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Our Projected Depth Chart

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Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#381 » by payitforward » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:31 pm

Nivek wrote:Webster isn't just playing like a legit starter -- his overall production in the preseason rates about the same as what Lebron James did last season. Much of it on outlandishly good efficiency (138 ortg). Hard to imagine him keeping up anything close to that.

On a small sample of 173 minutes, I have Webster w/ a WP48 of .326. That's stellar -- LeBron-like, as you say.

But it's not the only interesting result:

Price was a big surprise. He played 163 minutes and was quite good, posting a .174 WP48 -- better, for example, than any comparable stretch by John Wall (or is there a 163 minute stretch to be found in wch Wall played this well?). Now... he went 13-25 on 3 pt shots, a pace that he obviously won't maintain.

Booker played about the way he played last year -- a little behind that pace, actually, because in this very small sample of 81 minutes he rebounded substantially below his usual pace. Mack played to about the same level as last year.

Chris Singleton was a big, and very positive, surprise. Again, a small sample, but in 111 minutes he played to a .267 WP48. That's all star production; even if he doesn't maintain that level, wch would be expecting too much, it's still a great sign of development.

On the other hand, Beal was not good overall: e.g. he shot 38% (28% from 3-point range).

Vesely was awful. Cook was ok. Barron was just awful despite Hands' comments -- shot 40%, turned it over, etc. Not an NBA player.

Whether you place much confidence in WP48 or not, these are still interesting results: esp. for Webster, Price and Singleton. A team that started guys who produced at that level would win a lot of games.
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Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#382 » by hands11 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:50 pm

loot wrote:Thanks for the insights Hands. I've been hoping for major minutes for Kevin since he was drafted, like him a lot as a starter!


In a lot of way, Kevin is the man to watch this year. There are a lot to watch actually. Booker as well. Could Webster stick ? But back to Kevin.

He finished last year very strong and he grow his game a ton last year. Now we need to know two things. First, can he repeat what he started. And two, can he extend on it. If he can do the later, that begs the question, is he the third piece to the Wall/Beal long term core. The kid is still very young and just getting started.

Clearly this team is not built at the level of a Miami, LA, SA or OKC type teams. That would take several players that are already here becoming top all stars with at least one MVP type. That would be incredibly lucky. We are talking about teams that have Howard, Koke, Paul G, and Nash on the same team. Or LeBron, Wade, Bosh and Ray Allen on the same team. That is a whole different level. Your talking team with several HOF players on them.

But the Wizards could have the pieces to become a solid 4-6th type team that would make a run if they can establish a top defensive team and other teams have injury problems. Wall, Beal, Webster, Kevin can all become very good players. Booker could be a true stud. Really looking forward to seeing what he can do this year. And shorter team Nene is already very good. If they can get him healthy, that would change a lot.
There is even a good chance for Singleton to still prove he is a legit player. He is looking a lot better this year in preseason. His is shooting a with confidence. He has a solid frame for the NBA.

The team has some legit talent. Should be an interesting year. Plenty of room to players to step it up and prove they can be CONSISTENT professional solid NBA players. This is a big year in the rebuild. They have a lot to evaluate regarding who stays and who gets bundled in a trade.

They are clearly not a LAL type model. More of a Bulls type team but not a carbon copy. One super star and a lot of solid players. Solid team D. Lots of players who can pass and play team ball. And plenty of touch guys.

Every team is always building at some level or another so this isn't over. Once they see what they have, they will see better what they need to add next. As of today, they clearly can upgrade by adding better SGs behind Beal. Imagine this team with just one more above average stud at SG. It would look pretty solid. That shouldn't be that hard to do.
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Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#383 » by hands11 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:10 pm

payitforward wrote:
Nivek wrote:Webster isn't just playing like a legit starter -- his overall production in the preseason rates about the same as what Lebron James did last season. Much of it on outlandishly good efficiency (138 ortg). Hard to imagine him keeping up anything close to that.

