ImageImageImageImageImage

Can David Cooper be that 1B/DH that we're looking for

Moderator: JaysRule15

flatjacket1
Analyst
Posts: 3,237
And1: 66
Joined: Oct 27, 2009

Re: Can David Cooper be that 1B/DH that we're looking for 

Post#81 » by flatjacket1 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:49 am

I'm not arguing Cooper is ideal, but rather fits this model. We need a bat for 6th spot and below. I see no problem with giving Cooper that spot. I believe he can be worth about 1-2 fWAR as a full season DH, as last year without his fielding he was almost on pace for a 1 fWAR season as DH/1B.

25 games in the field made him lose 3.1 runs... also his baserunning won't be as bad this time around, as he made some stupid decisions which he never made in AAA. I think he could do more for us at DH this year than Lind did in his last 2.
Avp115 wrote:Bautista>>Mike Trout and Kendrick
User avatar
Hendrix
RealGM
Posts: 17,030
And1: 3,662
Joined: May 30, 2007
Location: London, Ontario

Re: Can David Cooper be that 1B/DH that we're looking for 

Post#82 » by Hendrix » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:50 am

Ty for typing that out Randle. I really did not feel like putting the time into typing out a long response to so many bad and irrelevant points.
oak2455 wrote:Do understand English???
flatjacket1
Analyst
Posts: 3,237
And1: 66
Joined: Oct 27, 2009

Re: Can David Cooper be that 1B/DH that we're looking for 

Post#83 » by flatjacket1 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:53 am

Hendrix wrote:Ty for typing that out Randle. I really did not feel like putting the time into typing out a long response to so many bad and irrelevant points.


Bashing other peoples opinions, that's cool. Why don't we ban everybody who goes against conventional perceived logic so everybody just has a circle jerk all day every day.

Argue the point or don't, I really don't care. Don't call it irrelevant because you obviously care somewhat.
Avp115 wrote:Bautista>>Mike Trout and Kendrick
User avatar
Hendrix
RealGM
Posts: 17,030
And1: 3,662
Joined: May 30, 2007
Location: London, Ontario

Re: Can David Cooper be that 1B/DH that we're looking for 

Post#84 » by Hendrix » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:21 am

flatjacket1 wrote:
Hendrix wrote:Ty for typing that out Randle. I really did not feel like putting the time into typing out a long response to so many bad and irrelevant points.


Bashing other peoples opinions, that's cool. Why don't we ban everybody who goes against conventional perceived logic so everybody just has a circle jerk all day every day.

Argue the point or don't, I really don't care. Don't call it irrelevant because you obviously care somewhat.

Umm... I was talking about his response to 'lateral quicks'. And, 'lateral quicks' response was a response to me that contanined a while bunch of points that were irrelevant to the topic at hand, and had nothing to do with anything I've said in this thread. I've already spent a ton of time 'arguing points' in this thread.

And, randomly bringing up your projections of Coopers HR total vs. Melky's, or talking about Fielding when we're discussing DH, are irrelevant points.
oak2455 wrote:Do understand English???
User avatar
Lateral Quicks
RealGM
Posts: 20,290
And1: 16,359
Joined: Dec 05, 2002
   

Re: Can David Cooper be that 1B/DH that we're looking for 

Post#85 » by Lateral Quicks » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:22 am

Hendrix wrote:Ty for typing that out Randle. I really did not feel like putting the time into typing out a long response to so many bad and irrelevant points.


Great argument Hendrix. Thank you for coming down from your high horse to participate. No doubt you have a front office job what with your otherwordly baseball acumen.

Wow... these Raptor board posters...
Nick Nurse recounting his first meeting with Kawhi:
“We could have gone forever. (Raptors management) kept knocking on the door and I was like, ‘A couple more minutes.’ Because we were really into it."
User avatar
Hendrix
RealGM
Posts: 17,030
And1: 3,662
Joined: May 30, 2007
Location: London, Ontario

Re: Can David Cooper be that 1B/DH that we're looking for 

Post#86 » by Hendrix » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:40 am

Lateral Quicks wrote:Great argument Hendrix. Thank you for coming down from your high horse to participate. No doubt you have a front office job what with your otherwordly baseball acumen.

Wow... these Raptor board posters...


