The Amazingly Suck Theodore Leonsis Thread
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- sashae
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"Being tall" is a fundamental for a frontcourt player
ernie grunfeld: the perpetual dumpster fire of general management
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- pancakes3
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread
Furthermore, fast break is just a portion of half the game. My biggest beef with Ves is that he's incompetent on the defensive side of the court. High fouls. Low rebounds. Ted can't handwave those disappointments away. 7 footers who can slide and jump the way Ves can should be better at defense than he is.
Bullets -> Wizards
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- Nivek
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Here's the thing -- if the front office truly believes Vesely is "fundamentally sound" the franchise is even more **** than we thought.
"A lot of what we call talent is the desire to practice."
-- Malcolm Gladwell
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread
- Chocolate City Jordanaire
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sashae wrote:Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I agree with Ted on Vesely. He needs to run. I also agree on Beal. He is young. Neither are what most want them to be right now, but they're young and can be useful in Jan's case and very good once Beal starts hitting shots.
Not to beat you up CCJ, but for once I'd *love* to draft a player that immediately delivers what they were expected to deliver (at a minimum) or over-delivers in terms of talent (hello, Damian Lillard.) JUST ONCE.
Wall's rookie year was pretty exciting to start out with, but hasn't gotten any better yet.
sashae, on draft day I was hoping the Wizards could trade the #3 pick for the #6 and #11 picks. I wanted Lillard and Zeller. Both played 4 years of NCAA ball. I felt very strongly Lillard would be the real deal from day one. I envisioned Zeller as capable of playing PF or C because of his mobility. I knew he would be ready mentally, physically, and emotionally.
Beal is a mature kid for his age, but physically, he's still just 19 and playing in a league full of grown ass men. He's going to take a while.
Bye bye Beal.
Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread
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Pretty sure EG is posting as Ted on Ted's Take. This regime totally smells of Cerrato + Snyder, without all the big spending. Basically two guys who think they know it all but are completely missing the boat.
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- TGW
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I feel bad for Wall, because the organization is really pushing this "John Wall cures all" agenda on the fans. The only problem is that Wall is nowhere close to a finished product, and he has holes in his game just like every other player on this team.
So Vesely and Ariza's entire existence is predicated on John Wall being out there, and if he isn't playing, they are virtually useless...or this is what the FO is saying. That IMO, is an indictment of the incompetence of Grunfeld and Ted if this is truly the case...instead of getting good basketball players (as Nivek has been saying), they are getting players that do one or two things well in relation to another player. It makes no sense though...what if Wall demands a trade or gets injured again? It basically means Vesely and Ariza are completely useless and serve no purpose on this team.
I judt don't get it.
So Vesely and Ariza's entire existence is predicated on John Wall being out there, and if he isn't playing, they are virtually useless...or this is what the FO is saying. That IMO, is an indictment of the incompetence of Grunfeld and Ted if this is truly the case...instead of getting good basketball players (as Nivek has been saying), they are getting players that do one or two things well in relation to another player. It makes no sense though...what if Wall demands a trade or gets injured again? It basically means Vesely and Ariza are completely useless and serve no purpose on this team.
I judt don't get it.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread
- pancakes3
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Agreed. A team isn't a rube goldberg machine. If two of your players are woefully inadequate except in one specific aspect (and they're not even THAT effective when fast breaking) then those two players are the epitome of expendable - not core pieces that you pay mid-6 and upwards of 7 figures for.
Bullets -> Wizards
Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread
- Nivek
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Just did my weekly update of the numbers over at the blog -- http://broomonthewarpath.sportsblog.com ... zards.html
Think about this: Leonsis is selling the notion that the team is building around these "developing" young players who they've acquired the past 3 years. Keeping in mind that average in my rating system is 100 and replacement level is 60, here's where this young core rates so far this season:
- Booker -- 85
- Crawford -- 74
- Beal -- 49
- Singleton -- 46
- Seraphin -- 32
- Vesely -- -9
Now THAT'S a foundation for winning!
Think about this: Leonsis is selling the notion that the team is building around these "developing" young players who they've acquired the past 3 years. Keeping in mind that average in my rating system is 100 and replacement level is 60, here's where this young core rates so far this season:
- Booker -- 85
- Crawford -- 74
- Beal -- 49
- Singleton -- 46
- Seraphin -- 32
- Vesely -- -9
Now THAT'S a foundation for winning!
"A lot of what we call talent is the desire to practice."
-- Malcolm Gladwell
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread
Ves was drafted too high. He certainly was not worthy of the 6th pick. His offensive skills are putrid. But I also agree with those, like ccj, who argue that Ves can be a contributor if given decent minutes. With his size, athleticism, hustle and BB IQ, Ves is the kind of guy who can impact the game without scoring, which I've seen him do in the past. The kid needs more minutes and I'm disappointed that Witt is not giving him more PT.