On a small sample of 173 minutes, I have Webster w/ a WP48 of .326. That's stellar -- LeBron-like, as you say.

But it's not the only interesting result:

Price was a big surprise. He played 163 minutes and was quite good, posting a .174 WP48 -- better, for example, than any comparable stretch by John Wall (or is there a 163 minute stretch to be found in wch Wall played this well?). Now... he went 13-25 on 3 pt shots, a pace that he obviously won't maintain.

Booker played about the way he played last year -- a little behind that pace, actually, because in this very small sample of 81 minutes he rebounded substantially below his usual pace. Mack played to about the same level as last year.

Chris Singleton was a big, and very positive, surprise. Again, a small sample, but in 111 minutes he played to a .267 WP48. That's all star production; even if he doesn't maintain that level, wch would be expecting too much, it's still a great sign of development.

On the other hand, Beal was not good overall: e.g. he shot 38% (28% from 3-point range).

Vesely was awful. Cook was ok. Barron was just awful despite Hands' comments -- shot 40%, turned it over, etc. Not an NBA player.

Whether you place much confidence in WP48 or not, these are still interesting results: esp. for Webster, Price and Singleton. A team that started guys who produced at that level would win a lot of games.


Lets not misrepresent my position on Barron. I only suggested keeping him in the context of the teams roster and injuries to start the year until they know how healthy Nene and Kevin are. Then he would get cut when they return. We have Booker with a hammy. Nene with a foot. Kevin with a calf. Oakfor returning from injury last year. I don't like the idea of going into games with Ves as the only healthy center and Singleton as the PF.

Now I doubt all of those injuries will be problems at the same time but we already know Nene and Kevin are questions. And we know Booker and Okafor can flair up at any time. So to start the year, given what they had in camp, I suggested keep both Barron and Cook to start the year. That's all. Just making the best of a uncertain start to the year.

Here are his numbers from 2 of the last 4 games played in the preseason of which he played in only 3 of them.

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400400574

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400400519

Just to start the year, they could use him as some form of insurance if Nene and Kevin are out.


Webster/Trevor A
Booker/Singleton
Okafor/Ves/Barron/Cook

Because if Booker pulls up lame ( already fighting a hammy), Ves or Okafor have to move to PF and things are looking depleted at center.
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Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#384 » by hands11 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:52 am

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2012/10/2 ... s-released

Mack and Cook released.

Thats along the lines of what I expected/hoped. Would have been nice to keep Cook as well but Martin is owed 1M and they already chose him over Mason so they are going to ride it out.


Wall/Price/Pargo
Beal/Crawford/Martin
Webster/Singlton/Trevor A
Nene/Booker/Ves
Okafor/Kevin/Barron

So to start the season they have.

Price/Pargo
Beal/Crawford/Martin
Webster/Trevor A
Booker/Singleton
Okafor/Ves/Barron

Maybe Randy is thinking more..

Price/Crawford/Pargo
Beal/Webster/Martin
Singleton/Trevor A
Booker/Ves
Okafor/Barron

I expect Crawford will play some PG sets even if Pargo is in there with him just because he is a better ball handler/assists and Pargo is more of a shooter anyway. Plus if Crawford is more focused on PG duties, maybe he won't chuck as much.

Singleton will continue to get some burn at PF until Nene or Kevin return.
Ves will get minute at PF and Center

Good move letting Mack go. He wasn't sticking around longer term anyway. Just not quick enough and not a good enough shooter to make up for it.

And Cook will probably still be there available if and when they want to cut Barron and add his stretch big range.

Good moves.
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Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#385 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:05 am

Nivek wrote:I agree with your definites, although Crawford SHOULD be on the cut list. I don't see the cuts as difficult, though.

Mack over Pargo.

Cook over Barron.


Martin makes the team despite poor preseason play because of what he's done the past couple years and his guaranteed contract.

