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Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing

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IS IT TIME TO FIRE ERNIE GRUNFELD?

1) Yes, I believe it is time for EG to go now.
29
69%
2) Ted should let him go at the end of the season.
9
21%
3) No, Ted needs to give him more time..(DESPITE THE FACT ERNIE HAS BEEN GM SINCE 2003)
4
10%
 
Total votes: 42

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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#81 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:03 pm

Nivek wrote:Rocky -- great series of posts. Here are some thoughts on a few of the candidates I'm familiar with:

  • Mike Zarren -- smart as hell numbers guy in Boston; one of the organizers for the Sloan stat conference
  • Tom Penn -- another numbers guy; really understands the salary cap
  • Mark Warkentein -- hired Dean Oliver as his director of quantitative analysis, but then traded Billups for Iverson
  • John Nash -- astonishing that Nash would be in consideration for any job considering how he basically ran three teams into the ground (Washington, Philadelphia, Portland); Wizards would actually be downgrading at GM if they replaced Grunfeld with Nash
  • David Morway -- not someone who'll blow folks away with his intellect or insight; I'd rather steal Kevin Pritchard from the Pacers
  • Troy Weaver -- really smart, has learned from Presti, very comfortable with numbers and statistical analysis

A couple names I'd add to the list based on my own conversations and dealings with them: Dean Oliver and Mitchell Butler. Dean, of course, is the Bill James of basketball. Smart as hell. Knows the game as a player. Actually worked as an old-fashioned sit-in-the-stands-and-take-notes scout.

Most Wiz fans know Butler as a player. I forget his title when they hired him, but his role was kind of a hybrid coaching/front office position. Smart and charismatic -- a superb communicator. Butler was also open to (and appreciative of) statistical analysis.

My personal top choices would be Weaver, Zarren or Oliver.


Kevin, I feel strongly that Weaver is the OBVIOUS choice.

If I could write the script to how this plays out it would be:

1. Ernie steps down of his own volition. Call it medical issues or he would like to pursue other matters. No need to fire a man after Ted just re-upped him. It was the wrong move, but Ernie and Ted have to be pretty tight. That was the problem in the first place IMO. They can stay buds, but dude needs to relinquish the job gracefully, IMO.

2. Weaver is currently in best position to take over for Presti, should the James Harden trade force him out. OKC fans are hot about that deal, but I think owner Clay Bennett is probably still in his corner. I think the Wizards need to move immediately to get Weaver, but it would be unrealistic to expect him to bolt now. I think the move would be to leak interest in hiring Troy Weaver the day the season ends for OKC. But in the meantime, why not have an acting/interim GM? Suggest Bob Ferry.

3. I want Weaver so badly, that I haven't considered Zarren or Oliver.

4. I want Dave Joerger to be the next coach, and I think having Bob Ferry as GM just long enough to hire that next coach is the way I would proceed.

This is really an EASY fix. Washington has enough to compete or to trade away and be elite in 24-36 months IMO. You can say that about virtually any team. Just look at Charlotte.

--Weaver is ideal to be the next GM.
--Joerger is beyond ideal to be the next coach.

Said this months back, BTW.

PS -- JOHN NASH -- Nivek, one thing I can say is the man would return correspondence. Back in the days well before Al Gore gave us email, I wrote a letter to Nash (during the LaPhonso Ellis/Tom Gugliotta draft year). Nash hand wrote and returned the letter. I can't get too down on the man. Turns out Googs was a good pick. (I wanted Ellis and mentioned liking Googs among others).
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#82 » by Spence » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:06 pm

I think at this point it is pretty clear Leonsis and Grunfeld are in some sort of murder-suicide pact.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#83 » by queridiculo » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:14 pm

Spence wrote:I think at this point it is pretty clear Leonsis and Grunfeld are in some sort of murder-suicide pact.


That's the only logical conclusion isn't it?

Let's consider that Washington was in a near perfect situation for a complete reboot. Minimum salary commitments, a couple of legit NBA talents and a lottery pick to boot.

Given Grunfeld's track record with Washington, and his previous body of work, how could anybody justify to let the incumbent be in charge with the overhaul?

What in God's name did Leonsis see from this team that made him hopeful that Grunfeld would do anything but find a way to bury this franchise yet again?

The dead money from the Blatche's amnesty and the firing of Saunders alone should have been enough to get Grunfeld fired, but somehow he ends up with an extension?

It blows the mind really.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#84 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:29 pm

hermitkid wrote:
Spence wrote:I think at this point it is pretty clear Leonsis and Grunfeld are in some sort of murder-suicide pact.


That's the only logical conclusion isn't it?

Let's consider that Washington was in a near perfect situation for a complete reboot. Minimum salary commitments, a couple of legit NBA talents and a lottery pick to boot.

Given Grunfeld's track record with Washington, and his previous body of work, how could anybody justify to let the incumbent be in charge with the overhaul?

