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Elephant In the Room - KB

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Re: Elephant In the Room - KB 

Post#21 » by MensRea » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:32 pm

Look, I've concluded that anybody down on Kobe THIS season hasn't watched any of the games THIS season, other than his one bad shooting game of the season.
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Re: Elephant In the Room - KB 

Post#22 » by StarneyBinston » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:19 am

The thing is we've been waiting for him to play more efficiently for years. So when he starts doing it, and has one bad game when he reverts to old Kobe, it is frustrating. But that should not make us forget how well he's been playing so far this season.
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Re: Elephant In the Room - KB 

Post#23 » by leeprettyp » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:18 pm

StarneyBinston wrote:The thing is we've been waiting for him to play more efficiently for years. So when he starts doing it, and has one bad game when he reverts to old Kobe, it is frustrating. But that should not make us forget how well he's been playing so far this season.


I get your logic here bro. But you do understand Kobe is a career 45%fg shooter and more than half of his career he was the #1 option on the team. Superstar SG who damn near was tripled teamed at times during his career to post the numbers that he has was amazing. Teams game planned for him and still do. He isnt 260lbs 6'9 like Lebron and didnt live off of attack the basket recklessly like Wade did throughout his career (why he's struggling now because he's losing athleticism and never was really a good shooter). Dont let stats and #'s be the tell all in my opinion. I base my opinion more on accomplishments and what that players position(stature) was on those teams
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Re: Elephant In the Room - KB 

Post#24 » by Run-MKE 311 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:49 pm

I agree completely, but truly believe Kobe will lay off when he sees what the other stars on this team can do.

Having Nash go down early was hard, Kobe felt the need to step up and take over. Once Nash is back and rolling, Kobe will realize the talent he has and the fact that it does not have to be him anymore.

I am taking nothing away from Kobe, he is the alpha dog and will always be there when we need him. But we do not need him to carry us, especially when Nash is back. The Lakers will win with Kobe, not following him, I believe that in this point of his career, he finally realizes that.

Most Lakers fans agree on this, but it is hard to admit because he has been so great for so long.
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Re: Elephant In the Room - KB 

Post#25 » by JustAwesome » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:18 pm

However, his selfishness and stubbornness is his downfall especially later in his career.


Those are the two traits that helped him become viewed as one of the greatest players ever.
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Re: Elephant In the Room - KB 

Post#26 » by LApwnd » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:22 pm

MensRea wrote:No. Mamba's fine. He hasn't forced anything this season. He's had one bad game. Other than that, he's been playing within the offense all season long.


and of all the games he chooses to force things, its a game where he is sick, his thougth process makes me wonder soemtimes
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Re: Elephant In the Room - KB 

Post#27 » by MensRea » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:41 pm

LApwnd wrote:
MensRea wrote:No. Mamba's fine. He hasn't forced anything this season. He's had one bad game. Other than that, he's been playing within the offense all season long.


and of all the games he chooses to force things, its a game where he is sick, his thougth process makes me wonder soemtimes


What the hell was he supposed to do in that game? Seriously? What did you want him to do? He literally was trying to force feed Dwight and Pau and the ball kept coming back to him. Every time he swung the ball to Morris, they would miss the shot or pass back to Kobe. If Kobe passes the ball and the ball finds it's way to back to kobe without him asking for it, what do you want him to do? Even Dantoni was deferring to Kobe in that game (playing him 44 minutes). If Kobe hadn't played, we would have been blown out. Dwight for whatever reason is not ready to be the number one option on this team. Kobe did what he had to do.
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Re: Elephant In the Room - KB 

Post#28 » by LApwnd » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:47 pm

MensRea wrote:
LApwnd wrote:
MensRea wrote:No. Mamba's fine. He hasn't forced anything this season. He's had one bad game. Other than that, he's been playing within the offense all season long.


and of all the games he chooses to force things, its a game where he is sick, his thougth process makes me wonder soemtimes


What the hell was he supposed to do in that game? Seriously? What did you want him to do? He literally was trying to force feed Dwight and Pau and the ball kept coming back to him. Every time he swung the ball to Morris, they would miss the shot or pass back to Kobe. If Kobe passes the ball and the ball finds it's way to back to kobe without him asking for it, what do you want him to do? Even Dantoni was deferring to Kobe in that game (playing him 44 minutes). If Kobe hadn't played, we would have been blown out. Dwight for whatever reason is not ready to be the number one option on this team. Kobe did what he had to do.


and there were mutliple possession where he had the Ball and one else touched it once before he chucked away.
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Re: Elephant In the Room - KB 

Post#29 » by USA » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:25 pm

VanExeleNT wrote:The problem: if Kobe misses 5 shots in a row and he continues to shoot people say "he is trying to will his team back into this game". if gasol or dwight miss 5 shots in a row they end up with 7 FG attempts in the whole game. THEY DON'T GET THE BALL enough to say they had a bad game,

