RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread

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Re: RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread 

Post#281 » by therealbig3 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:12 am

I was going to iron out my top 50 as the project went on, but what I have so far:

1. 91 Michael Jordan
2. 00 Shaquille O'Neal
3. 65 Bill Russell
4. 12 LeBron James
5. 86 Larry Bird
6. 87 Magic Johnson
7. 67 Wilt Chamberlain
8. 77 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
9. 03 Tim Duncan
10. 93 Hakeem Olajuwon
11. 04 Kevin Garnett
12. 77 Bill Walton
13. 76 Julius Erving
14. 64 Oscar Robertson
15. 03 Tracy McGrady
16. 09 Dwyane Wade
17. 08 Kobe Bryant
18. 11 Dirk Nowitzki
19. 68 Jerry West
20. 95 David Robinson
21. 05 Steve Nash
22. 08 Chris Paul
23. 93 Charles Barkley
24. 98 Karl Malone
25. 90 Patrick Ewing
26. 83 Moses Malone
27. 95 Scottie Pippen
28. 96 Penny Hardaway
29. 87 Kevin McHale
30. 11 Dwight Howard
31. 75 Rick Barry
32. 12 Kevin Durant
33. 72 Walt Frazier
34. 90 Kevin Johnson
35. 00 Alonzo Mourning
36. 92 Clyde Drexler
37. Bob Pettit (not sure which year)
38. Isiah Thomas (not sure which year)
39. 75 Bob McAdoo
40. 08 Paul Pierce


A rough list, especially when you go further down...there's so many players that have an argument later on.
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Re: RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread 

Post#282 » by ardee » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:03 pm

kaima wrote:Steve Nash with a peak higher than Barkley, Malone, Malone, Baylor, Paul, Stockton, Thomas, etc, etc.

Well, it's fair to say that RealGM's regulars have surpassed even my expectations so far as comically overrating Steve Nash.

Entertaining project, but it's easy to see where its peak value was by that same measure. Just coasting from here.


Do you understand what Steve Nash does for a team?
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Re: RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread 

Post#283 » by ardee » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:56 pm

ElGee wrote:
ardee wrote:Anyone else have a ballot?


Yes -- and I was going to ask everyone this question. I believe it has value two-fold:

(1) If Doc, realbig3, fatal, Mufasa, drza, Regulat8r, raven, Penbeast, etc all submit a ballot, we can see the biases based on the current voting method. To me, this is the most interesting and valuable thing from a voting/results perspective.

(2) It forces people to make a ballot, which can be a very good thing. I'll post my top-40 below in an edit.

Rank Year SRS Impact Portability Health Player

SACRED PEAKS
1 1990 9.0 AVG 100% Jordan
2 2000 9.0 AVG 100% Shaq
3 1986 8.0 HIGH 100% Bird
4 1967 8.0 AVG 100% Chamberlain
5 2012 8.0 AVG 90% LBJ
6 1987 7.5 AVG 100% Magic
7 1993 7.5 HIGH 100% Olajuwon
8 1962 8.0 HIGH 100% Russell
9 2002 7.5 HIGH 100% Duncan
10 2004 7.5 HIGH 100% KG
11 1977 8.0 HIGH 80% Walton

GATEKEEPERS
12 1977 7.0 AVG 100% Kareem
13 1976 7.0 AVG 100% Erving

ALMOST SACRED
14 1994 6.5 HIGH 100% Robinson
15 2009 6.5 AVG 100% Wade
16 1968 6.5 HIGH 60% West
17 1990 6.0 HIGH 100% Barkley
18 1964 6.0 HIGH 100% Oscar
19 2008 6.0 AVG 100% Kobe
20 2008 6.0 AVG 100% Paul
21 1992 6.0 AVG 100% Malone
22 2007 6.0 AVG 90% Nash
23 2006 5.5 AVG 100% Dirk
24 1990 5.5 AVG 100% Ewing
25 1982 5.5 AVG 100% Moses
26 2003 6.0 AVG 90% McGrady