What in God's name did Leonsis see from this team that made him hopeful that Grunfeld would do anything but find a way to bury this franchise yet again?

The dead money from the Blatche's amnesty and the firing of Saunders alone should have been enough to get Grunfeld fired, but somehow he ends up with an extension?

It blows the mind really.


I've posted this before. They are Romanian-American and Greek American, both living the American dream. They're both around the same age. Ted is from Brooklyn. Ernie's family immigrated to Forrest Hills, Queens. They are New Yorkers. Ernie was a star HS player from not far away. They have MUCH in common and probably a great deal of mutual respect.

From a business standpoint, Ernie was loyal to the Pollins. When Arenas messed up Ernie and Ted were on the same page, very apparently, as to how to proceed. Before Ted resigned Grunfeld, Arenas has been traded for a very solid dude, Rashard Lewis. One year came off the deal to boot. That transaction saved money and gave Leonsis reason to have all faith in Ernie. When that went down (the money part) I felt like Ernie saved his job with this owner.

They have a LOT in common. Ernie follows orders and is a loyal guy IMO. I can see why Ted re-signed him.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#85 » by sashae » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:50 pm

FWIW, Grunfeld was fired as the Knicks GM in the '98-99 season, halfway through the year, so it's not unprecedented. I'd personally like to see Grunfeld fired earlier rather than later, to give the new GM proper time to evaluate the team as a whole. Yes, you can watch film and check stats in the offseason, but I do still believe in the eye test as well -- and just being around the team/locker room as a whole. I'd love to have momentum going into next year (and not momentum of the 'bag-of-flaming-feces-thrown-off-a-bridge' type.)
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#86 » by Higga » Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:54 pm

I don't know who the top candidates are, I just want a young hungry up and comer who is a top lieutenant on a winning organization(by that standard, Weaver would be a perfect). I am so sick of old retreads who are coming off failure.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#87 » by closg00 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:00 pm

I just had a horrible thought. What if Ernie is fired and Ed Tapscott is "promoted" internally to the GM position?
That would be a Ted move, a move to not rock the boat too-much. *shudders*
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#88 » by rockymac52 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:52 pm

Troy Weaver definitely has to be up on our list (I hope), if not the clear frontrunner. There's no denying that the Spurs and Thunder have been successfully breeding front office executives left and right in the past few years. So it should come as no surprise that Presti's right hand man is widely sought-after. But from what I've read about Weaver, he seems like a perfect fit.

He's had experience on a championship-caliber team. He's young, and he seems highly motivated to succeed at the highest level. What I was surprised to learn about Weaver, was that he has some serious ties to the DC area. He played basketball at and graduated from Prince George's Community College. He co-founded and coached a DC AAU team, the DC Assault. As an assistant coach at Syracuse, he played a large role in recruiting Carmelo Anthony, thanks to his DMV connection. From what I've gathered, he currently lives in Upper Marlboro. I haven't found any information about this, but I think it's safe to assume that he grew up in the DC area as well.

He's been interviewed for several recent GM openings, and was reportedly the Jazz's #1 choice for GM this summer, but he turned down the job, even though he began his NBA career with the Jazz and their former GM and now the man who runs the show and hires the GM, Kevin O'Connor. Weaver has made it very clear that his goal is to one day be a GM, so it's a little surprising that he would turn down that job. It makes you think that he's waiting for the perfect opportunity to come along. Are the Washington Wizards that perfect opportunity that he's waiting for? He very well could have grown up a Bullets fan. He clearly has love for the District of Columbia still. I think he may have his sights set on this job, and I hope we give it to him!
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#89 » by rockymac52 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:56 pm

I also really like the idea of Dean Oliver. I don't think I've ever heard his name mentioned as a GM candidate before, but obviously he has some experience in the front office, and it goes without saying that he's one of the more progressive and forward-thinking basketball minds in the game today. If you haven't read his book, Basketball On Paper, you seriously need to. After I read it for the first time I realized that everything that I thought I knew about the NBA was grossly inaccurate.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#90 » by hands11 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:45 pm

Lets see. He signed a two year contract around May this year, right.

So that puts the count down at around 18 mouths.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#91 » by Dat2U » Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:07 am

hands11 wrote:Let see. He signed a two year contract around May this year, right.

So that puts the count down at around 18 mouths.


I don't think I can be that patient. But I also don't think Ernie has 18 months to turn this around.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#92 » by AFM » Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:19 am

That's 18 months until Ted gives him another extension.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#93 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:52 am

I just want to say before I take a sabbatical from posting I apologize to anyone I have offended.

I apologize for name calling, insulting the intelligence of, or assuming I know what goes on behind closed doors with Ted Leonsis and Ernie Grunfeld.

I don't take back anything I said, believing to be the truth, no matter how painful. However, I am reminded that compassion and grace serves everyone well. I don't need to gossip or put down people, but rather I need to promote what I think are good/better ideas.
Bye bye Beal.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#94 » by montestewart » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:59 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I just want to say before I take a sabbatical from posting I apologize to anyone I have offended.

