WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith

[pootpoot]

Let's just keep Pau because he's a great player

[Jajwanda]

That's great so let's not maximize our assets?

[Michael Lucky]

once again we aren't Maximizing anything by trading him for Josh in terms of us having a shot at winning.

[dockingsched]

^^^he's not advocating for smith, if you read his earlier post on this page he questions whether pau OR smith are the answer and suggests trading for an upgrade at a different spot and acquiring a pf that isn't a star but fills the role he'd be asked to perform.

[Jajwanda]

Exactly. You don't pay a guy like Gasol to sit there and shoot open mid-range 18 footers, hustle, and play pick and roll D. You find a better use for your resource allocation. Pau's most useful minutes are more or less the 8-10 minutes he plays with Jordan Hill off the bench. Even then he's still a pick and pop player in this offense.

If you were to acquire an Igoudala you would get someone that fits like a glove and can affect the game every minute with his top of the line defense, hustle in transition, play making etc...

[GAME TIME]

Have to look at the match ups with the title contending team.

Do the Lakers match up better or worst vs


MIami
OKC
Clippers
Spurs
Memphis

with Josh Smith instead of Gasol

[DEEP3CL]

I agree with a lot of what Jawanda put out there. My thing is looking long term and how the scheme would fit later. As for the now J is on the money on how it works on the court, but if the plan is for this vaunted 2014 reconstruction we're anticipating Josh would a max deal that obliterates that plan. I hate to even think like it, but let's go with the asinine notion that the Lakers pursue Lebron. He's going to finally take his max on top of Howards deal and you bring Josh, that's 75-85% of you cap and suddendly the Lakers are strapped to add credible players that can play critical roles.

[Jajwanda]

Have to look at the match ups with the title contending team.

Do the Lakers match up better or worst vs


MIami
OKC
Clippers
Spurs
Memphis

with Josh Smith instead of Gasol

With Miami you want a quicker PF that can handle rotations and put a strange hold on the pick and roll. With OKC you want the same thing as since Gasol doesn't spread out Ibaka much I'd say yes Smith is a better fit. Against the Clippers Smith would basically cut off Griffin's P and R game perfectly. Against San Antonio I like Pau's passing but again Smith plays his role a bit better than Pau because of how quickly he can rotate against shooters. Memphis is the one team where I may want Pau's size against Randolph. That length could be useful. Then again Randolph would struggle mightily defending Smith off the dribble.

All in all yes Josh Smith would be an overall better player than Pau even with that weaker mid-range game. His fit with Howard on that mid-range is a question mark. L.A. has to start using their Jamison-Howard FC.

[Father Time]

At this point I wonder if it's worth trading Pau just because his defense has gotten so bad.

[Compton310]

either we trade for him now which i hope so, are get him in the off season when he is a free agent.. this is why teams stay at the bottom cuz there stupid.. he's walking at the end of the year why not get something for him in return.. we couldve had beasly but instead of trading him to us they let him walk for nothing smh.. i dont feel sorry for middle market teams cuz 9 times outta 10 they screw themselves

[iamworthy]

If Gasol can bring it every night Im all for keeping him on this team. He's talented enough to mask the fact that he's playing of position if he brings it. Sometimes his boxscore reads better than he actually played. Sometimes watching the games you forget he's on the court. When a player is making 19 million dollars that should not happen. If we do trade Pau he will instantly become the second best center in the league. If just so happens that we have the best...which is why he will get no minutes at the center position. Unlike when we had Bynum, Bynum minutes were always limited leaving a good chunk of time for Gasol to get some center minutes. Now, with D12 playing 40-41 minutes there are none. Gasol is a very very valuable trade piece and if Mitch can improve this team by trading him then so be it.

[Slartibartfast]

Atlanta wouldn't want Pau at this stage of his career - there'd have to be third team with expirings/prospects/picks that would prefer Pau to obtaining Smiith themselves.

[Jajwanda]

There's a tremendous amount of assumptions being made here. First of all the FAs of 2014 play on good teams. Rudy Gay may or may not be a Laker. So-and-so may or not be a Laker in this or that year. The Lakers are looking at that this in the long-term. If you've got Josh Smith at least you guarantee you have something in 2014. I know it's nice to assume that the Lakers get LeBron but right now it's about Dwight. If you can keep Dwight and keep Smith you have something substantial.

[Stebo_SSK]

either we trade for him now which i hope so, are get him in the off season when he is a free agent.. this is why teams stay at the bottom cuz there stupid.. he's walking at the end of the year why not get something for him in return.. we couldve had beasly but instead of trading him to us they let him walk for nothing smh.. i dont feel sorry for middle market teams cuz 9 times outta 10 they screw themselves

You act as if Beasley was garnering a bunch in a trade? You know LA almost got dude for Fisher and a late 1st rounder right? Have you seen the way he has played in PHX? He is shooting sub 40%. We got off better by going after Hill.