I've made quite few posts in this thread, and about 90% of your response to my post had nothing to do with anything I've said in this thread. You addressed a bunch of points, that I never made, like his fielding while playing DH. My argument against him had very little to do with what you posted. If you would like to respond to one of my arguments, then I have no problem rebutting. But, I have no interest in countering against things I've never said or irrelevant projections of HR totals.
oak2455 wrote:Do understand English???
User avatar
Mattd97
Head Coach
Posts: 6,311
And1: 2,489
Joined: Mar 29, 2007
Location: Toronto

Re: Can David Cooper be that 1B/DH that we're looking for 

Post#87 » by Mattd97 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:44 am

Lateral Quicks wrote:
Hendrix wrote:Ty for typing that out Randle. I really did not feel like putting the time into typing out a long response to so many bad and irrelevant points.


Great argument Hendrix. Thank you for coming down from your high horse to participate. No doubt you have a front office job what with your otherwordly baseball acumen.

Wow... these Raptor board posters...


something tells me, considering you joined in 02, that you were also one of "these raptor board posters"
vergogna wrote:- game starts at 3.50
- nice passing at 4.15
- BARGS REBOUND at 4.47
- BARGS REBOUND (almost) at 6.23
User avatar
Garmfay
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,781
And1: 506
Joined: Apr 02, 2007
Location: LeBronto
     

Re: Can David Cooper be that 1B/DH that we're looking for 

Post#88 » by Garmfay » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:35 am

The hate Cooper gets is ridiculous. Just because he has no chin doesn't mean he is a complete scrub. I'm not saying he is a great solution at DH but he gets paid 400k vs Lind's 5 Mill for similar production OPS of 700+. I'd gladly take him over Lind anyday of the week. A guy in the bottom of the lineup who won't be a rally killer (Cough Lind) making 400k could be useful. I just want to get rid of Lind at this point. The guy had 2 and a half years of sucking with no work ethic (has said to never workout)
Image
Credit to Turbo_Zone
"The Lion does not concern himself with the opinion of the sheep"
Mad-Eye Moody
Sophomore
Posts: 144
And1: 5
Joined: Sep 21, 2012

Re: Can David Cooper be that 1B/DH that we're looking for 

Post#89 » by Mad-Eye Moody » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:48 am

I don't know why so much time is invested in arguing about David **** Cooper.

You don't think that after all these moves and all this money that Rogers has taken on, they won't pony up 5 million (at most) for a platoon partner for Lind? Lind/Gomes is a MUCH better option than Cooper full time.
Modern_epic
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,458
And1: 4
Joined: Jul 03, 2003

Re: Can David Cooper be that 1B/DH that we're looking for 

Post#90 » by Modern_epic » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:52 am

Garmfay wrote:The hate Cooper gets is ridiculous. Just because he has no chin doesn't mean he is a complete scrub. I'm not saying he is a great solution at DH but he gets paid 400k vs Lind's 5 Mill for similar production OPS of 700+. I'd gladly take him over Lind anyday of the week. A guy in the bottom of the lineup who won't be a rally killer (Cough Lind) making 400k could be useful. I just want to get rid of Lind at this point. The guy had 2 and a half years of sucking with no work ethic (has said to never workout)


Okay, seriously, why do Cooper's supporters keep pointing out that he is cheaper than Lind? It's a really silly point, because the Jays are paying Lind either way.

And don't tell me you think someone will trade for Lind without the Jays eating that money. If he is really worse than David Cooper, why would someone want him exactly? If someone wanted him for free he would be gone by now.

The only potential savings actually available here would be from keeping Cooper down in AAA, because then you only pay him the minor league rate.
User avatar
Garmfay
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,781
And1: 506
Joined: Apr 02, 2007
Location: LeBronto
     

Re: Can David Cooper be that 1B/DH that we're looking for 

Post#91 » by Garmfay » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:05 am

Modern_epic wrote:
Garmfay wrote:The hate Cooper gets is ridiculous. Just because he has no chin doesn't mean he is a complete scrub. I'm not saying he is a great solution at DH but he gets paid 400k vs Lind's 5 Mill for similar production OPS of 700+. I'd gladly take him over Lind anyday of the week. A guy in the bottom of the lineup who won't be a rally killer (Cough Lind) making 400k could be useful. I just want to get rid of Lind at this point. The guy had 2 and a half years of sucking with no work ethic (has said to never workout)


Okay, seriously, why do Cooper's supporters keep pointing out that he is cheaper than Lind? It's a really silly point, because the Jays are paying Lind either way.