THE REST
27 2011 5.0 HIGH 100% Howard
28 1991 5.0 HIGH 100% Pippen
29 2012 5.0 HIGH 100% Durant
30 1996 5.0 HIGH 100% Penny
31 1975 5.5 AVG 100% Barry
32 1987 5.0 AVG 90% McHale
33 1971 5.0 AVG 100% Frazier
34 1967 5.0 AVG 80% Thurmond
35 1975 4.5 HIGH 100% Gilmore
36 2006 4.0 HIGH 100% Pierce
37 1997 5.0 LOW 100% Hill
38 2000 4.0 HIGH 100% Mourning
39 1984 4.5 LOW 90% King
40 1985 4.0 AVG 100% Thomas

**Note -- multiple years may qualify for the same player -- in that case, the first occurrence was selected


Just out of curiosity, did you mean for that to be 1990 over 1991 Jordan? I can definitely see the argument, 1990 Jordan was INSANE in the postseason (43-8-7 against the Sixers?!), but since portability is a big part of your evaluation here, you might want to consider that 1991 MJ was ridiculous off-ball and as a playmaker.

And btw, I remember you being pretty high on Duncan in the beginning of the project? You ranked him 4th at one point IIRC. If I may ask, what changed?
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Re: RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread 

Post#284 » by ardee » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:59 pm

I'm in the process of prepping mine right now... It's funny how much it changes practically every week.

Positvity, Doctor MJ, bastillion, anyone else?
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Re: RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread 

Post#285 » by lorak » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:35 pm

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Re: RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread 

Post#286 » by fatal9 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:28 pm

Posting my top 50, it's not set it stone or anything, always receptive to new arguments. The "+" rating is just my personal summation of a player's offensive impact/ability, defensive impact, and intangibles (different caps for each). Added it to show which players I see around the same level. Like others have mentioned, not a fan of naked lists because don't get a chance to explain why a certain year is picked or why a certain player is ranked so high/low.

1. '91 MJ +9.5
2. '93 Hakeem +9
3. '00 Shaq +9
4. '77 KAJ +8
5. '12 LeBron +8
6. '86 Bird +8
7. '87 Magic +8
8. '03 Duncan +8
9. '04 KG +7.5
10. '77 Walton +7.5
11. '62 Russell +7.5
12. '67 Wilt +7
13. '09 Wade +6.5
14. '64 Oscar +6.5
15. '08 Kobe +6.5
16. '76 Dr. J +6.5
17. '90 Ewing +6.5
18. '95 D-Rob +6.5
19. '70 West +6.5
20. '11 Dirk +6
21. '07 Nash +6
22. '03 T-Mac +6
23. '09 Paul +6
24. '93 Barkley +6
25. '98 Malone +6
26. '87 McHale +5.5
27. '12 Durant +5.5
28. '11 Howard +5.5
29. '83 Moses +5.5
30. '94 Pippen +5.5
31. '75 Barry +5.5
32. '96 Penny +5.5
33. '72 Frazier +5
34. '00 Zo +5
35. '06 Pierce +5
36. '74 Lanier +5
37. '76 Cowens +5
38. '92 Drexler +5
39. '00 Hill +5
40. '59 Pettit +5
41. '03 Kidd +5
42. '88 Isiah +5
43. '92 Price +5
44. '71 Thurmond +5
45. '76 McAdoo +4.5
46. '07 Manu +4.5
47. '01 Vince +4.5
48. '96 Payton +4.5
49. '70 Reed +4.5
50. '92 Stockton +4.5 (or KJ)

There are a couple of players who could be on here but I'm not really comfortable ranking yet. Even guys like McAdoo and Pettit, despite throwing them on here, I still don't feel I have a good grasp of their game and team situation.

