ImageImageImageImageImage

ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O.F?

Moderators: 7 Footer, Duffman100, HiJiNX, niQ, Morris_Shatford, DG88, Reeko, lebron stopper

User avatar
sanity
RealGM
Posts: 17,550
And1: 1,812
Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#21 » by sanity » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:14 am

All are prime examples of wasted talent, either because of injuries, poor attitude or both.

I think Iverson probably deserves to get in, but I'm really iffy about Carter and McGrady, considering someone like Mitch Richmond who hasn't made it. Neither of those guys accomplished more than him.

I like Grant Hill, but in terms of what he brought to the game, no. He doesn't deserve to be in it if we're considering all-time greats, not just good guys.
User avatar
carlosey
General Manager
Posts: 9,088
And1: 2,051
Joined: Jul 14, 2001

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#22 » by carlosey » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:16 am

UN-Owen wrote:
carlosey wrote:Carter was the face of basketball for a good while there and no doubt helped the game grow. He is in.

AI was one of the best performers out there despite his personal problems.

Grant Hill was one of the greatest college ballers of all time.

Tmac and Sheed have no business being in this list.


I'm pretty sure McGrady lead the NBA in all-star voting on more than one occasion

Let's not turn this into a popularity contest


Sorry but Tmac was not what vince was for the game of basketball no matter how you put it. NBA fan balloting isnt considered for the basketball hall of fame.
User avatar
jigga_man
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,002
And1: 2,097
Joined: Jul 02, 2004
Location: ...breakfast table in an otherwise empty room
 

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#23 » by jigga_man » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:18 am

All of them yes.
User avatar
Vinsane15
Veteran
Posts: 2,734
And1: 21
Joined: Jan 13, 2008
Location: Tdot

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#24 » by Vinsane15 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:20 am

VC took our sorry a**franchise to basically one shot away from the ECF, and carried a bunch of scrubs. He should get in the HOF just because of that. And lol at Mitch Richmond, please he had no ever lasting impact like VC had(dunking, clutch shots, crazy shots, controversies ect). Plus Mitch only won a title being a 12th man on the Lakers.

VC, AI(most likely), and T-mac will get in. Grant Hill will too because of his college resume. I want 'Sheed to get in, but he comes up short.
User avatar
sanity
RealGM
Posts: 17,550
And1: 1,812
Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#25 » by sanity » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:23 am

Vinsane15 wrote:VC took our sorry a**franchise to basically one shot away from the ECF, and carried a bunch of scrubs. He should get in the HOF just because of that. And lol at Mitch Richmond, please he had no ever lasting impact like VC had(dunking, clutch shots, crazy shots, controversies ect). Plus Mitch only won a title being a 12th man on the Lakers.

VC, AI(most likely), and T-mac will get in. Grant Hill will too because of his college resume. I want 'Sheed to get in, but he comes up short.


So you're saying if Mitch Richmond won a few dunk contests you would consider him the equal of Carter? Yeah, and I LOL at the idea that bringing a team to the conference semis as a way of touting a player's playoffs success.
UN-Owen
Banned User
Posts: 2,990
And1: 409
Joined: Oct 13, 2011

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#26 » by UN-Owen » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:33 am

A healthy Grant Hill averaged 21 points, 8 boards and 7 assists per game while getting to the line 8 times a games
RaptorReloaded
Veteran
Posts: 2,645
And1: 970
Joined: Jan 23, 2008
     

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#27 » by RaptorReloaded » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:34 am

T-Mac's teams always choked come playoff time. VC is one of the better playoff preformers in NBA history despite not winning a title and missing the shot in Philly. Can't say the same for TMac.
pookeo9
Ballboy
Posts: 8
And1: 0
Joined: Dec 11, 2012

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#28 » by pookeo9 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:37 am

Like him or not, VC's a definite HOF'er.
User avatar
Homer Jay
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,494
And1: 674
Joined: Nov 30, 2003

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#29 » by Homer Jay » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:39 am

sanity wrote:
Vinsane15 wrote:VC took our sorry a**franchise to basically one shot away from the ECF, and carried a bunch of scrubs. He should get in the HOF just because of that. And lol at Mitch Richmond, please he had no ever lasting impact like VC had(dunking, clutch shots, crazy shots, controversies ect). Plus Mitch only won a title being a 12th man on the Lakers.

