Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron

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Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron 

Post#161 » by hokageinfamus » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:21 pm

but he has put up 30+. he scored 31.5 ppg in his THIRD YEAR,


The year where almost every star player in the league had career highs in PPG because of the rule change?
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Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron 

Post#162 » by ShowTimeERA » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:50 pm

EscapoTHB wrote:
hokageinfamus wrote:
How do you account for the massive advantage Lebron displays at involving his teammates and the yawning chasm between the two in terms of playoff performance, then? And the more recent evolutions in Lebron's game?




Teams still dare Lebron to shoot 20 foot jumpers. He's improved greatly at mid-range shooting but teams still will let him take that shot. The same can't be said for Melo or Durant



They let him take the shot because they cant get up on him. He still makes the shot though. At a higher percentage than melo.

Lebron doesn't get enough credit for his shooting. He is better than both melo and Kobe with his j. But people act like he cant shoot. His midrange is automatic. And his 3 point shooting is also good for someone who is usually taking contested 3s.

Lebron is better than melo st everything but maybe free throws.
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Why would you even include Kobe? Kobe is old, barely gets any lift at this stage and has arthritis on his hands...Go back prior to 08, and its no question Kobe had a superior mid-range game and was a much better shooter than Lebron has ever been in his career thus far...
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Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron 

Post#163 » by tsherkin » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:57 pm

hokageinfamus wrote:The year where almost every star player in the league had career highs in PPG because of the rule change?


You know he's managed 10+ FTA/g twice since then, right? It wasn't just that season where he showed an ability to get to the line and he's even scored 30+ in another season since then: 30 in 07-08 and 29.7 two years later.

Repeatedly butting up against that average. Little different than the story you're trying to tell.
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Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron 

Post#164 » by hokageinfamus » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:22 pm

You know he's managed 10+ FTA/g twice since then, right? It wasn't just that season where he showed an ability to get to the line and he's even scored 30+ in another season since then: 30 in 07-08 and 29.7 two years later.

Repeatedly butting up against that average. Little different than the story you're trying to tell.


I wasn't questioning his ability to get to the line I was just commenting that almost every star player in that particular season was averaging career or near career highs in PPG and FTA
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Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron 

Post#165 » by King_John » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:43 pm

I think Kobe made this argument public on purpose. He knows LeBron is a beast and wants to diminish LeBron s value and boost Melo s Ego (whih isn t necessarily a good thing). But I love it. Now the media is going to hype Melo to no end and come playoff time LeBron is going to turn it on and show the world once again who is the best player (as he did with Durant last playoffs). Carmelo is having a sensational season so far no doubt. I just don t get it why people jump on everything to dismiss Lebron s offensive ability. The guy was regular season MVP, Finals MVP and won the Chip last year. Now Melo has a great start to the season and Kobe says he is more difficult to defend than Lebron and everyone goes like "Oh yeah ,ahem I always said Melo is the better than Lebron offensively and blablabla...."
We know you guys just wait to see LeBron fail again so you can feel better about yourself. Ain t gonna happen and for now let s defer the argument until they meet in the playoffs. I think LeBron has a say in this too by then.
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Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron 

Post#166 » by ShowTimeERA » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:08 am

King_John wrote:I think Kobe made this argument public on purpose. He knows LeBron is a beast and wants to diminish LeBron s value and boost Melo s Ego (whih isn t necessarily a good thing). But I love it. Now the media is going to hype Melo to no end and come playoff time LeBron is going to turn it on and show the world once again who is the best player (as he did with Durant last playoffs). Carmelo is having a sensational season so far no doubt. I just don t get it why people jump on everything to dismiss Lebron s offensive ability. The guy was regular season MVP, Finals MVP and won the Chip last year. Now Melo has a great start to the season and Kobe says he is more difficult to defend than Lebron and everyone goes like "Oh yeah ,ahem I always said Melo is the better than Lebron offensively and blablabla...."
We know you guys just wait to see LeBron fail again so you can feel better about yourself. Ain t gonna happen and for now let s defer the argument until they meet in the playoffs. I think LeBron has a say in this too by then.


Kobe has been saying Melo is the toughest player to defend since the summer Olympics in 08. Actually, Melo is the only player from the olympic squad who Kobe lost to in a 1-1 match.

If you have followed Kobe close enough, you would know that he respects and has a fascination with players who are complete offensive players. Also not to mention Kobe called Melo a "bull" all throughout the 09 WCF. This isn't something new to discredit Lebron although you may believe so because you may have an emotional attachment to Lebron. It's just Kobe's opinion in which he has been consistent with.
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Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron 

Post#167 » by Tien » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:17 am

I'd love to see Kobe guard LeBron 1v1 the next time they play.