Lately, I've been more and more curious about Shaq's playoff defense. I haven't revisited some of the series from his absolute peak in a long time but it's interesting to me how poorly his teams perform/fall-off on defense in the playoffs . Are his team defensive weaknesses being strategically exploited by good teams (even in years Shaq is "trying" on D)?
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Re: RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread 

Post#287 » by Dr Positivity » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:13 am

My top 25 from a little while ago http://asubstituteforwar.com/2012/10/08 ... -all-time/

1. Wilt 67
2. Jordan 91
3. Hakeem 95
4. Shaq 00
5. Kareem 77
6. Duncan 03
7. Walton 77
8. KG 04
9. Lebron 12
10. Russell 65
11. Bird 86
12. Magic 87
13. Oscar 63
14. Dirk 11
15. Nash 05
16. Paul 08
17. Tmac 03
18. Wade 10
19. Kobe 09
20. West 66
21. Ewing 90
22. Barkley 93
23. Robinson 95
24. Erving 80
25. Moses 83
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Re: RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread 

Post#288 » by ardee » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:31 pm

Ok, wow, maybe I need to rewatch some '93 Hakeem games. Does anyone have a link to the 30-20-7 Clippers game?
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Re: RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread 

Post#289 » by fatal9 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:18 pm

ardee wrote:Ok, wow, maybe I need to rewatch some '93 Hakeem games. Does anyone have a link to the 30-20-7 Clippers game?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvo-Lmx-UFk
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Re: RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread 

Post#290 » by ElGee » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:20 pm

ardee wrote:
ElGee wrote:
ardee wrote:Anyone else have a ballot?


Yes -- and I was going to ask everyone this question. I believe it has value two-fold:

(1) If Doc, realbig3, fatal, Mufasa, drza, Regulat8r, raven, Penbeast, etc all submit a ballot, we can see the biases based on the current voting method. To me, this is the most interesting and valuable thing from a voting/results perspective.

(2) It forces people to make a ballot, which can be a very good thing. I'll post my top-40 below in an edit.

Rank Year SRS Impact Portability Health Player

SACRED PEAKS
1 1990 9.0 AVG 100% Jordan
2 2000 9.0 AVG 100% Shaq
3 1986 8.0 HIGH 100% Bird
4 1967 8.0 AVG 100% Chamberlain
5 2012 8.0 AVG 90% LBJ
6 1987 7.5 AVG 100% Magic
7 1993 7.5 HIGH 100% Olajuwon
8 1962 8.0 HIGH 100% Russell
9 2002 7.5 HIGH 100% Duncan
10 2004 7.5 HIGH 100% KG
11 1977 8.0 HIGH 80% Walton

GATEKEEPERS
12 1977 7.0 AVG 100% Kareem
13 1976 7.0 AVG 100% Erving

ALMOST SACRED
14 1994 6.5 HIGH 100% Robinson
15 2009 6.5 AVG 100% Wade
16 1968 6.5 HIGH 60% West
17 1990 6.0 HIGH 100% Barkley
18 1964 6.0 HIGH 100% Oscar
19 2008 6.0 AVG 100% Kobe
20 2008 6.0 AVG 100% Paul
21 1992 6.0 AVG 100% Malone
22 2007 6.0 AVG 90% Nash
23 2006 5.5 AVG 100% Dirk
24 1990 5.5 AVG 100% Ewing
25 1982 5.5 AVG 100% Moses
26 2003 6.0 AVG 90% McGrady

THE REST
27 2011 5.0 HIGH 100% Howard
28 1991 5.0 HIGH 100% Pippen
29 2012 5.0 HIGH 100% Durant
30 1996 5.0 HIGH 100% Penny
31 1975 5.5 AVG 100% Barry
32 1987 5.0 AVG 90% McHale
33 1971 5.0 AVG 100% Frazier
34 1967 5.0 AVG 80% Thurmond
35 1975 4.5 HIGH 100% Gilmore
36 2006 4.0 HIGH 100% Pierce
37 1997 5.0 LOW 100% Hill
38 2000 4.0 HIGH 100% Mourning
39 1984 4.5 LOW 90% King
40 1985 4.0 AVG 100% Thomas

**Note -- multiple years may qualify for the same player -- in that case, the first occurrence was selected


Just out of curiosity, did you mean for that to be 1990 over 1991 Jordan? I can definitely see the argument, 1990 Jordan was INSANE in the postseason (43-8-7 against the Sixers?!), but since portability is a big part of your evaluation here, you might want to consider that 1991 MJ was ridiculous off-ball and as a playmaker.

And btw, I remember you being pretty high on Duncan in the beginning of the project? You ranked him 4th at one point IIRC. If I may ask, what changed?