Smith is probably only better than Gasol in pick and roll D. Other than that Gasol is superior to Smith in every category even as the 3rd option on the Lakers. Another thing guys are overlooking is the fact Gasol can play the Center position and spell Howard. This means the offense doesnt have to take a nosedive and one can play a lot with the reserves WHICH WE NEED. LA could literally go the whole game and play Gasol and Howard at separate times and still be competitive if not more. With Smith this doesnt happen.

Another thing guys overlook is Pau is actually a pretty good POST defender. Smith is avg. We have the best of both worlds with both with Howard and Pau. Regardless of what youtube shows you Smith isnt some defensive anchor. He is a guy that gets blocks due to his athleticism. He is far from a gamechanger. Go watch the games.

[Jajwanda]

Pick and roll D, transition, shot-blocking, rotations, cutting to the basket, ability one-on-one from the high post.

Pau is gone in two years. Don't forget that. This franchise doesn't want to go into 2014 without at least some kind of help for Dwight.

[Sedale Threatt]

That's a misleading stat. I want to see the comparison between Gasol-Smith off of the pick and pop and the spot-up. Smith takes a tremendous amount more mid-range shots based off of ISOs and plays run for him than Gasol does. If I asked Kobe to sit there all day and take open mid-ranges his percentage would be very high as well. It's low because he's defended.

Gasol shot 42.8 percent on 173 spot-ups last season compared to 36 percent on 353 for Josh Smith, per Synergy Sports. They do not chart pick/pops.

[Emperor_Earth]

I've long been in favor of Josh Smith for two reasons, although I have appreciated Pau far more than the average NBA junkie:

1) Defense
2) Athleticism/Pace

1) Pick n Roll, weak side rotations
With a frontcourt rotation of D12/Smith/Hill/MWP/Ebanks, all of a sudden you have 5 players who are hustle Defensive players. Being pick and rolled to death? That ends immediately because you don't have to tell guards to defend differently if Pau is guarding the roll man or D12/Hill is.

Weakside rotations? Both Josh and D12 are very good weakside shot blockers. Hill is more of a contest/position defensive player which works because of his foot speed/hustle.

We even have the flexibility to throw in Antawn/Kobe to help with spacing as necessary.

2) Athleticism/Pace
We have Nash. I'd rather have Josh Smith. Partially to help on PNR D, but also to get out in the open court.

We're starting to see D12 do it now that he's getting healthier. But I want to see our bigs get great post position off fast breaks or trailing dunks. Pau is decent with the latter. Josh Smith would be better at both.

What we lose: Passing/Shooting

The first is not much of a concern given our transition to a Nash-centric offense and the emergence of Morris and presence of Duhon.

The latter is fairly concerning and compels readers to reveal whether they prefer offensive spacing or defensive execution. I prefer the latter and believe Smith's athleticism/steals will lead to enough fast break/easy points to almost offset offensive decrease while increasing Defensive ability way more than enough to compensate.

But to each his/her own.

[Jajwanda]

That's not that bad. Six percent on spot-ups? I'll take that difference.

I'll tell you what I'm going back and watching the Suns offense with Nash in 06. What you'll notice about the pick and roll is that all not all pick and rolls are the same. If the guard is a shooter like Nash, the odds are he's not going to go into the paint every time as a guy like Sessions would. Boris Diaw on a number of players simply drives and passes to the other cutter. The spacing isn't bad. It's not ideal sure since neither Diaw nor Smith have great jumpers but I'll tell you what when Josh Smith has the ball off of the pick and roll, he's so skilled in his driving ability that---->

You really can't say I'm going to just give him the jumper. You're not squared up against him. You're going to get blown past. Diaw is doing it every time and Amare is waiting.

[GAME TIME]

Gasol vs Smitch check game, who wins

Shooting - Gasol
Passing - Gasol
Rebounding - Gasol
Toughness - Smith
Higher IQ- Gasol
man defense(perimeter)- Smith
Post defense- Gasol
team defense- Smith
Pnr defense- Smith
Pnr offense- Smith
Pick and Pop O - Gasol
Post offense - Gasol
dribble drive offense- Smith
spacing in offense Smith
shot blocker- Smith
Hustle - Smith
work ethic - ?
Speed (pace of game)- Smith
Better slasher - Smith


Feel free to add more, that I missed.

[rand0m]

Even though Pau has been struggling as of late, he his still better on offense than Smith (landslide on bball IQ). But other than post defense, I like Smith a lot more. The way we match up to other contenders, I could see why some people are arguing for him. Like Jawanda stated: Pick and roll D, transition, shot-blocking, rotations, cutting to the basket, ability one-on-one from the high post. Pau's decline in these areas makes it hard to believe that the defense will get to where it needs to be for legit contention. I am not opposed to Pau playing a chunk of minutes as backup C though. He definitely gives us more all around flexibility that Smith wouldn't.