him a $12 million/yr contract, but Paxson unfortunately outbid him. :lol:


What are you talking about? I'm just saying for ppl to single out Dumars for signing Gordon is a joke, considering their GM's have likely signed just as many if not more bad contracts. So in response to the thread title, if Joe D should be fired for those signings, then I guess every other GM should too for their bad signings.

The funny thing is that Wallace would've been worth every penny of that $12 mil/yr had he stayed with us, because we knew how to use him. CHI spent $15 mil/yr on a player and had no clue what to do with him. I guess you could say the same for Gordon with us, but thats my point. GM'st with far less accomplishments like Paxson have gaffes here and there as well and don't get fired. Yet ppl think Joe should makes no sense.
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Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit? 

Post#35 » by He Filled it Up » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:19 am

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Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit? 

Post#36 » by AnaheimRoyale » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:30 am

GM's have to be judged in hindsight, for their ability to see ahead of the curve (or not). Context matters, but let's not pretend bad moves become acceptable, provided they "made sense at the time".
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Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit? 

Post#37 » by kurtis48239 » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:59 am

Like many of you I only looked at joe for all the dumb stuff hes done,but when you look at it as a whole hes had a pretty good record.Hes done fairly well over the last couple yrs,so that shows me that all the owner talk is true and he was caught in a tough spot,if he continues on the path hes on now,then why get rid of him.The only thing I blame him for is the AI and billups trade.
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Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit? 

Post#38 » by bullsnewdynasty » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:08 am

FlipTSO wrote:The funny thing is that Wallace would've been worth every penny of that $12 mil/yr had he stayed with us, because we knew how to use him. CHI spent $15 mil/yr on a player and had no clue what to do with him. I guess you could say the same for Gordon with us, but thats my point. GM'st with far less accomplishments like Paxson have gaffes here and there as well and don't get fired. Yet ppl think Joe should makes no sense.


It wasn't that Wallace wasn't utilized correctly in Chicago. Wallace was old and significantly declined by the 2nd year he was in Chicago. I also think he lost some motivation after he got paid. Gordon was definitely a guy who was not utilized correctly. How else can you explain a guy dropping off so much during his prime years, and not even the result of a major injury? It's almost unprecedented.

I'm not evaluating Dumars based on the Gordon decision alone. He also traded Billups for Iverson, dealt Afflalo for nothing, signed Villanueva, and hired Kuester. His only saving grace is that he's been decent at drafting, although Monroe fell in his lap. Prince contract extension was also confusing. You can't tell me that you are satisfied with Dumars after 3-4 years of mediocrity/losing.
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Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit? 

Post#39 » by NiqtheAntiq » Sun Jul 8, 2012 11:07 pm

admitting the Gordon mistake was a move in the right direction. Hope he finds a way to unload Charlie V now. I think the Suns would trade Childress and 2 2nd round picks for Charlie V.
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Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit? 

Post#40 » by Shaheen » Sun Jul 8, 2012 11:09 pm

This is why


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