Never that high on Duncan -- you are thinking of someone else (I think). See the note at the bottom of my post -- I'd take 91 Jordan over 90, but they are on the same line to me. For the purpose of listing 40 guys, I pulled the data from my spreadsheet, so the first chronological occurrence of the season was pulled. I'd take 97 or 98 Malone over 92 Malone too, but they are also on the same line IMO.

Also FTR, I have the hardest time ranking LBJ, Magic and Russell. Hakeem is always a guy I think "I can see him being right next to Jordan" (see Fatal's list) but it's just so darn confounding to me given the quality of those Rockets teams and the 1 in 4 out. Also have a hard time with Dwight Howard.
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Re: RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread 

Post#291 » by Dr Positivity » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:29 pm

Project is clearly dead. I suggest either

- "Ending" the project at #35 and pretending the #36 thread never happened

- #37-#40 is voted for at the same time (people list their top 4)
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Re: RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread 

Post#292 » by ardee » Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:35 pm

ElGee wrote:Never that high on Duncan -- you are thinking of someone else (I think). See the note at the bottom of my post -- I'd take 91 Jordan over 90, but they are on the same line to me. For the purpose of listing 40 guys, I pulled the data from my spreadsheet, so the first chronological occurrence of the season was pulled. I'd take 97 or 98 Malone over 92 Malone too, but they are also on the same line IMO.

Also FTR, I have the hardest time ranking LBJ, Magic and Russell. Hakeem is always a guy I think "I can see him being right next to Jordan" (see Fatal's list) but it's just so darn confounding to me given the quality of those Rockets teams and the 1 in 4 out. Also have a hard time with Dwight Howard.


Spreadsheet? How many seasons did you analyse and rank :o ?

I feel Magic is clearly a top 5 peak, I have him neck and neck with Bird. For a poster who values contribution to a team that much I'm a bit surprised you have such a gulf between them.

The 6-10 segment after the top 5: James, Russell, Jabbar and Hakeem: almost impossible for me to put in order, I keep changing.

Dr Positivity wrote:Project is clearly dead. I suggest either

- "Ending" the project at #35 and pretending the #36 thread never happened

- #37-#40 is voted for at the same time (people list their top 4)


Yeah I'm feeling a bit sad it's come to this, but the sooner we get everyone to vote the better, I guess everything has a shelf life. I feel the project was at its best from the 7-15 threads, that's when we had some really awesome debate.

If Doc is cool with it we can just all put in our last 4 in the no. 37 thread, and then be done with it.

FTR I'd like to thank Doc profusely for expanding on my original idea, as with the board in general, the project wouldn't have run at all minus him.
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Re: RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread 

Post#293 » by Doctor MJ » Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:55 pm

Okay, yeah we're done. What a bummer.

ardee, I'll give a personal 50 list when I get around to it. Will try to do it soon.
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Re: RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread 

Post#294 » by SideshowBob » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:06 pm

ElGee wrote:Rank Year SRS Impact Portability Health Player

SACRED PEAKS
1 1990 9.0 AVG 100% Jordan
2 2000 9.0 AVG 100% Shaq
3 1986 8.0 HIGH 100% Bird
4 1967 8.0 AVG 100% Chamberlain
5 2012 8.0 AVG 90% LBJ
6 1987 7.5 AVG 100% Magic
7 1993 7.5 HIGH 100% Olajuwon
8 1962 8.0 HIGH 100% Russell
9 2002 7.5 HIGH 100% Duncan
10 2004 7.5 HIGH 100% KG
11 1977 8.0 HIGH 80% Walton

GATEKEEPERS
12 1977 7.0 AVG 100% Kareem
13 1976 7.0 AVG 100% Erving

ALMOST SACRED
14 1994 6.5 HIGH 100% Robinson
15 2009 6.5 AVG 100% Wade
16 1968 6.5 HIGH 60% West
17 1990 6.0 HIGH 100% Barkley
18 1964 6.0 HIGH 100% Oscar
19 2008 6.0 AVG 100% Kobe
20 2008 6.0 AVG 100% Paul
21 1992 6.0 AVG 100% Malone
22 2007 6.0 AVG 90% Nash
23 2006 5.5 AVG 100% Dirk
24 1990 5.5 AVG 100% Ewing
25 1982 5.5 AVG 100% Moses
26 2003 6.0 AVG 90% McGrady