And don't tell me you think someone will trade for Lind without the Jays eating that money. If he is really worse than David Cooper, why would someone want him exactly? If someone wanted him for free he would be gone by now.

The only potential savings actually available here would be from keeping Cooper down in AAA, because then you only pay him the minor league rate.

Thats the **** point. At some point you just have to cut bait with the guy. You don't keep him in because he gets paid. Cooper is better for the team than Lind.
Image
Credit to Turbo_Zone
"The Lion does not concern himself with the opinion of the sheep"
Randle McMurphy
RealGM
Posts: 33,522
And1: 19,065
Joined: Dec 07, 2009

Re: Can David Cooper be that 1B/DH that we're looking for 

Post#92 » by Randle McMurphy » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:19 am

Modern_epic wrote:
Garmfay wrote:The hate Cooper gets is ridiculous. Just because he has no chin doesn't mean he is a complete scrub. I'm not saying he is a great solution at DH but he gets paid 400k vs Lind's 5 Mill for similar production OPS of 700+. I'd gladly take him over Lind anyday of the week. A guy in the bottom of the lineup who won't be a rally killer (Cough Lind) making 400k could be useful. I just want to get rid of Lind at this point. The guy had 2 and a half years of sucking with no work ethic (has said to never workout)


Okay, seriously, why do Cooper's supporters keep pointing out that he is cheaper than Lind? It's a really silly point, because the Jays are paying Lind either way.

And don't tell me you think someone will trade for Lind without the Jays eating that money. If he is really worse than David Cooper, why would someone want him exactly? If someone wanted him for free he would be gone by now.

The only potential savings actually available here would be from keeping Cooper down in AAA, because then you only pay him the minor league rate.

Because painting this as an either/or dilemma between these two poor options (which it absolutely isn't) is the only way this thread's existence can actually be justified.
One flew east, one flew west, one flew over the cuckoo’s nest.
Mad-Eye Moody
Sophomore
Posts: 144
And1: 5
Joined: Sep 21, 2012

Re: Can David Cooper be that 1B/DH that we're looking for 

Post#93 » by Mad-Eye Moody » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:24 am

We add Jose Reyes, Mark Buehrle, Josh Johnson, and Melky Cabrera...yet here we are discussing Adam Lind vs. David Cooper.
User avatar
Kapono
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,292
And1: 299
Joined: Apr 25, 2008
       

Re: Can David Cooper be that 1B/DH that we're looking for 

Post#94 » by Kapono » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:25 am

I'd like to sign Berkman. He would be the perfect DH for us. A switch hitter with power and who can take walks. He can also give you a good amount of games at LF/RF and 1B.
Alex Anthopoulos - styling on Major League Baseball since 2009
User avatar
MikeM
General Manager
Posts: 9,026
And1: 9,878
Joined: Aug 10, 2006

Re: Can David Cooper be that 1B/DH that we're looking for 

Post#95 » by MikeM » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:57 am

Damn, just remembered both Lind and Hill turned to complete **** after we hired Murphy. Maybe Lind can bounce back like Hill did. Just makes no sense how a guy can drop off that far.
Waylon Mercy
Banned User
Posts: 12,346
And1: 6,644
Joined: Sep 08, 2010

Re: Can David Cooper be that 1B/DH that we're looking for 

Post#96 » by Waylon Mercy » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:51 pm

Garmfay wrote:
Modern_epic wrote:
Garmfay wrote:The hate Cooper gets is ridiculous. Just because he has no chin doesn't mean he is a complete scrub. I'm not saying he is a great solution at DH but he gets paid 400k vs Lind's 5 Mill for similar production OPS of 700+. I'd gladly take him over Lind anyday of the week. A guy in the bottom of the lineup who won't be a rally killer (Cough Lind) making 400k could be useful. I just want to get rid of Lind at this point. The guy had 2 and a half years of sucking with no work ethic (has said to never workout)


Okay, seriously, why do Cooper's supporters keep pointing out that he is cheaper than Lind? It's a really silly point, because the Jays are paying Lind either way.

