ImageImageImageImage

Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.)

Moderators: UCF, Knightro, Howard Mass, UCFJayBird, Def Swami, ChosenSavior, SOUL

Nyce_1
RealGM
Posts: 12,678
And1: 5,970
Joined: Jun 29, 2009
Location: Tampa
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#181 » by Nyce_1 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:42 pm

Guys, we're 2.5 games back of 8th place. We can make the playoffs. Gotta get and stay healthy. We're chasing down the Pacers and 76'ers.
User avatar
MagicTownBaller
Veteran
Posts: 2,652
And1: 404
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Kingsport. TN
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#182 » by MagicTownBaller » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:42 pm

Bensational wrote:i wonder if we'll look to get involved in a 3-way s&t this summer?

let's say Washington decide they want to add Al Jefferson to their team, but Utah don't want to take back any of their trash. maybe we could swing a deal of:

UTA: TPE
WAS: Jefferson
ORL: Okafor + WAS 2012 1st round pick

would depend on how highly everyone values the picks this year, which isn't very high, IMO, and which makes it more likely a team like Washington opt for a veteran.

doesn't have to apply to Washington, either. could apply to a bunch of teams.

The only way I would do that deal is if the draft pick is unprotected.
Not changing this Sig until the Orlando Magic win a championship (Technically Started 1-30-08)
User avatar
Cigamodnalro
RealGM
Posts: 12,371
And1: 66
Joined: Apr 10, 2006
Location: Political Asylum

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#183 » by Cigamodnalro » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:59 pm

Could Gerald Henderson be a viable trade target? Young SG with great shooting percentages who is up for RFA this offseason. Bobcats are (see Wiretap) looking to move him for value. I can't imagine his trade value is super high, and he'd be a great fit on this team especially if we move one of Redick or Afflalo before the deadline.
https://twitter.com/cigamodnalro
“A house pulled down is half rebuilt” - Ancient Proverb
"There's beauty in the breakdown" - Frou Frou
"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees" - Jason Kidd
User avatar
Cigamodnalro
RealGM
Posts: 12,371
And1: 66
Joined: Apr 10, 2006
Location: Political Asylum

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#184 » by Cigamodnalro » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:01 pm

BBD/Ayon/McRoberts(EXP) for Henderson/Diop(EXP) works in trade checker ;)
https://twitter.com/cigamodnalro
“A house pulled down is half rebuilt” - Ancient Proverb
"There's beauty in the breakdown" - Frou Frou
"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees" - Jason Kidd
User avatar
Cigamodnalro
RealGM
Posts: 12,371
And1: 66
Joined: Apr 10, 2006
Location: Political Asylum

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#185 » by Cigamodnalro » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:07 pm

If any of you stat oriented guys are interested, this is pretty fun. http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v2 ... ms1580.pdf
https://twitter.com/cigamodnalro
“A house pulled down is half rebuilt” - Ancient Proverb
"There's beauty in the breakdown" - Frou Frou
"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees" - Jason Kidd
User avatar
MoMM
RealGM
Posts: 10,405
And1: 1,714
Joined: Jan 08, 2002
Location: Brazilian in Barcelona
Contact:
       

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX 

Post#186 » by MoMM » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:25 pm

Nyce_1 wrote:Guys, we're 2.5 games back of 8th place. We can make the playoffs. Gotta get and stay healthy. We're chasing down the Pacers and 76'ers.

And it is good? :roll:
User avatar
Cigamodnalro
RealGM
Posts: 12,371
And1: 66
Joined: Apr 10, 2006
Location: Political Asylum

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX 

Post#187 » by Cigamodnalro » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:30 pm

MoMM wrote:
Nyce_1 wrote:Guys, we're 2.5 games back of 8th place. We can make the playoffs. Gotta get and stay healthy. We're chasing down the Pacers and 76'ers.

And it is good? :roll:

Sort of agree. Just missing the playoffs is about the worst possible thing we could do this season, record-wise. Mediocrity is not a victory, and riding our veterans to the twelfth seed is just slowing progress and mitigating our ability to rebuild into a team that can contend.
https://twitter.com/cigamodnalro
“A house pulled down is half rebuilt” - Ancient Proverb
"There's beauty in the breakdown" - Frou Frou
"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees" - Jason Kidd
RickB-Orlando
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,831
And1: 1,336
Joined: Apr 30, 2008
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX 

Post#188 » by RickB-Orlando » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:07 pm

MoMM wrote:
Nyce_1 wrote:Guys, we're 2.5 games back of 8th place. We can make the playoffs. Gotta get and stay healthy. We're chasing down the Pacers and 76'ers.

And it is good? :roll:

Given the low quality in this years draft, sure. Even the projected number one picks are borderline starters at best.

Besides, I always root for the team to win. Build through trades and fee agency. The draft is almost always a crapshoot.
User avatar
thelead
RealGM
Posts: 39,831
And1: 25,203
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX 

Post#189 » by thelead » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:14 pm

RickB-Orlando wrote:
MoMM wrote:
Nyce_1 wrote:Guys, we're 2.5 games back of 8th place. We can make the playoffs. Gotta get and stay healthy. We're chasing down the Pacers and 76'ers.