I apologize for name calling, insulting the intelligence of, or assuming I know what goes on behind closed doors with Ted Leonsis and Ernie Grunfeld.

I don't take back anything I said, believing to be the truth, no matter how painful. However, I am reminded that compassion and grace serves everyone well. I don't need to gossip or put down people, but rather I need to promote what I think are good/better ideas.

Your semi-annual sabbatical? I don't recall you saying anything that harsh, but whatever. Go in peace, my son.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#95 » by omegatronic3 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:46 am

EG must go now....no question about it...I cant think of any argument for him not to be fired. This franchise cant afford to waste another draft on his horrible picks.

Even with a full healthy roster this team is going nowhere.

The best he ever did was make us a skin of our teeth 8th seed.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#96 » by BigA » Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:18 pm

Good discussion of the options and candidates. Based on Ted's public statements (which admittedly do leave ample wiggle room) I don't think there's any way Ernie lasts past this year if there isn't significant progress in W-L.

If Wall and Nene come back and the team continues to struggle, I expect Ernie to be let go mid-season, even if they have to designate an interim GM.

I hope Ted has been educating himself about the managerial talent around the league. This will be an important hire. Just googling Troy Weaver it appears that he has turned down some GM positions. Someone like him would need to be courted, but that's something Leonsis should be good at. He sold Michael Jordan on coming here, after all.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#97 » by hands11 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:34 pm

Dat2U wrote:
hands11 wrote:Let see. He signed a two year contract around May this year, right.

So that puts the count down at around 18 mouths.


I don't think I can be that patient. But I also don't think Ernie has 18 months to turn this around.


Its really not a matter of how patient you are, its a matter of how patient Ted is.
He made a decision to extend him for two years. Not one year. Two years.
That said, I doubt he has even started to second guess that decision to cut that contract short.
By the vary nature of the length of the contract, he has set that date to re-evaluate what to do with EG
until about somewhere near the trade deadline next season.

What he is likely doing right now is watching individual players that are new like Beal, Trevor A, Okafor, Barron, Webster, Price and Pargo and evaluating what is the next piece they can add while they wait for their two best players to return so the pieces they have can continue to develop.

One sign that they are indeed doing that is the Livingston signing just 7 games into the season. Livingston in, Pargo out. Now he will evaluate how much adding a 6-7 27 year old vet PG helps a team that desperately needs a steady PG until Wall returns and who needed a solid back up going into the season anyway. The Livingston move was one I was hoping they would make and believed it was on the table for them even though they went into the season with Price and Pargo. I'm glad to see what I believed actually was what they were considering.

He is also evaluating how Randy is doing as head coach. But again, unless Randy loses the team, he is here for two years. Ted has made these two decisions and he is moving forward.

Ted knew what all of us know. The team was going to have a huge uphill fight to start the year with 7 new players, a new coach and no Wall or Nene. Not having those two players to start the year is why many of us projected low 30's in wins for the season instead of low to mid 40s. We know the start of this year was going to be really tough to get a win.

I'm sure he sees the reality of that situation and is looking forward to seeing what the team looks like once Wall and Nene return. For now, I'm sure he is excited to see how much adding Livingston can help. Livingston may not be an All Star, but he is a piece the team desperately needed since they are mostly a group of players that can't create their own shots given youth and injuries.

Once they get their core piece back out there, I'm sure they will be working to back channels to see what trades might be available come the trade deadline. Lots of work to do.

I would be shocked if Ted even spent 2 minutes second guessing the decision he made about the two year contract for EG at this stage of the game. He did that evaluation before the contracts and he will decide again what he wants to do sometime around the trade dead line next season.

So if you counting down, you most likely have about 14 months of counting to do.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#98 » by FAH1223 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:51 pm

hands, the man has had 10 years.. and Ted will feel the pressure of the fans very soon especially when Wall/Nene come back and this team still has a horribly win-loss record.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#99 » by montestewart » Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:35 pm

Perhaps Leonsis the businessman has market research showing a loyal hardcore following of paying Wizards fans who will continue to pay no matter what product is offered, their dollars providing a safety net against bad decision making. The fans. The cattle. The peons. We don't belong to the same clubs as he does.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#100 » by barelyawake » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:21 am

Ted: We need to tank to get franchise players to build a champion for the next decade.
Ernie: I'll tank, but you need to give me job assurance because I don't want to be held accountable for the awful record you want.
Fans: This GM sucks because he's losing and not signing second round pick roll players that would help us win three more games than we have won.

All these meaningless players you drool over DO NOT MATTER. The NBA is a star driven league. Learn it. Accept it. Without a top ten player, you OUGHT to be tanking. Ernie isn't good, or great, but he is doing his job.

Wall
Beal
Shabazz
Nene
Seraphin

Is actually a very good team...

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