And don't tell me you think someone will trade for Lind without the Jays eating that money. If he is really worse than David Cooper, why would someone want him exactly? If someone wanted him for free he would be gone by now.

The only potential savings actually available here would be from keeping Cooper down in AAA, because then you only pay him the minor league rate.

Thats the **** point. At some point you just have to cut bait with the guy. You don't keep him in because he gets paid. Cooper is better for the team than Lind.


Image
The_Hater
GHOAT (Greatest Hater Of All Time)
Posts: 85,319
And1: 40,047
Joined: May 23, 2001
     

Re: Can David Cooper be that 1B/DH that we're looking for 

Post#97 » by The_Hater » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:16 pm

Garmfay wrote:Thats the **** point. At some point you just have to cut bait with the guy. You don't keep him in because he gets paid. Cooper is better for the team than Lind.



Debateable. 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other. Some people prefer Lind because he's mashed at the MLB level, others people prefer Cooper because he mashed in AAA and is more of an unknown right now. (Closer to the point, because he's not Adam Lind).

At the end of the day, they're pretty much the same player. Both would likely put up a 750-800 ops against RHP in a strict platoon. Both of them have almost zero defensive value. Both of them should stay far away from any LHP and both would be considered substandard DH's for any club, not just one that wants to contend.

Hopefully we add somebody else and this debate becomes a moot point in the coming months.
AthensBucks wrote:Lowry is done.
Nurse is below average at best.
Masai is overrated.
I dont get how so many people believe in the raptors,they have zero to chance to win it all.


April 14th, 2019.
User avatar
Gibby
Rookie
Posts: 1,142
And1: 361
Joined: Jun 06, 2012

Re: Can David Cooper be that 1B/DH that we're looking for 

Post#98 » by Gibby » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:31 pm

I didn't read this whole thread, so I'm not sure what the general consesus on Coop is, but here's what I think.

As far as picking from Coop vs Lind, I'd rather not. Lind has been hot garbage as of the late few years, and although he showed glimpses of being a decent hitter after his return from AAA he's still going to struggle mightily against lefties. David Cooper doesn't really have a long enough track record in the MLB. He played 45 games last year, and wasn't overly impressive. His minor league track record shows he can hit, but it's the PCL. Everyone can.

Both are terrible runners with Cooper probably being even slower, I'm pretty sure I can field better at 1b then the both of them combined. You have to go with Lind I think because he actually posted a 3.5+ WAR season which is not easy to do, unless you can get something better that is.

45ish games is just too little for me to read into Coopers stats. I'll let the coaches decide, because I'm sure AA/murphy have a good idea on Cooper and if he's a MLB player or not
Image
User avatar
TheMainEvent
Analyst
Posts: 3,073
And1: 1,814
Joined: Jun 23, 2007
Location: Mississauga

Re: Can David Cooper be that 1B/DH that we're looking for 

Post#99 » by TheMainEvent » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:37 pm

MikeM wrote:Damn, just remembered both Lind and Hill turned to complete **** after we hired Murphy.


If I remember correctly, Murphy was promoted to hitting coach right before Lind and Hill started sucking, but he was still around before then -- I think he held the first base coaching job, but was basically a second hitting coach. So I think maybe Tenace leaving hurt more than Murphy being there.
Good Lord, the little stoner's got a point.
Image
TheMainEvent on Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:03 pm wrote:I say the Raptors win the championship in 2019.
engageTHEmasses
Senior
Posts: 740
And1: 206
Joined: Jan 18, 2009
         

Re: Can David Cooper be that 1B/DH that we're looking for 

Post#100 » by engageTHEmasses » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:57 pm

a) glad to see some crazy threads can exist here, not just on the raps board lol
b) there are months and months til the season begins... let's be patient before we assume it's one/either of these guys for that slot
c) i like the idea of Berkman myself... great bat to fill out our roster... and I think we could get him enough fielding time to keep him from whining about DH'ing lol
===========
The Boy wrote:
trick wrote:Slavery was also an old-time tradition...

wtf bruh


Derrick Rose wrote:They're saying us and Golden State are the super teams.

Return to Toronto Blue Jays