Could '13 draft re-establish centers as focal points in NBA?

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Re: Could '13 draft re-establish centers as focal points in 

Post#21 » by Dr Positivity » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:58 pm

ManualRam wrote:
Geaux_Hawks wrote: Nerlens Noel seems like another Dwight. Maybe he can develop a better offensive skill set better than what Howard has shown and become special.

he has more in common with sam dalembert than he has with dwight.


Next John Henson? Has the athletic tools and energy to block a lot of shots but lacks great positional IQ, has some guard skills but isn't nearly as good offensively as he thinks
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Re: Could '13 draft re-establish centers as focal points in 

Post#22 » by ManualRam » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:43 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:
ManualRam wrote:
Geaux_Hawks wrote: Nerlens Noel seems like another Dwight. Maybe he can develop a better offensive skill set better than what Howard has shown and become special.

he has more in common with sam dalembert than he has with dwight.


Next John Henson? Has the athletic tools and energy to block a lot of shots but lacks great positional IQ, has some guard skills but isn't nearly as good offensively as he thinks


i never thought of henson as someone who lacked bball IQ. henson was more advanced from a defensive standpoint as far as fundamentals and not biting on fakes, but he was way behind noel physically. noel is skinny, but henson was SEVERELY underweight for a big.
im not sure about noel having guard skills either, he just thinks he has some.
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Re: Could '13 draft re-establish centers as focal points in  

Post#23 » by nolang1 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:40 am

I think even if the talent in this draft and last year's is weighted towards big men, the role of the center is irrevocably altered (barring rule changes). Look at how the Pacers-Heat series changed once Miami decided to go small and force Hibbert out on the perimeter. The prototypical 5 in today's NBA is someone who can protect the rim while still doing an acceptable job of staying in front of pick-and-roll ball handlers. That's what has made some of these guys in the 2013 such attractive prospects, despite the fact that they don't have the bulk to bang with a Bynum or Gasol.
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Re: Could '13 draft re-establish centers as focal points in  

Post#24 » by TDJacksonville » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:02 am

i agree most of the centers in this Potential class seem to me to Undersized to Play center right now(they could put on the weight but im not gonna speculate on that). the Only Center Prospect that i would take early would be adams because of the Potential(i mean you could draft him and have him play overseas to develop over the NCAA.

a guy whos interesting to me would be Joshua Moore from UCLA who has No Lack of Size and Probably could stand to lose 20 pounds and improve his Stamina and the only real knock has been conditioning.
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Re: Could '13 draft re-establish centers as focal points in  

Post#25 » by sportscrazy » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:42 am

For some reason, I think Patric Young will move up to the lottery area of the draft by the time the 2013 draft comes around as well.
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Re: Could '13 draft re-establish centers as focal points in  

Post#26 » by re49gb_2gho32fp » Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:48 am

Austin played and dominated offensively in just 17 mins, how did he look?

Looks like he got injured though.
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Re: Could '13 draft re-establish centers as focal points in  

Post#27 » by Dr Positivity » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:37 am

Len also had a huge night. Could be an extremely prominent part of this draft
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Re: Could '13 draft re-establish centers as focal points in  

Post#28 » by RockwellTV » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:13 am

Zeller had 18 and 10. Looked great, except for getting stuffed by the rim on one attempt.

Even though the team has more talent, he'll put up better numbers than last year just because the team will have Yogi Ferrell running the point, who had 10 points and 7 assists in his first game.
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Re: Could '13 draft re-establish centers as focal points in 

Post#29 » by ManualRam » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:32 am

Dr Positivity wrote:Len also had a huge night. Could be an extremely prominent part of this draft

the added weight really helped len. those kentucky bigs, especially noel were clueless how to defend him man to man and they sucked at boxing him out so he got a bunch of o-boards.
unlike last yr, len should get more touches with stoglin gone. we'll see if len will be able to build off of this performance.

i said he might have to make a meyers leonard-like leap in order to live up to to expectations and be a high draft pick because he didn't look good last yr at all. he looked physically weak, lacking confidence and skill. he's off to a great start this yr though.
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Re: Could '13 draft re-establish centers as focal points in 

Post#30 » by ManualRam » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:35 am

RockwellTV wrote:Even though the team has more talent, he'll put up better numbers than last year just because the team will have Yogi Ferrell running the point, who had 10 points and 7 assists in his first game.


yogi is a bad man. he might be tiny but he's jet quick and built like a fire hydrant. he's really skilled too. he doesn't have the greatest tools for a pg in his class, but he's the best frosh pg imo.
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Re: Could '13 draft re-establish centers as focal points in  

Post#31 » by RockwellTV » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:07 am

ManualRam wrote:yogi is a bad man. he might be tiny but he's jet quick and built like a fire hydrant. he's really skilled too. he doesn't have the greatest tools for a pg in his class, but he's the best frosh pg imo.