I don't agree with this. You make it sound like these guys never touch the ball, which is BS. These guys get the ball enough it is just that they aren't alpha dogs so when they do get it they pass it like a hot potato instead of trying to get a hoop. Kobe isn't going to wait around and Pau shouldn't either. Pau needs to be more aggressive but the problem is he isn't by nature. That is not a Kobe problem, that is a Pau problem.
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Re: Elephant In the Room - KB 

Post#30 » by Optms » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:11 am

Why hasn't anyone started a thread on why Howard can't hit free throws or hold on to the ball? Why does he get a pass?
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Re: Elephant In the Room - KB 

Post#31 » by MensRea » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:24 am

Optms wrote:Why hasn't anyone started a thread on why Howard can't hit free throws or hold on to the ball? Why does he get a pass?


Because we lived through Shaq and it didn't really hurt us then, not worried about it now.
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Re: Elephant In the Room - KB 

Post#32 » by Optms » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:21 am

:o Did you insinuate Shaq and Howard are one in the same? Dude.

Anywho. My point is Kobe and Gasol have earned the right to not be called out publically by run of the mill replacements to Phil. Arguing that if Gasol gets called out, Kobe should too, is absurd. Gasol doesn't mean a fraction to the franchise as Kobe does.

Maybe its the fact that you guys know Howard hasn't yet signed those papers that a lot of you are timid not get on him for costing us games at the line, but as far as I'm concerned, he's not otherworldy good enough nor has he paid his dues to the team the way others have. I fully expect him in a Lakers jersey this time next year up but believe me when I say that I won't lose any sleep there be a situation where he doesn't.
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Re: Elephant In the Room - KB 

Post#33 » by gp123 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:44 am

Optms wrote:Why hasn't anyone started a thread on why Howard can't hit free throws or hold on to the ball? Why does he get a pass?

this is essentially the scouting report on dwight's offense... I think he should get a pass because well, that's him... if you wanted a skilled big you should have traded for pau gasol.
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Re: Elephant In the Room - KB 

Post#34 » by leeprettyp » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:55 am

Optms wrote:Why hasn't anyone started a thread on why Howard can't hit free throws or hold on to the ball? Why does he get a pass?



Because this makes to much sense and wouldnt help their Kobe bashing arguments smh. Dwight gets the ball but lets be realistic he isnt a #1 option (at least not yet) and folds under pressure you can see it. But Kobe literally has to be the most unappreciated superstar and winner ever in this L.A. market. UNREAL. Regardless if you people want to admit it or not, when this guy hangs the sneakers up our franchise is gonna really take a huge step back. I'm not saying the guys perfect but you would think after the multiple titles the guy has helped bring to the city, people would have a better understanding of what makes this guy tick (his drive to win). If his competitive nature erks you then just say that, but dont act as if we know more about playing the game of basketball then he does and I think thats where the biggest disconnect coming from with lukewarm Laker fans.
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Re: Elephant In the Room - KB 

Post#35 » by Mamba Venom » Sat Dec 1, 2012 4:54 am

Mamba is the biggest Pau supporter on the team.

Pau is an ideal 4th option. Just wait for Nash and give Gasol 10 mil a year. Kobe still looks like the best player by far and that is next to Dwight who most say in the media is the 2nd best player in the NBA w/ LeBron being the 1st.
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Re: Elephant In the Room - KB 

Post#36 » by Doormatt » Sat Dec 1, 2012 4:59 am

Mamba Venom wrote:Mamba is the biggest Pau supporter on the team.

Pau is an ideal 4th option. Just wait for Nash and give Gasol 10 mil a year. Kobe still looks like the best player by far and that is next to Dwight who most say in the media is the 2nd best player in the NBA w/ LeBron being the 1st.


... dwight is the best player on this team. i mean, at this exact moment kobe is better because he is arguably playing the best basketball of his career, or at least close to it. and do you really think 34 year old kobe can sustain this level of play an entire season? probably not.
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Post#37 » by VanExeleNT » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:23 pm

When Kobe scores over 30 points.

Keep denying it Kobe only fans, I been a Laker fan for 20+ years I been a Kobe fan since 96 all the way to last year.

Listen to the player interviews, watch their demeanor around him and see and read behind the lines, its difficult to play alongside this guy now.

As he gets older he skills will only decrease minimally because he is that good and that smart but his problem isn't his skill level his problem is that his skill level at 34 doesn't make up for his attitude and stubbornness. As he gets older he will still keep an eye on that all time scoring record he will still keep an eye on oldest player to score blank stats. he wants to win a championship but he wants to be the reason for it and he needs to realize that he's playing in a MUCH MUCH tougher league than Jordan and he can't win alone @ 34.