Barron and Pargo have both been bad in the preseason. Mack and Cook have been at least okay. Easy choices, in my view.

That said, I'd be perfectly willing to cut Barron, Cook, Pargo and Crawford and go shopping for other minimum salary bench filler. I think the Wiz could find street free agents who would do a better job than anyone in that group.


At least the Wizards consistently get it wrong, Nivek.
Bye bye Beal.
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Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#386 » by TheBigThree » Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:53 am

Having Pargo and Crawford on the same team is not a recipe for success.
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Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#387 » by payitforward » Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:57 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
Nivek wrote:I agree with your definites, although Crawford SHOULD be on the cut list. I don't see the cuts as difficult, though.

Mack over Pargo.

Cook over Barron.


Martin makes the team despite poor preseason play because of what he's done the past couple years and his guaranteed contract.

Barron and Pargo have both been bad in the preseason. Mack and Cook have been at least okay. Easy choices, in my view.

That said, I'd be perfectly willing to cut Barron, Cook, Pargo and Crawford and go shopping for other minimum salary bench filler. I think the Wiz could find street free agents who would do a better job than anyone in that group.


At least the Wizards consistently get it wrong, Nivek.

Yup. What a couple of terrible decisions.
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Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#388 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:29 am

Nivek wrote:
<snipped>

That said, I'd be perfectly willing to cut Barron, Cook, Pargo and Crawford and go shopping for other minimum salary bench filler. I think the Wiz could find street free agents who would do a better job than anyone in that group.


Joshua Akognon, Damion James, Sundiata Gaines, Ike Diogu, Andrew Goudelock to name a few.
Bye bye Beal.
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Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#389 » by Dat2U » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:22 pm

So the rotation is this?

G A.J. Price / Jannero Pargo
G Jordan Crawford / Bradley Beal
F Martell Webster / Trevor Ariza / Cartier Martin
F Trevor Booker / Chris Singleton / Jan Vesely
C Emeka Okafor / Kevin Seraphin / Earl Barron

Honestly I would be shocked if we average 90 ppg a game. In fact 90 might be a season high.
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Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#390 » by hands11 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:57 pm

payitforward wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
Nivek wrote:I agree with your definites, although Crawford SHOULD be on the cut list. I don't see the cuts as difficult, though.

Mack over Pargo.

Cook over Barron.


Martin makes the team despite poor preseason play because of what he's done the past couple years and his guaranteed contract.

Barron and Pargo have both been bad in the preseason. Mack and Cook have been at least okay. Easy choices, in my view.

That said, I'd be perfectly willing to cut Barron, Cook, Pargo and Crawford and go shopping for other minimum salary bench filler. I think the Wiz could find street free agents who would do a better job than anyone in that group.


At least the Wizards consistently get it wrong, Nivek.

Yup. What a couple of terrible decisions.


Come on

Pargo over Mack and
Barron over Cook

Hardly qualify as terrible. These are two decisions of preference on the margin for two players that wouldn't even be active once everyone is healthy. Mack lost out to Price. Your crying Wolf. Save your disgust for something worthy of it. Specially since both Mack and Cook will likely be sitting home if they want to call them back. Maybe some team takes a flyer on Cook as a stretch PF/C. Maybe. But most rosters are full right now. Its going to take a few weeks for injuries to happen that would open a slot for him.

As for Mack. I double there is a line of teams looking to add him anytime soon. Same deal. Rosters are full. When injuries happen, maybe he finds a home as a back up.
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Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#391 » by payitforward » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:55 pm

hands11 wrote:Come on

Pargo over Mack and
Barron over Cook

Hardly qualify as terrible.

By which you mean that the delta between the better two and the worse two who were kept isn't meaningful over the small number of minutes you think they'll play. Ok, I understand what you mean.

Only, if you can't make the easy decisions, how you going to make the hard ones? Of course, you're still loving the Okafor/Ariza acquisition.