And it is good? :roll:

Given the low quality in this years draft, sure. Even the projected number one picks are borderline starters at best.

Besides, I always root for the team to win. Build through trades and fee agency. The draft is almost always a crapshoot.


There are quality starter's in this year's draft (maybe not stars but you never know either). It's not like we couldn't use a quality player...
Image
User avatar
MagicTownBaller
Veteran
Posts: 2,652
And1: 404
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Kingsport. TN
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#190 » by MagicTownBaller » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:24 pm

Cigamodnalro wrote:BBD/Ayon/McRoberts(EXP) for Henderson/Diop(EXP) works in trade checker ;)

I would hate to give up Big Baby, as he has turned into one of my favorite Magic players, but I would do that trade in a heartbeat to get Andrew Nicholson some more playing time and give him the possibility to start and get some cap space in this coming free agency. The only problem, is there isn't a lot of good players in this upcoming free agency. I think I would rather trade for Tyreke Evans and see if he can turn it around on our team.
Not changing this Sig until the Orlando Magic win a championship (Technically Started 1-30-08)
User avatar
Cigamodnalro
RealGM
Posts: 12,371
And1: 66
Joined: Apr 10, 2006
Location: Political Asylum

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX 

Post#191 » by Cigamodnalro » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:26 pm

thelead wrote:There are quality starter's in this year's draft (maybe not stars but you never know either). It's not like we couldn't use a quality player...


It really comes down to whether or not you can bare to lose a ton of games in the present to theoretically win a lot more in the future. Some fans would rather be mediocre or above-average (ie 8th seed) for five years than suck for 3.5 and compete for the last 1.5. It just depends on how patient people are, I guess. And "immediate gratification" is the name of the game for so much in contemporary life.

Personally, I'd rather bottom out and come back stronger, ideally with a legitimate chance at winning a championship, than be stuck as a fringe playoff team for the next half decade or longer. There is NO spot in the NBA worse than the middle. Top, you're competing for a championship. Bottom, you're competing for a top pick and the hope of improving through addition and development. Middle you're competing for nothing. And that's where we currently are, smack-dab in the middle.

I'd hope to grow through prudent FA signings, but you can't really do that anymore either. The CBA and disregard for sustainable team building ruined that. Look at the best teams. OKC, Draft. Spurs, draft. Clippers, draft (Gordon, turned into Paul). Atlanta, draft. Miami, questionable circumstances (LeBron), Knicks, New York. As a small market team, we're not going to get Carmelo or LeBron by virtue of our location. We need to draft really, really well, and fill in the gaps via free agency (like the Spurs do). Middling out doesn't get us there, or at least not nearly as easily. I don't want a Bobcats 8-win kind of season, but I'd hope and expect to be a bottom 5 team for the next couple of years.
https://twitter.com/cigamodnalro
“A house pulled down is half rebuilt” - Ancient Proverb
"There's beauty in the breakdown" - Frou Frou
"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees" - Jason Kidd
User avatar
tiderulz
RealGM
Posts: 35,502
And1: 14,079
Joined: Jun 16, 2010
Location: Atlanta
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#192 » by tiderulz » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:36 pm

Cigamodnalro wrote:Could Gerald Henderson be a viable trade target? Young SG with great shooting percentages who is up for RFA this offseason. Bobcats are (see Wiretap) looking to move him for value. I can't imagine his trade value is super high, and he'd be a great fit on this team especially if we move one of Redick or Afflalo before the deadline.


I would take a flyer on him. good defense, seems like a good soldier and solid player. And even though he is 6'5 (good for a SG) he has a 6'10 wingspan which could help him play spot minutes at SF. He is supposedly pretty good in iso and doesnt turn the ball over much. If Charlotte doesnt want him, I would get him
User avatar
thelead
RealGM
Posts: 39,831
And1: 25,203
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX 

Post#193 » by thelead » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:57 pm

Cigamodnalro wrote:
thelead wrote:There are quality starter's in this year's draft (maybe not stars but you never know either). It's not like we couldn't use a quality player...


It really comes down to whether or not you can bare to lose a ton of games in the present to theoretically win a lot more in the future. Some fans would rather be mediocre or above-average (ie 8th seed) for five years than suck for 3.5 and compete for the last 1.5. It just depends on how patient people are, I guess. And "immediate gratification" is the name of the game for so much in contemporary life.

Personally, I'd rather bottom out and come back stronger, ideally with a legitimate chance at winning a championship, than be stuck as a fringe playoff team for the next half decade or longer. There is NO spot in the NBA worse than the middle. Top, you're competing for a championship. Bottom, you're competing for a top pick and the hope of improving through addition and development. Middle you're competing for nothing. And that's where we currently are, smack-dab in the middle.