He wasn't like that 2 years ago. He looked like a 10 or 11 year old. Somebody probably told him if he wanted to make a name for himself at the higher levels he would have to get much stronger. He's built like a tiny LeBron now.
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Re: Could '13 draft re-establish centers as focal points in  

Post#32 » by ManualRam » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:23 am

btw, steven adams STARTED for jamie dixon and looked great. dude is jacked (he already looks a good 250 lbs) with a very solid base and he's not afraid to throw his weight around. he did basically what was expected. controlled the paint on defense, worked the glass. took advantage of the few touches he got. showed some patience when he did get his touches. showed some good mobility on hedges. even flashed some court awareness, diving for an o-board going out of bounds and in one motion dishing it to a guy in the paint for an easy bucket.

this kid's rebounding area is massive and his hands are huge so it looks like he's plucking grapefruits. what i'd like to see him do more often going forward is to just straight go for the rebound. he's block out conscious, almost to a fault, kinda like meyers leonard. sometimes you just have to read the ball off the rim and go and get it, like what rodman and barkley used to do. boxing out is the fundamental thing to do, but if a player's apex is as high and their rebounding area is as wide, then he just needs to read it and go get it off the rim.
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Re: Could '13 draft re-establish centers as focal points in 

Post#33 » by re49gb_2gho32fp » Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:12 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:Len also had a huge night. Could be an extremely prominent part of this draft


Watched the whole game for the most part, Len seemed to be playing amongst boys. The immediate comparison i would draw after one game is Jason Smith, playing hard on both ends with a solid little jumper. Didn't see much of a post-up game. Givony went to draw analogies with Valanciunas, something i pointed out a few weeks ago in a thread around here (FIBA u-18 champ., where they had comparable stats )
The Maryland guards were a bit too selfish at times and could've assisted Len for a few extra easy points, as well.
If a single game is any indicator, there is a significant class discrepancy between Len and Noel.
Noel looks to be years away from a contributing role in the NBA.

Also watched Pitsburgh roughly 10mins,
As big and dominant as Len was, Adams appeared even bigger. As ManualR perceptively noted, Adams covers a lot of ground. Didn't look that much slimmer than Drummond is quite frankly.
He ought to be featured a lot more in Pitt offense.

Withey did a nice job defensively, going by the stats.

Never thought college basketball would even remotely interest me to the point of watching, especially being overseas, but this year's center crop is too enticing and elusive.
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Re: Could '13 draft re-establish centers as focal points in 

Post#34 » by princeofpalace » Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:41 pm

Andre has about 30lbs on Adams, Id imagine Adams is around 240-245, he's got a much better NBA body than his counterparts in this draft class but he's got nothing on Drummond. As athletic specimens, it really is not close between them at all. Look at Drummond legs and then go look at Adams'. Adams also looks lighter than Meyers Leonard as well.

Again, Adams is easily the best physical specimen out of Noel/Gobert/Zeller/Austin but he's certainly not anything extradinary as far as size is concerned. I think Drummond and even Leonard put the 2013 C's to shame as far as NBA bodies are concerned.
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Re: Could '13 draft re-establish centers as focal points in 

Post#35 » by ManualRam » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:40 pm

princeofpalace wrote:Andre has about 30lbs on Adams, Id imagine Adams is around 240-245, he's got a much better NBA body than his counterparts in this draft class but he's got nothing on Drummond. As athletic specimens, it really is not close between them at all. Look at Drummond legs and then go look at Adams'. Adams also looks lighter than Meyers Leonard as well.

Again, Adams is easily the best physical specimen out of Noel/Gobert/Zeller/Austin but he's certainly not anything extradinary as far as size is concerned. I think Drummond and even Leonard put the 2013 C's to shame as far as NBA bodies are concerned.


adams doesn't have drummond's overall bulk, but he too has a strong lower body and at the same age has a more defined, stronger upperbody. the natural lower body strength is what both he and drummond have over a kid like leonard. he's working with a stronger base than leonard, who had to hit the weight room hard to get to where he's at physically. it's like adams already had a year of college weight training under his belt, but in reality has only just started lifting for real. adams just looks like a guy with natural body strength, which if you're familiar with his family history isn't a surprise.
his starting point is better than leonard's, but he's not quite drummond as a physical specimen. this is him this summer before he hit a college weight room.

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Re: Could '13 draft re-establish centers as focal points in 

Post#36 » by Geaux_Hawks » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:41 pm

re49gb_2gho32fp wrote:
Dr Positivity wrote:Len also had a huge night. Could be an extremely prominent part of this draft


Watched the whole game for the most part, Len seemed to be playing amongst boys. The immediate comparison i would draw after one game is Jason Smith, playing hard on both ends with a solid little jumper. Didn't see much of a post-up game. Givony went to draw analogies with Valanciunas, something i pointed out a few weeks ago in a thread around here (FIBA u-18 champ., where they had comparable stats )
The Maryland guards were a bit too selfish at times and could've assisted Len for a few extra easy points, as well.
If a single game is any indicator, there is a significant class discrepancy between Len and Noel.
Noel looks to be years away from a contributing role in the NBA.