Once again, 16 players picked after Mack in '11 are on nba teams. Pretty much all of them better teams than the Wizards.

Once again, Mack clearly outplayed Pargo in pre-season, and Barron played in a way that shouldn't get him onto any NBA roster, while Cook wasn't bad.

Tell me, what would it take for you to actually think that Ernie Grunfield made a mistake as a GM? Would he have to trade for someone who actually was dead? How about if he picked a guy in the draft who actually plays in the paralympics?

Would either of those be enough?
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Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#392 » by montestewart » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:13 pm

payitforward wrote:Tell me, what would it take for you to actually think that Ernie Grunfield made a mistake as a GM? Would he have to trade for someone who actually was dead? How about if he picked a guy in the draft who actually plays in the paralympics?

OK, so he's dead, but really, it was a 2nd round pick. Worth a shot, right? Even if it turns out he'd been shot. He was going to be riding pine anyway, so what does it matter if that pine has a lid on it? Really people, you're making a big deal over nothing.
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Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#393 » by hands11 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:34 pm

payitforward wrote:
hands11 wrote:Come on

Pargo over Mack and
Barron over Cook

Hardly qualify as terrible.

By which you mean that the delta between the better two and the worse two who were kept isn't meaningful over the small number of minutes you think they'll play. Ok, I understand what you mean.

Only, if you can't make the easy decisions, how you going to make the hard ones? Of course, you're still loving the Okafor/Ariza acquisition.

Once again, 16 players picked after Mack in '11 are on nba teams. Pretty much all of them better teams than the Wizards.

Once again, Mack clearly outplayed Pargo in pre-season, and Barron played in a way that shouldn't get him onto any NBA roster, while Cook wasn't bad.

Tell me, what would it take for you to actually think that Ernie Grunfield made a mistake as a GM? Would he have to trade for someone who actually was dead? How about if he picked a guy in the draft who actually plays in the paralympics?

Would either of those be enough?


I never said that.

But I did read between the lines and predict that Ted/EG would trade Lewis for one or more players. Why ? Ted said as much. They were going to amnesty Dray if they couldnt move him and Ted wasn't going to eat all the Lewis money on top of that. Is that what I would have done. No. But its not my money. But I can understand not waning to spend 20 + Mil on players you don't have. Specially after doing it on Gil and then Lewis.

As for who I wanted instead of Mack, I wanted them to take a chance on Jerome Tyler. I said that several times. I wanted them to keep Livingston. I wanted them to keep Mason. And everyone wanted James back. But no NBA team signed him for what he wanted.

I did want Beal ever since I saw him first interviewed back when he was ranked like 20th in the draft so I'm happy they landed him.

I did hate an Abe owned team. Or a EFJ coached team. So while everything hasn't gone as I would have done it, I like the Ted/EG/Randy front office better then anything since Nash/Lynam. I like that they did a hard reboot. I agree with them moving McGee, Nick and Dray when they did and I pulled for each and everyone of them when other didn't. So I'm net positive compared to what I have been rooting for in the past with hope for even better in the future. I see a young group with stop gap vets. I see what may be a very pleasant surprise find in Webster. I see a solid young SG in Beal and great finds in Booker and Kevin. Singleton may still even pane out. Wall could still end up a total stud and Ves still shows promise.

Look, there will always be players that front offices miss on every year. Look where Nash was taken. Look at Tony Parker, Carlos Boozer, Kyle Korver, etc.