LeBron would be able to back him down physically no problem.
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Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron 

Post#168 » by EscapoTHB » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:20 am

ShowTimeERA wrote:
King_John wrote:I think Kobe made this argument public on purpose. He knows LeBron is a beast and wants to diminish LeBron s value and boost Melo s Ego (whih isn t necessarily a good thing). But I love it. Now the media is going to hype Melo to no end and come playoff time LeBron is going to turn it on and show the world once again who is the best player (as he did with Durant last playoffs). Carmelo is having a sensational season so far no doubt. I just don t get it why people jump on everything to dismiss Lebron s offensive ability. The guy was regular season MVP, Finals MVP and won the Chip last year. Now Melo has a great start to the season and Kobe says he is more difficult to defend than Lebron and everyone goes like "Oh yeah ,ahem I always said Melo is the better than Lebron offensively and blablabla...."
We know you guys just wait to see LeBron fail again so you can feel better about yourself. Ain t gonna happen and for now let s defer the argument until they meet in the playoffs. I think LeBron has a say in this too by then.


Kobe has been saying Melo is the toughest player to defend since the summer Olympics in 08. Actually, Melo is the only player from the olympic squad who Kobe lost to in a 1-1 match.

If you have followed Kobe close enough, you would know that he respects and has a fascination with players who are complete offensive players. Also not to mention Kobe called Melo a "bull" all throughout the 09 WCF. This isn't something new to discredit Lebron although you may believe so because you may have an emotional attachment to Lebron. It's just Kobe's opinion in which he has been consistent with.


Kobe likes melo because melo has in the past had the same terrible shot selection as him.

Lets set aside lebron for a minute. How about durant? Durant is the kareem of perimeter players


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Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron 

Post#169 » by IG2 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:55 am

'Melo is no threat to Kobe. Far easier to praise him then a player who's peak everyone considers superior to Kobe's.
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Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron 

Post#170 » by tsherkin » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:40 am

hokageinfamus wrote:I wasn't questioning his ability to get to the line I was just commenting that almost every star player in that particular season was averaging career or near career highs in PPG and FTA


I realize, but it's a disparaging comment because it implies that it was only because it happened to be that season that Lebron was able to reach that level. Pointing out that he's drawn fouls at a comparable level in two seasons since then and that he's reached 30+ ppg since then AND 29.7 as well indicates that even as the rules changes have settled some, he's still proving capable of scoring at a level that Melo hasn't actually reached yet.
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Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron 

Post#171 » by kingkirk » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:44 am

IG2 wrote:'Melo is no threat to Kobe. Far easier to praise him then a player who's peak everyone considers superior to Kobe's.


I think this has more to do with the fact that Kobe see's more of himself in Carmelo and because they are close friends, than it does because of his 'fear' of the player Lebron has become.

Why is it only a shot at Lebron though?

Is it not more of a shot at Durant, who in my opinion, is on another level in terms of scoring ad production, even ahead of guys like Lebron, Kobe and Melo?
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Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron 

Post#172 » by IG2 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:48 am

KingCuban wrote:
Is it not more of a shot at Durant, who in my opinion, is on another level in terms of scoring ad production, even ahead of guys like Lebron, Kobe and Melo?


Because Durant's a threat too. Already beaten Kobe in the playoffs. Averages more ppg on far better efficiency every season. Has finished higher in the MVP race for a while too. 'Melo hasn't accomplished any of these things.
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Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron 

Post#173 » by kingkirk » Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:01 am

IG2 wrote:
KingCuban wrote:
Is it not more of a shot at Durant, who in my opinion, is on another level in terms of scoring ad production, even ahead of guys like Lebron, Kobe and Melo?


Because Durant's a threat too. Already beaten Kobe in the playoffs. Averages more ppg on far better efficiency every season. Has finished higher in the MVP race for a while too. 'Melo hasn't accomplished any of these things.


What threat though?

Every wing player in this league is still chasing Kobe in terms of career achievements, and to date, his 17th year in the NBA is at Durant levels of efficiency.

This was just a guy trying to public stand up for a friend, which is the second time he has done so given the negative perception towards Carmelo at times.

Nothing more, nothing less.
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Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron 

Post#174 » by kblo247 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:51 am

I wouldn't just classify Melo as a friend, Kobe refers to him as one of his three brothers outside Fisher and Odom. He has more respect for Melo than most in the league because Melo earned it and as he said years ago when he was being criticized, he saw a good bit of himself in him. It doesn't hurt that Melo has a scorer mentality first like himself either.