VC, AI(most likely), and T-mac will get in. Grant Hill will too because of his college resume. I want 'Sheed to get in, but he comes up short.


So you're saying if Mitch Richmond won a few dunk contests you would consider him the equal of Carter? Yeah, and I LOL at the idea that bringing a team to the conference semis as a way of touting a player's playoffs success.


The knock against Richmond is probably the lack of team success. The Kings made the playoffs only once in his 8 seasons there. Averaging 22 ppg on poor teams is not much of an accomplishment.
Image
User avatar
Vinsane15
Veteran
Posts: 2,734
And1: 21
Joined: Jan 13, 2008
Location: Tdot

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#30 » by Vinsane15 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:41 am

sanity wrote:
Vinsane15 wrote:VC took our sorry a**franchise to basically one shot away from the ECF, and carried a bunch of scrubs. He should get in the HOF just because of that. And lol at Mitch Richmond, please he had no ever lasting impact like VC had(dunking, clutch shots, crazy shots, controversies ect). Plus Mitch only won a title being a 12th man on the Lakers.

VC, AI(most likely), and T-mac will get in. Grant Hill will too because of his college resume. I want 'Sheed to get in, but he comes up short.


So you're saying if Mitch Richmond won a few dunk contests you would consider him the equal of Carter? Yeah, and I LOL at the idea that bringing a team to the conference semis as a way of touting a player's playoffs success.


Did I say that? I didn't even mention the dunk contest =/ . I also mentioned other reasons why VC had such an impact. Please tell me about Mitch and his ability to lead the Sac Kings to the lottery. Mitch will be rememberd for being traded for C-Webb, and igniting the Kings franchise to contenders.

Dunks did have an impact, everyone says VC is the best dunker. He is the best ever at something related to the game of basketball, thats something. I know VC didnt become MVP, and was robbed of all NBA from 05-07 with the Nets, but he deserves to be in.
User avatar
BallinOnUHomie
Senior
Posts: 537
And1: 300
Joined: Dec 11, 2012

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#31 » by BallinOnUHomie » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:48 am

A.I for sure and Vince is a toss up. Vince was a good player, not HOF caliber but hes easily one of the best dunkers in history . Being a good dunker is not enough to get a person into the HOF but Vince's in game dunks were revolutionary and that made him a great entertainer and easily the most exciting player of this era (post 2000). If he goes in, that should be the reason why. He was great for the NBA. If he doesnt, its because as a player he was good but never Great.

and Sheed? Wtf? LOL
Tryna spread love not hate. Doing my best to post with loving kindness, compassion, humility. Tryna post with respect, because if I disrespect others, I disrespect myself.


B.V - Lk,C,E,A

R.Sp. R.Int. N.Sland. N.Friv.
User avatar
galeon110
Analyst
Posts: 3,531
And1: 629
Joined: Jul 27, 2006
Location: Toronto

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#32 » by galeon110 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:49 am

lol Carter gets 3 Yes's but Grant Hill gets 4?? There goes all the credibility of this article, specifically Adande and Nowell
Image
User avatar
BallinOnUHomie
Senior
Posts: 537
And1: 300
Joined: Dec 11, 2012

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#33 » by BallinOnUHomie » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:52 am

Conclusively to add to my last post, I would put V.C in the HOF because he definetly left a positive mark on the NBA. Whether a real fan or fairweather fan, I doubt anyone who watched Vince play in his prime would forget him, he was way too exciting of a player.
Tryna spread love not hate. Doing my best to post with loving kindness, compassion, humility. Tryna post with respect, because if I disrespect others, I disrespect myself.


B.V - Lk,C,E,A

R.Sp. R.Int. N.Sland. N.Friv.
Waylon Mercy
Banned User
Posts: 12,346
And1: 6,644
Joined: Sep 08, 2010

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#34 » by Waylon Mercy » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:26 am

This potential Team Canada super team thats coming up the pipe line with Wiggins,
Kapongo, Thompson, Nicholson, Jospeh etc most of these guys if not all of them say Vince Carter
was the main reason they got into basketball and became Raptor fans.

We've seen Spain become a world power and fall in love with the game because of the Dream Team
playing in the 1992 Olympics in Barcelona it would be unprecedented to see a country become
a super power mostly on the influence of one player.