Also watched Pitsburgh roughly 10mins,
As big and dominant as Len was, Adams appeared even bigger. As ManualR perceptively noted, Adams covers a lot of ground. Didn't look that much slimmer than Drummond is quite frankly.
He ought to be featured a lot more in Pitt offense.

Withey did a nice job defensively, going by the stats.

Never thought college basketball would even remotely interest me to the point of watching, especially being overseas, but this year's center crop is too enticing and elusive.


Yeah I'm quite excited as well. I really want to see Adams and Austin. I been on their wagons for about 2 years now. Adams is a top 5 pick in my mind.
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Re: Could '13 draft re-establish centers as focal points in 

Post#37 » by princeofpalace » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:15 pm

That picture of Adams, i s nowhere near the ballpark of Drummond. Its not the Adams is not "quite' Drummond, he's not close. His arms look cut, but I don't see much of a base on him. Andre playing weight at Uconn was 290, no comparison. . Adams looks like a lean 245, which is good but its certainly not even close to freak status and thats all Im saying.

Also, this is a highschool picture of Leonard. Its not great, but one of the only ones that I could find. He was already jacked, true he doesn't have great lower body strength but its clear that he's built like an ox.

Image

In any case, I didn't know anything about Adams family history, but I found this youtube vid that I thought was interesting

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noqIauGMfVU[/youtube]
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Re: Could '13 draft re-establish centers as focal points in 

Post#38 » by ManualRam » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:20 pm

princeofpalace wrote:That picture of Adams, i s nowhere near the ballpark of Drummond. Its not the Adams is not "quite' Drummond, he's not close. His arms look cut, but I don't see much of a base on him. Andre playing weight at Uconn was 290, no comparison. . Adams looks like a lean 245, which is good but its certainly not even close to freak status and thats all Im saying.

Also, this is a highschool picture of Leonard. Its not great, but one of the only ones that I could find. He was already jacked, true he doesn't have great lower body strength but its clear that he's built like an ox.

Image

In any case, I didn't know anything about Adams family history, but I found this youtube vid that I thought was interesting

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noqIauGMfVU[/youtube]


i'll just chalk the "not close" comment to homerism. he isn't "not close". adams is a very good physical specimen who will soon be getting credit for being the freak that he is. he comes from a huge family (18 kids) and all of them are big. his sister is a gold medal winning shot putter (and looks like this http://s1.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/ ... E8741AS400 ). none of his brothers were under 6'10 and none of his sisters were under 6'5. he's solid as a rock, has natural body strength and more importantly actually knows how to use it. it's not just about big a player is, but how big they play. adams plays big, setting huge, wide screens and moving bodies on the interior with purpose.

and i have to question that 290 for drummond, unless he wasn't in peak condition at uconn. he was listed at 265-270 in prep school, months before he reclassified and left for uconn. he has even lost weight to get in better condition in preparation for the NBA.

trust me. im an illini fan, so im familiar with meyers. he's always been a musclehead, but coming to illinois he had definition but not bulk. when he first stepped on campus he was around 220 as opposed to the 245-250 where adams is at right now. adams has a greater starting point, especially in the lower body. i can easily see him playing at ~265 at his peak without losing much mobility, especially since it looks like he just naturally packs on muscle.
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Re: Could '13 draft re-establish centers as focal points in 

Post#39 » by princeofpalace » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:29 pm

It sounds like you arent familiar with Drummond at all.

This a tweet from Ford at the end of May
Chad Ford
Drummond has lost 22 pounds since ending the season. He's at 268 now. He's very quick laterally for a big guy. VERY QUICK


https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/sta ... 0273861632[

He measured at 279 at the combine and that is after he reportedly lost weight.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Andre-Drummond-5772/

I agree that Adams can get to 260 but that is still 20lbs lighter than a rookie Andre Drummond, which I don't think you understand. Its not close unless you think being 20lbs lighter and considerably less athletic is the definition of "close" And thats only if Drummond doesn't get bigger, which is unlikely.

Steven Adams is no Andre Drummond and he's no freak. He's got very good size to be a C but lets not go overboard. If anyone is going to be charged with homerism, its you. Freshman Andre was significantly bigger than freshman Adams, while being significantly more athletic.
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Re: Could '13 draft re-establish centers as focal points in  

Post#40 » by EddieJonesFan » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:42 pm

Adams looks to have a strong lower base, that gives him a huge advantage in the NBA at his height.

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