But go year by year from 2000 till today. The vast majority of 2nd round picks don't make it. Actually the Wiz have done ok hitting on a few second round players who have stuck in the league with guys like Blatche, Steve Blake, and Dom Mac. Thing with these second rounders is, they rarely stay in one place or hit with their first team.
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Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#394 » by montestewart » Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:02 pm

Hands, a lot of people wanted Beal. Regardless, going back to 11/26/2010, it looks like DraftExpress never had him ranked lower than 11th. When was it that he was ranked 20th, when you presciently bucked the experts and started Bealmania, charmed by an interview ?
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Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#395 » by TheBigThree » Sun Nov 4, 2012 1:46 am

Someone convince me this isn't the lineup we should be running with until Wall and Nene are back:

Crawford/Price/Pargo
Beal/Pargo/Cartier
Webster/(Ariza-Singleton)/Vesely
Booker/Vesely/Barron
Seraphin/Okafor/Barron

Crawford is, IMO, a better distributor than both our supposed PGs. He'll turn the ball over, but at least he takes chances and makes tough passes. Pargo is an extremely similar player and has played a combo guard roll is entire career, when Crawford needs a spell you put Price in there and let Pargo put up shots.

Could argue that Beal's bad play so far doesn't warrant keeping him in the starting lineup, but I think if you put him out there with a creative player like Crawford he'd start playing better.

Thoughts?
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Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#396 » by hands11 » Sun Nov 4, 2012 8:07 pm

Ok, two games down and Kevin has returned already. He came off the bench but looked really good.

Here what is up next. They started.

Price, Beal, Trevor A, Booker and Okafor. Then when Kevin came in, Ves complimented him well.

Not a ball handler in that starting line up so no spacing for Beal. That makes it 4 on 5 right there. Then Trevor A is a defensive specialist with bad handles. No offense there. Booker is forced to force his game because he is the best talent on the floor. Okafor is just a defensive/rebounding center/pf. He doesn't have the offense to help that line up and he isn't long enough to be out there with Booker. So with nothing working, Price tries to be a ball handler which he isn't so he chucks up bad shots trying to be more then he is. Just a terrible line up. And the results prove it.

I like Randy a lot but I am very disappointed he actually tried that line up to start the game for two games in a row. But now he has Kevin S back so he has no excuses. Kevin has to start. Work it out based around what would compliment him being in there and balance the line ups. With Kevin starting, you might be able to still start Okafor but I would play no favorites. You could start Ves or even Barron with him. Any of those combination will work better then what we have seen. Kevin is the key. He actually has a post game and can hit the mid range.

Objectively, Crawford is the best ball handler, passer, driver on the team so play him at PG already. Stop being so stubborn. So there are 2 of 5 starters. Crawford and Kevin. Fill in the rest.

Crawford, Beal, Singleton, Kevin, Okafor works for me. That leaves back up of
Price, Martin, Webster, Booker, Ves or Price, Webster, Trevor A, Booker, Ves if you need more D ( and this line up allow the front office to save some face.)

But you have to keep Crawford out there for 42 minutes a game because he is the only true ball handler. And since Crawford is the one sending Beal the right message, I can see Crawford feeding the kid to get his confidence going. They may well be the some situation developing that Nene and Kevin have. I think that is what Beal needs. Crawford would be in his ear tell telling him to take the shot or take it to the hoop.

I didn't see that dynamic developing but I can see how that is what would be best for the team and best for Beal right now. I had been saying he needs to be out there with Crawford for handles and driving ability for spacing. Now I see he also needs to be out there with Crawford so Crawford can instill some toughness into Beal. Its actually a good pairing given what Beal needs to learn.
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Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#397 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Mon Nov 5, 2012 1:23 am

TheBigThree wrote:Someone convince me this isn't the lineup we should be running with until Wall and Nene are back:

Crawford/Price/Pargo
Beal/Pargo/Cartier
Webster/(Ariza-Singleton)/Vesely
Booker/Vesely/Barron
Seraphin/Okafor/Barron

Crawford is, IMO, a better distributor than both our supposed PGs. He'll turn the ball over, but at least he takes chances and makes tough passes. Pargo is an extremely similar player and has played a combo guard roll is entire career, when Crawford needs a spell you put Price in there and let Pargo put up shots.

Could argue that Beal's bad play so far doesn't warrant keeping him in the starting lineup, but I think if you put him out there with a creative player like Crawford he'd start playing better.