I don't blame the Zards front office for Ves shortcomings or the fact that they traded for players who are getting minutes that Ves might be getting. Ves should earn his minutes just like everyone else. But it is kind of hard for him to earn those minutes when in recent games he's not getting any PT whatsoever.
I don't blame the Zards front office for Ves shortcomings or the fact that they traded for players who are getting minutes that Ves might be getting. Ves should earn his minutes just like everyone else. But it is kind of hard for him to earn those minutes when in recent games he's not getting any PT whatsoever.
Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread
- Nivek
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread
I'm confused. Vesely should earn his minutes, but he can't earn his minutes because he's not being GIVEN playing time? What?
Vesely has earned a seat on the bench by playing badly. Despite Ted's assertion that Vesely is "fundamentally sound" Vesely is lacking in basic basketball skills.
And while I don't blame the Wizards front office for Vesely lacking these skills, I do blame them for picking him 6th in the draft despite the fact that he was so lacking in basketball fundamentals.
Vesely has earned a seat on the bench by playing badly. Despite Ted's assertion that Vesely is "fundamentally sound" Vesely is lacking in basic basketball skills.
And while I don't blame the Wizards front office for Vesely lacking these skills, I do blame them for picking him 6th in the draft despite the fact that he was so lacking in basketball fundamentals.
"A lot of what we call talent is the desire to practice."
-- Malcolm Gladwell
Check out my blog about the Wizards, movies, writing, music, TV, sports, and whatever else comes to mind.
-- Malcolm Gladwell
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread
- Chocolate City Jordanaire
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I blame the Zards front office for being math-challenged. I wonder if Ernie had a coed taking his college algebra classes online posing as him (J/K -- there were no online courses or email in my day and I'm younger than EG).
Why do I say the Zards FO is math-challenged? They cannot count to 96 nor can they divide 96. PF and C only permit 96 minutes of play in a game. If you have three players sharing equally, that's 32 minutes each of play. If two players play 30 minutes, that leaves 36 minutes for everyone else.
Ted/EG had Nene. Boom. There goes 30 minutes. Here's where the math is involved. If the FO wanted to develop their young big players, they would have counted three: Seraphin, Booker, and Vesely. Those guys would have been okay with the other 66 minutes. Twenty-two minutes each on average, and they're good. Seraphin, however, was coming off of 16-straight double doubles last season. I think he probably figured to be 30-minute player. Also, Booker was coming off injury and he had played 30-minutes when Blatche was benched. Expectation for Booker was certainly more than 15 minutes here and there. And what about Vesely? The FO should have been think math and minutes.
Instead, they counted 1 and 2. Ted/EG felt really smart getting two for one when they traded Lewis for Okariza. But guess who became a starter by virtue of his age, experience, and CONTRACT? Okafor bumped the guys fighting for scraps of minutes.
Now, it's all Vesely's fault. He sucks. Seraphin is a shot jacker. Nivek shows above just what has happened to the young players. Negative growth. The day he made the Okafor/Ariza trade I posted that the Wizards would win less games and players would be pinched for minutes. It would ruin some careers.
Ted/EG are math challenged. They could not count to 96 or divide or forward-think. There is no way what they did will work. Ted and EG have a bond but they're doing some bad stuff and they cannot add.
(Chris Singleton playing PF splits those minutes even more BTW. Vesely needs to request a trade IMO).
Why do I say the Zards FO is math-challenged? They cannot count to 96 nor can they divide 96. PF and C only permit 96 minutes of play in a game. If you have three players sharing equally, that's 32 minutes each of play. If two players play 30 minutes, that leaves 36 minutes for everyone else.
Ted/EG had Nene. Boom. There goes 30 minutes. Here's where the math is involved. If the FO wanted to develop their young big players, they would have counted three: Seraphin, Booker, and Vesely. Those guys would have been okay with the other 66 minutes. Twenty-two minutes each on average, and they're good. Seraphin, however, was coming off of 16-straight double doubles last season. I think he probably figured to be 30-minute player. Also, Booker was coming off injury and he had played 30-minutes when Blatche was benched. Expectation for Booker was certainly more than 15 minutes here and there. And what about Vesely? The FO should have been think math and minutes.
Instead, they counted 1 and 2. Ted/EG felt really smart getting two for one when they traded Lewis for Okariza. But guess who became a starter by virtue of his age, experience, and CONTRACT? Okafor bumped the guys fighting for scraps of minutes.
Now, it's all Vesely's fault. He sucks. Seraphin is a shot jacker. Nivek shows above just what has happened to the young players. Negative growth. The day he made the Okafor/Ariza trade I posted that the Wizards would win less games and players would be pinched for minutes. It would ruin some careers.
Ted/EG are math challenged. They could not count to 96 or divide or forward-think. There is no way what they did will work. Ted and EG have a bond but they're doing some bad stuff and they cannot add.
(Chris Singleton playing PF splits those minutes even more BTW. Vesely needs to request a trade IMO).
Bye bye Beal.
Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread
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Nivek wrote:I'm confused. Vesely should earn his minutes, but he can't earn his minutes because he's not being GIVEN playing time? What?.
No need to be confused. My point is that with some limited playing time (say 8-10 minutes), which he is not currently getting, I believe Ves will earn even more minutes...maybe 20-22 minutes a game. Hope that clears it up...but, then again, maybe it won't.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread
We basically did start over, building a roster from scratch and a team that evolved around athleticism, running and two players – Nene and Wall – who have special skills and can make players around them fit in and play better team ball.
Even assuming this is accurate, which it is not in my opinion, nobody outside of Wall and perhaps Vesely necessarily sticks out as an elite athlete for their position, is he really suggesting that building a team around the ability to run a fast break is the key to longterm success?
Ted is talking so much nonsense, it's hard to take that drivel as anything but an insult to the loyal fans of this terribly run franchise.
What this team needs isn't support from the fans, it's a coherent strategy that's built on a little more than hope and prayers.
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- Illuminaire
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I think want DCZards is suggesting is reasonable. I like the idea of giving all of our youngsters a limited, defined role and a small number of guaranteed minutes. I'd like them to know that as long as they try hard and go at it in practice, those minutes will not decrease... but they will only increase if they earn it via consistent production and strong play.
We're not exactly contending, so there's no reason not to spend some player minutes on developmental activities.
We're not exactly contending, so there's no reason not to spend some player minutes on developmental activities.
Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread
- TGW
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DCZards wrote:Nivek wrote:I'm confused. Vesely should earn his minutes, but he can't earn his minutes because he's not being GIVEN playing time? What?.
No need to be confused. My point is that with some limited playing time (say 8-10 minutes), which he is not currently getting, I believe Ves will earn even more minutes...maybe 20-22 minutes a game. Hope that clears it up...but, then again, maybe it won't.
He hasn't earned 8-10 minutes, let alone 20-22.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread
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Nivek wrote:Vesely is fundamentally sound? Sure. As long as shooting, dribbling and maintaining position inside aren't fundamentals.
Other than actual basketball skills, Vesely is fundamentally sound.
He does well with the McGee fundamentals running, jumping and being tall. Agreed about actual basketball fundamentals.
Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread
- Earth2Ted
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Here's something that makes Ernie and the Wiz front office look even worse on Vesely- they fell in love with the guy the year BEFORE he was drafted and were thinking of drafting him in 2010 had he stayed in the draft, and had we not won the John Wall lottery.
So we can't even say, well, in 2011 we reluctantly took him because Ernie's guy got stolen a pick or two ahead of us! Nope, the player eval screw up goes back to the year before, and given a year to come to our senses and see that the kid had no hands and no skills... that's pretty much the definition of same s**T, different year.
Here's a question for NCAA B-ball aficionados - if Vesely had come to the US as a freshman and played college ball, who would he be? An anorexic Miles Plumlee, maybe?
That's who we snagged with our #6 lottery pick last year.
So we can't even say, well, in 2011 we reluctantly took him because Ernie's guy got stolen a pick or two ahead of us! Nope, the player eval screw up goes back to the year before, and given a year to come to our senses and see that the kid had no hands and no skills... that's pretty much the definition of same s**T, different year.
Here's a question for NCAA B-ball aficionados - if Vesely had come to the US as a freshman and played college ball, who would he be? An anorexic Miles Plumlee, maybe?
That's who we snagged with our #6 lottery pick last year.
Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread
- MF23
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread
Don't play Vesely for the next few games. Then give him a shot and see what he does. He needs to get a message and Wall should be back by then. That's what should be done with a player playing as bad as Vesely.
From my perspective I don't think Vesely has the confidence to play in the NBA. He looks like a different person compared to his Euro clips. It's too bad, I thought his confidence would be the one thing to project him when he was drafted.
From my perspective I don't think Vesely has the confidence to play in the NBA. He looks like a different person compared to his Euro clips. It's too bad, I thought his confidence would be the one thing to project him when he was drafted.
Et tu Bilas.
MD
MD
Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread
- Chocolate City Jordanaire
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Send Vesely to D-League -- A suggestion I have heard from others and agree with.
Hasheem Thabeet played a bit in the D-League after he was less-than-spectucular as the 2009, #2 overall pick.
OKC likes what they are getting from him now off their bench.
Hasheem Thabeet played a bit in the D-League after he was less-than-spectucular as the 2009, #2 overall pick.
OKC likes what they are getting from him now off their bench.
Bye bye Beal.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread
MF23 wrote:From my perspective I don't think Vesely has the confidence to play in the NBA. He looks like a different person compared to his Euro clips. It's too bad, I thought his confidence would be the one thing to project him when he was drafted.
Agreed. He's not the same guy he was across the pond. I also agree with CCJ that his performance is just screaming "send me to the D-League". But the WIz seem do not see any value in that. I know that was one thing I was hoping would change once Ted took over, that the team would begin to use the D-League more but it just hasn't happened.