THE REST
27 2011 5.0 HIGH 100% Howard
28 1991 5.0 HIGH 100% Pippen
29 2012 5.0 HIGH 100% Durant
30 1996 5.0 HIGH 100% Penny
31 1975 5.5 AVG 100% Barry
32 1987 5.0 AVG 90% McHale
33 1971 5.0 AVG 100% Frazier
34 1967 5.0 AVG 80% Thurmond
35 1975 4.5 HIGH 100% Gilmore
36 2006 4.0 HIGH 100% Pierce
37 1997 5.0 LOW 100% Hill
38 2000 4.0 HIGH 100% Mourning
39 1984 4.5 LOW 90% King
40 1985 4.0 AVG 100% Thomas


I assume that your rankings account for era differences but your SRS ratings do not, which would explain someone like Russell being a HIGH +8.0 100% Health player but being ranked under several 7.5 SRS HIGH/AVG portability players as well as 2 AVG +8.0 players. Same with Walton ranking 11th despite the same SRS/Port./Health as Russell.

Also, it'd definitely be interesting to see how your list breaks down offensively vs. defensively (or at least the Sacred Peaks), but if listing those is not practical then its no big deal :)
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Re: RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread 

Post#295 » by ardee » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:07 pm

SideshowBob wrote:
ElGee wrote:Rank Year SRS Impact Portability Health Player

SACRED PEAKS
1 1990 9.0 AVG 100% Jordan
2 2000 9.0 AVG 100% Shaq
3 1986 8.0 HIGH 100% Bird
4 1967 8.0 AVG 100% Chamberlain
5 2012 8.0 AVG 90% LBJ
6 1987 7.5 AVG 100% Magic
7 1993 7.5 HIGH 100% Olajuwon
8 1962 8.0 HIGH 100% Russell
9 2002 7.5 HIGH 100% Duncan
10 2004 7.5 HIGH 100% KG
11 1977 8.0 HIGH 80% Walton

GATEKEEPERS
12 1977 7.0 AVG 100% Kareem
13 1976 7.0 AVG 100% Erving

ALMOST SACRED
14 1994 6.5 HIGH 100% Robinson
15 2009 6.5 AVG 100% Wade
16 1968 6.5 HIGH 60% West
17 1990 6.0 HIGH 100% Barkley
18 1964 6.0 HIGH 100% Oscar
19 2008 6.0 AVG 100% Kobe
20 2008 6.0 AVG 100% Paul
21 1992 6.0 AVG 100% Malone
22 2007 6.0 AVG 90% Nash
23 2006 5.5 AVG 100% Dirk
24 1990 5.5 AVG 100% Ewing
25 1982 5.5 AVG 100% Moses
26 2003 6.0 AVG 90% McGrady

THE REST
27 2011 5.0 HIGH 100% Howard
28 1991 5.0 HIGH 100% Pippen
29 2012 5.0 HIGH 100% Durant
30 1996 5.0 HIGH 100% Penny
31 1975 5.5 AVG 100% Barry
32 1987 5.0 AVG 90% McHale
33 1971 5.0 AVG 100% Frazier
34 1967 5.0 AVG 80% Thurmond
35 1975 4.5 HIGH 100% Gilmore
36 2006 4.0 HIGH 100% Pierce
37 1997 5.0 LOW 100% Hill
38 2000 4.0 HIGH 100% Mourning
39 1984 4.5 LOW 90% King
40 1985 4.0 AVG 100% Thomas


I assume that your rankings account for era differences but your SRS ratings do not, which would explain someone like Russell being a HIGH +8.0 100% Health player but being ranked under several 7.5 SRS HIGH/AVG portability players as well as 2 AVG +8.0 players. Same with Walton ranking 11th despite the same SRS/Port./Health as Russell.

Also, it'd definitely be interesting to see how your Sacred Peaks break down offensively vs. defensively, but if listing those is not practical then its no big deal :)


SideShowBob do you have a list?
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Re: RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread 

Post#296 » by SideshowBob » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:18 pm

ardee wrote:SideShowBob do you have a list?