Thoughts?




Well, 1st thing I do is move Webster into the starting lineup over Ariza. IMO this will help to balance the offense and help take attention off Beal. I'd still bring Crawford off the bench because that is ultimately his role on this team, especially when Wall returns. But I agree I'd like to see some Crawford and Beal out there together, at the expense of Price and Pargo.

I like Okafor to remain starting for veteran influence with the starters and to keep Seraphin from starting the game with quick fouls. I like Seraphin and Crawford off the bench for a boost, with Ariza (veteran stability and defense). That would be my top 8 right now. I'd be mixing in Singleton more as Booker's main backup at PF for some added shooting, and Vesely at 4/5 but mainly as 3rd center.
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Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#398 » by hands11 » Thu Nov 8, 2012 5:07 am

Well, three game in and still.

Price, Beal, Trevor A, Booker and Okafor though Okafor only got 11 minutes and it was an over time game.

Randy wanted to stick by his players and not through them under the bus but there is no saving this line up. Time to change.

Crawford still hurting with a sprained ankle.

Nene and Wall going to visit the doctors for an update evaluation

Team is 0-3 but been in every game although every game started with terrible offense with that starting line up.

C Singleton played big.
Ves rebounded well defensively early.
Webster can hit when his feet are set.
Beal had his first good game.

Things are coming along but they really need Wall and Nene and they really need a PG. Livingston is sitting there for them to take. Maybe after the Wall evaluation they make the move. I sure hope so.

This team can be good. They just need to get Nene out there and get a pro level PG until Wall returns.
Or get Crawford healthy and start him at PG.

The defense is looking really good so far. They have that. Now they need a PG and a vet starting post player which they have.

My hopes. Nene checks out ok and they bring him back for the Mil game and we win.
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Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#399 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Fri Nov 9, 2012 1:36 am

General thoughts regarding team and lineup after 3 games...

Encouraged how well they have played one of the better teams without 2 of their best players. On a side note, always kinda liked the Celtics, seeing the old dogs get it done, but how much more likable were they with Ray Allen?? Watching them with KG running his yap all game, Paul Pierce, and the annoying Rondo I found myself really hating this team almost as much as Miami! Man I really wanted the Wizards to pull that game out!

Gotta love the play of Seraphin, by far the brightest spot of the season so far.

Booker on the other hand looks to me like he's still not fully healthy. Hope his foot isn't more of a concern than we realize. Not any where close to his usual explosiveness and power. Chris Singleton has also been very good, really since the preseason and since moving to PF.

Martell Webster also has been a nice surprise, and picking him up is helping to make up for the disappointing play of Ariza.

I think Beal will eventually be good, and will benefit from Wall and Nene. Crawford is ideal in role of scorer off the bench. Price looks to be a good backup to Wall.

I'm seeing a pretty nice eventual lineup develop... Seraphin, Nene, Webster, Beal, Wall. A solid bench would be left with Okafor, Vesely, Booker, Singleton, Ariza, Martin, Crawford, Price, with Barron and Pargo as end of bench.

From last year... this team is much better defensively, more physical, tougher physically & mentally. It is much better in the half court and can still run with anyone, especially with Wall. We got some shooters (Beal, Webster), some low post scorers (Nene, Seraphin), bigs who can run (Vesely, Booker). I like the mix of youth and vets we have going. Like the depth.

I am in the minority, but I like what I see 3 games in.
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Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#400 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Fri Nov 9, 2012 2:31 am

Also to mention... I find it very maddening that Nene played in the Olympics and has not been able to suit up for the Wizards. Obviously he wasn't at a point health-wise where he should of been playing, and it has damaged his ability to come back.

I understand the desire to play in the Olympics, but his 1st priority should be to Washington. Now he is resting his foot and healing. He should of been doing that all season. Is that the veteran leadership he's providing, that he puts himself before this team?
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