I down think there's anyone saying Melo is better than Bron, I'm not as an overall player. I'm saying Melo sis the more relentless scorer, which has got him and Kobe at times labeled as checkers. Melo will keep coming at you even if he's 0-20 because he expects the next one to fall. Bron for long stretches of his career would be afraid to shoot late or hesitate on free throws after missing for stretches, and that limits him because he effectively defends himself.
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Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron 

Post#175 » by orangeparka » Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:38 am

kblo247 wrote:I wouldn't just classify Melo as a friend, Kobe refers to him as one of his three brothers outside Fisher and Odom. He has more respect for Melo than most in the league because Melo earned it and as he said years ago when he was being criticized, he saw a good bit of himself in him. It doesn't hurt that Melo has a scorer mentality first like himself either.

I down think there's anyone saying Melo is better than Bron, I'm not as an overall player. I'm saying Melo sis the more relentless scorer, which has got him and Kobe at times labeled as checkers. Melo will keep coming at you even if he's 0-20 because he expects the next one to fall. Bron for long stretches of his career would be afraid to shoot late or hesitate on free throws after missing for stretches, and that limits him because he effectively defends himself.


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Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron 

Post#176 » by bbms » Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:42 am

KingCuban wrote:
IG2 wrote:
KingCuban wrote:
Is it not more of a shot at Durant, who in my opinion, is on another level in terms of scoring ad production, even ahead of guys like Lebron, Kobe and Melo?


Because Durant's a threat too. Already beaten Kobe in the playoffs. Averages more ppg on far better efficiency every season. Has finished higher in the MVP race for a while too. 'Melo hasn't accomplished any of these things.


What threat though?

Every wing player in this league is still chasing Kobe in terms of career achievements, and to date, his 17th year in the NBA is at Durant levels of efficiency.

This was just a guy trying to public stand up for a friend, which is the second time he has done so given the negative perception towards Carmelo at times.

Nothing more, nothing less.


No, Kobe's 17th is not at Durant level of efficiency. Kobe's TS is at 61%, Durant is at 64%. Kobe's eFG is at 53%, Durant is at 55%. Not an ocean between them, but that's a clear gap. Also Durant has consistency on Kobe. You almost never see Durant going 5/15, or 8/22, or this kind of games. Then you account turnovers...

Also, you say like it's any demerit from Durant if he were on Kobe's 17th season level on efficiency. This is the best shooting season Kobe Bryant ever had until now.

I agree with you. Kobe's more identified with Melo than with LeBron or Durant, so he'll always have an opinion towards melo. But I don't agree. Melo has a nice array of movements on the half court. A better polished isolation game, post moves, go-to moves, but his shot selection and ball-stopping traits in his carreer couldn't translate that into being a more efficient player than LeBron and Durant, so I find this meaningless in comparison against LeBron and Durant. Both are better scorers now and Kobe is probably better too.
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Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron 

Post#177 » by EscapoTHB » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:10 am

kblo247 wrote:I wouldn't just classify Melo as a friend, Kobe refers to him as one of his three brothers outside Fisher and Odom. He has more respect for Melo than most in the league because Melo earned it and as he said years ago when he was being criticized, he saw a good bit of himself in him. It doesn't hurt that Melo has a scorer mentality first like himself either.

I down think there's anyone saying Melo is better than Bron, I'm not as an overall player. I'm saying Melo sis the more relentless scorer, which has got him and Kobe at times labeled as checkers. Melo will keep coming at you even if he's 0-20 because he expects the next one to fall. Bron for long stretches of his career would be afraid to shoot late or hesitate on free throws after missing for stretches, and that limits him because he effectively defends himself.


I'm sure if you asked him who the best player in the league was after himself of course he'd list at least 3 guys ahead of lebron or durant. Kobe knows who his real competition is. He wouldn't talk up melo if he actually respected him.

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Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron 

Post#178 » by EscapoTHB » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:12 am

Also how tight is melo actually with Kobe? He seems closer to cp3 wade lebron and that crew. Did Kobe even get invited to his wedding?

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Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron 

Post#179 » by gethigh » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:17 am

EscapoTHB wrote:Also how tight is melo actually with Kobe? He seems closer to cp3 wade lebron and that crew. Did Kobe even get invited to his wedding?

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Kobe is kind of a lone wolf type guy, doesn't really go in with those cliques and circles. Him not attending Melo's wedding doesn't mean he isn't a close friend. Pretty sure at some point I've heard Kobe call Melo his little brother. Not sure though don't quote me on that.
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Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron 

Post#180 » by RatherUnique » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:55 am

tsherkin wrote: diversity isn't the same as effectiveness and versatility in method doesn't mean much if the end result isn't superior.

this is what people don't seem to be comprehending.

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