Compare his FGA to wins and losses. Numbers don't lie.

We may play the right way and come back from 10 down to cut it to 5 or 6 and kobe will try to bring us back from that and we slip back down again.

Nash will help as long as he can say to kobe's face that let me do my thing because if I have the ball for 15+ seconds we will get a good look. Kobe won't accept 15 shots a game he won't accept 22PPG but the truth is we have all this talent and to me him scoring 28PPG is a problem not an achievement. You can't expect people to score and be consistent if they never get a rhythm.

My previous post (link below) people called me a kobe hater and a gasol apologetic. Gasol has been on the bench now for 4 games. I'm not a kobe hater, I'm a LAKER FAN. I plan to be a laker fan after Kobe leaves and after dwight leaves so I just want to win. I'm thankful for everything Kobe has done and I get people find it hard to blame him because he can still put up crazy numbers but that's the problem. sometimes less is more. Rhythm, desire, consistency from other players all comes when they feel like they get their fair share. everyone's afraid to say it but I will keep saying this because I know it's the problem. That's just me and I'm sure some agree but im sure others will again call me a hater. Out again, i don't post much but i'm frustrated like everyone else.

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Re: Elephant In the Room - KB 

Post#38 » by Doormatt » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:44 pm

numbers do not lie, this is true, they are just numbers waiting to be interpreted. but that doesnt mean you are properly interpreting them.

unless you can actually provide evidence that kobe taking more shots hurts the lakers chances of winning, then you dont actually have anything to discuss. it not as simple as kobe "compare his FGA to wins and losses". thats not how stats and numbers work. you have to account for minutes played, pace, rotations, maybe shot distribution, etc. before you can even remotely come to a conclusion like, the more kobe shoots, the less likely the lakers are to win.

just so were clear, i dont care if youre a hater or a laker fan or whatever you are. it doesnt really matter. but what youve provided here, as far as i cant tell, is nothing of substance.

and if were going off of pure opinion, like you just did, i think this is the first year in probably 2+ years that kobe has not shot the ball too much and is actually playing very well within the flow of the offense. of course hes going to have games and moments where he shoots too much, that defines kobes entire career, but this is the one year where i have a much harder time criticizing him for that than in years past.
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Re: Elephant In the Room - KB 

Post#39 » by Slava » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:59 pm

If you want to throw a rock and hope it sticks you throw it at the biggest target possible. That's pretty much the correlation between Kobe's shooting volume and our issues this season.
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Re: Elephant In the Room - KB 

Post#40 » by CharlieMurphy » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:28 am

interesting stat: the Lakers are 2-7 when Dwight Howard turns the ball over 4 or more times.

If Dwight would just stop being so ball dominant we could win more games. Why does Dwight think that hero ball will work?

But seriously, here's an actual fun fact: Dwight is right at his career average of FGA, you know the career he built that made you all salivate about him being here. (Also, Ryan Anderson took more shots than Dwight last year :o, right?)

I wonder how Kobe is going to make Dwight take more shots than he ever did/wanted to while being the "number one option" in Orlando.

We all just really need to face facts: Dwight is not Shaq. He's not going to be a player that will average 20 shots a game even if we gave him the ball every time down the court. Furthermore, if we did give him the ball every time down the court, he still wouldn't average 20 FGA because he would get fouled. (Which brings me to another way he's different from Shaq: he's actually a worse FT shooter than Shaq. Crazy right?)

Think about this: Dwight averages 11.4 FGA this year and 10.5 FTA, so that's basically 16 shots/game. Shaq (during our championship years with him) averaged 19.5 FGA and 11.4FTA, that's basically 25 shots/game. (Of course that all doesn't take into account hack-a-shaq or hack-a-dwight, but it's still a good indication of how often they at least threw the ball at the basket in the attempt of a shot) But literally Shaq shot the ball almost 10 more times a game than Dwight does now. Or ever will for that matter, because Dwight's career high in FGA is 13.4.

Haven't you guys wondered why Dwight's always asking for lobs instead of entry passes? He can't score consistently with his back to the basket, plus if you lob it to him he's less likely to get fouled and be forced go to the place where he knows he's bound to fail.

The real elephant in the room is that Kobe can't play defense because he has to score the points that you all foolishly expected to come from Dwight as a product of some magical Shaq seance that would transform him into a player who makes 60% of his fts and also averages 20 FGA.

It's not going to happen. So either Dwight has to make more of his FTs so that Kobe doesn't have to score points to make up for the disparity, or the points are going to have to come from elsewhere. If the points aren't coming you can damn sure expect Kobe to do whatever he has to do to score, which is something we should all be thankful for.

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