Thats what I think separates VC from a Mitch Richmond, T-Mac and a Chris Mullin (who's already in)...
I also think Iversons impact on the game culturally is a big x-factor for him. You could even argue
T-Macs huge impact on the Chinese market in his favor hell he might be even bigger then Yao lol
UN-Owen
Banned User
Posts: 2,990
And1: 409
Joined: Oct 13, 2011

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#35 » by UN-Owen » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:28 am

Homer Jay wrote:
sanity wrote:
Vinsane15 wrote:VC took our sorry a**franchise to basically one shot away from the ECF, and carried a bunch of scrubs. He should get in the HOF just because of that. And lol at Mitch Richmond, please he had no ever lasting impact like VC had(dunking, clutch shots, crazy shots, controversies ect). Plus Mitch only won a title being a 12th man on the Lakers.

VC, AI(most likely), and T-mac will get in. Grant Hill will too because of his college resume. I want 'Sheed to get in, but he comes up short.


So you're saying if Mitch Richmond won a few dunk contests you would consider him the equal of Carter? Yeah, and I LOL at the idea that bringing a team to the conference semis as a way of touting a player's playoffs success.


The knock against Richmond is probably the lack of team success. The Kings made the playoffs only once in his 8 seasons there. Averaging 22 ppg on poor teams is not much of an accomplishment.


I've never understood the argument that a lack of team success should affect how we should judge the talent/career of an individual player

21 PPG on .455% shooting is higher Kobe's (.454%) and Ray Allen's (.453%) career average

He also shot .388% from 3 and .85% from the line


The lack of surrounding talent means defenses would have focused almost exclusively on Richmond which makes his moderate efficiency all the more impressive


Iverson's career FG% is .425%
UN-Owen
Banned User
Posts: 2,990
And1: 409
Joined: Oct 13, 2011

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#36 » by UN-Owen » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:09 am

I only have one issue with Carter being elected

The laziest defensive player I've ever seen shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame
User avatar
dTox
RealGM
Posts: 15,262
And1: 15,487
Joined: Jan 26, 2007
Location: Basement
   

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#37 » by dTox » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:02 am

Answer/VC should definitely be in this, they made considerably more impact on the game then some of the other lame guys that managed to get in.
Image
TBZ for the win
User avatar
dTox
RealGM
Posts: 15,262
And1: 15,487
Joined: Jan 26, 2007
Location: Basement
   

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#38 » by dTox » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:04 am

I love Grant Hill and if he was healthy he probably would've been amongst the best of them (same goes for Carter) but he should not be in the NBA hall of fame.
Image
TBZ for the win
taimaishu
Banned User
Posts: 122
And1: 1
Joined: Jan 12, 2012

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#39 » by taimaishu » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:12 am

UN-Owen wrote:I only have one issue with Carter being elected

The laziest defensive player I've ever seen shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame


Err ask NJ, Orlando and Dallas how VC defended....He's become one of the more solid statistical defenders in the League (leads Dallas in charges, opponents shooting 36.3% against him etc.)
chuckerz
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,493
And1: 161
Joined: Jan 18, 2008

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#40 » by chuckerz » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:23 am

Grant Hill won 2 NCAA championships. The only other player to win a championship is Rasheed Wallace. the basketball hall of fame is not just the NBA hall of fame, but takes into account college basketball as well. As of now, he's one of the greatest basketball players Duke has ever produced. and being the winner of the nba sportsmanship award 3 times and being in an all nba team 6 times will definitely put him into the HOF

Allen iverson deserves to be there based on statistics alone and personal accolades. He willed his team to the NBA finals but lost to the Lakers. Iverson averaged 31.1 ppg that year and the second highest scoring player on that 76ers team was theo Ratlif at 12.4ppg

T-Mac chose personal glory over team success. Maybe being the 2 time scoring champ may propel him into the hall of fame but otherwise, there's really nothing else that should propel him into the HOF

Carter was one of the greatest dunkers ever. He made the slam dunk contest relevant after several years of stagnant dunk contests, he excited the crowds in an arena with his dunks and he helped put Toronto on the map in terms of basketball. His 20 000 plus points alone can put him into HOF talks.

Wallace was only a piece on a well rounded championship team. Besides getting lots of technicals, he wouldn't be remembered for anything else. No HOF

Return to Toronto Raptors