I've been fiddling with making one for the past few months but can't really find the time to really put together a serious one. I'm strongly considering putting some time in after this season, so if I post one, it'll be after the Finals and it'll include 2013. Further, after following this project through its entirety, I have to say I definitely like the way Elgee's approaching this, and when I make a list, I'm going to try and use the same criteria.
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Re: RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread 

Post#297 » by ardee » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:37 pm

Ok here's my ballot, took me time to put it together with some confidence:

Rank Player Season SRS Rating

1 Wilt Chamberlain 1967 9.5
2 Michael Jordan 1991 9.5

3 Shaquille O'Neal 2000 9
4 Hakeem Olajuwon 1994 9

5 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1977 8.5
6 Larry Bird 1986 8.5
7 Magic Johnson 1987 8.5

8 Tim Duncan 2003 8
9 LeBron James 2009 8
10 Bill Russell 1965 7.5

11 Bill Walton 1977 8
12 Kevin Garnett 2004 7

13 Oscar Robertson 1964 6.5
14 Kobe Bryant 2008 6.5
15 Julius Erving 1976 6.5

16 Dwyane Wade 2009 6.5
17 Jerry West 1966 6

18 Charles Barkley 1993 6.5
19 Chris Paul 2008 6
20 Steve Nash 2007 6
21 Dirk Nowitzki 2011 6
22 Moses Malone 1983 6

23 David Robinson 1994 5.5
24 Patrick Ewing 1990 5.5
25 Tracy McGrady 2003 5.5

26 Karl Malone 1992 5.5

27 Dwight Howard 2011 5
28 Elgin Baylor 1961 5
29 Bernard King 1984 5
30 Scottie Pippen 1992 5
31 Penny Hardaway 1996 5

32 Kevin Durant 2012 5
33 Rick Barry 1975 5
34 Kevin McHale 1987 5

35 Artis Gilmore 1975 5
36 Bob Pettit 1959 4.5
37 Dave Cowens 1976 4.5

38 Clyde Drexler 1992 4.5
39 Isiah Thomas 1985 4.5
40 Walt Frazier 1972 4
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Re: RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread 

Post#298 » by ardee » Sat Dec 1, 2012 4:36 pm

Going to get to the totalling up relatively soon. Still got bastillion, Doc, and.... not sure who else, considering the number of people who got waived halfway through the project, lol.

Anyway, OT, I think this was a very great and informative project. Kind of like RPOY on steroids. Of course nothing can top the top 100 though, lol. Thank you everyone for listening to my raw and unpolished ideas in the beginning and thanks to the mods for fleshing them out. It's been great, even if it didn't end like we wanted it to.
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Re: RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread 

Post#299 » by oolalaa » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:42 pm

To save me trawling through 20 pages of comments, can someone explain to me how/why the **** Elgin Baylor's peak is ranked so lowly on this site? I know his impact wasn't as great as the box scores indicated but can we employ some common **** sense please?? Below Karl Malone, Scottie Pippen and Penny Hardaway???? Is there some secret, unwritten vendetta against Elgin or something? His peak wasn't even 60/61, it was 61/62, or if you want to penalise him for his military service then 62/63 (A season that he had a good case for MVP). What did Oscar do that was so special in 62/63, his supposed peak by the people who voted? Huh? To have peak Oscar 15 spots ahead of peak Baylor is a disgrace. I'm angry.
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Re: RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread 

Post#300 » by ardee » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:49 am

oolalaa wrote:To save me trawling through 20 pages of comments, can someone explain to me how/why the **** Elgin Baylor's peak is ranked so lowly on this site? I know his impact wasn't as great as the box scores indicated but can we employ some common **** sense please?? Below Karl Malone, Scottie Pippen and Penny Hardaway???? Is there some secret, unwritten vendetta against Elgin or something? His peak wasn't even 60/61, it was 61/62, or if you want to penalise him for his military service then 62/63 (A season that he had a good case for MVP). What did Oscar do that was so special in 62/63, his supposed peak by the people who voted? Huh? To have peak Oscar 15 spots ahead of peak Baylor is a disgrace. I'm angry.


How about you read the threads and figure it out that way :wink:

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