I'd hope to grow through prudent FA signings, but you can't really do that anymore either. The CBA and disregard for sustainable team building ruined that. Look at the best teams. OKC, Draft. Spurs, draft. Clippers, draft (Gordon, turned into Paul). Atlanta, draft. Miami, questionable circumstances (LeBron), Knicks, New York. As a small market team, we're not going to get Carmelo or LeBron by virtue of our location. We need to draft really, really well, and fill in the gaps via free agency (like the Spurs do). Middling out doesn't get us there, or at least not nearly as easily. I don't want a Bobcats 8-win kind of season, but I'd hope and expect to be a bottom 5 team for the next couple of years.


Agreed 100%. Patience is needed and while a losing culture is not a good thing, drafting stars is. We need to be in positions to draft well and become more flexible with our cap. Winning 38 games next year does us no good when you have the quality of talent in that 2014 draft. What are the "winning culture" guys going to say next year? We don't need Wiggins (or Parker) we have BBD??? :lol:
Image
OrlChamps2030
General Manager
Posts: 7,718
And1: 4,138
Joined: Jul 18, 2009
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX 

Post#194 » by OrlChamps2030 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:08 pm

Cigamodnalro wrote:
MoMM wrote:
Nyce_1 wrote:Guys, we're 2.5 games back of 8th place. We can make the playoffs. Gotta get and stay healthy. We're chasing down the Pacers and 76'ers.

And it is good? :roll:

Sort of agree. Just missing the playoffs is about the worst possible thing we could do this season, record-wise. Mediocrity is not a victory, and riding our veterans to the twelfth seed is just slowing progress and mitigating our ability to rebuild into a team that can contend.


So what do you think about Harkless, Nicholson, and Vucevic being drafted late in the first? They were drafted on mediocore/playoff teams.
OrlChamps2030
General Manager
Posts: 7,718
And1: 4,138
Joined: Jul 18, 2009
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX 

Post#195 » by OrlChamps2030 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:13 pm

Cigamodnalro wrote:
thelead wrote:There are quality starter's in this year's draft (maybe not stars but you never know either). It's not like we couldn't use a quality player...


It really comes down to whether or not you can bare to lose a ton of games in the present to theoretically win a lot more in the future. Some fans would rather be mediocre or above-average (ie 8th seed) for five years than suck for 3.5 and compete for the last 1.5. It just depends on how patient people are, I guess. And "immediate gratification" is the name of the game for so much in contemporary life.

Personally, I'd rather bottom out and come back stronger, ideally with a legitimate chance at winning a championship, than be stuck as a fringe playoff team for the next half decade or longer. There is NO spot in the NBA worse than the middle. Top, you're competing for a championship. Bottom, you're competing for a top pick and the hope of improving through addition and development. Middle you're competing for nothing. And that's where we currently are, smack-dab in the middle.

I'd hope to grow through prudent FA signings, but you can't really do that anymore either. The CBA and disregard for sustainable team building ruined that. Look at the best teams. OKC, Draft. Spurs, draft. Clippers, draft (Gordon, turned into Paul). Atlanta, draft. Miami, questionable circumstances (LeBron), Knicks, New York. As a small market team, we're not going to get Carmelo or LeBron by virtue of our location. We need to draft really, really well, and fill in the gaps via free agency (like the Spurs do). Middling out doesn't get us there, or at least not nearly as easily. I don't want a Bobcats 8-win kind of season, but I'd hope and expect to be a bottom 5 team for the next couple of years.


My problem with the tanking guys is that you guys assume that every team that "hits bottom" bounces back up to the top. They don't. If you're okay with tanking for 3.5 years then you have to be okay with running into some roadbumps and the tanking period extending several years.. All I know is I would rather be the Jazz, Hawks, or Nuggets than the Wizards, Raptors, or Pistons.

Way too many variables in tanking that are out of the front office's control for my liking. There is a risk in tanking like there is a risk in every other single rebuild plan out there.
User avatar
thelead
RealGM
Posts: 39,831
And1: 25,203
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX 

Post#196 » by thelead » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:22 pm

Zmill wrote:So what do you think about Harkless, Nicholson, and Vucevic being drafted late in the first? They were drafted on mediocore/playoff teams.


So those guys are going to lead us to a championship? Adding another one of those guys isn't going to get us there either. Now, drafting the next Durant or LeBron might. Unless, of course, you think we can sign Durant or LeBron. Then I'm all for your plan.
Image
OrlChamps2030
General Manager
Posts: 7,718
And1: 4,138
Joined: Jul 18, 2009
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX 

Post#197 » by OrlChamps2030 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:37 pm

thelead wrote:
Zmill wrote:So what do you think about Harkless, Nicholson, and Vucevic being drafted late in the first? They were drafted on mediocore/playoff teams.


So those guys are going to lead us to a championship? Adding another one of those guys isn't going to get us there either. Now, drafting the next Durant or LeBron might. Unless, of course, you think we can sign Durant or LeBron. Then I'm all for your plan.


So you found a plan that ensures a team to get the #1 pic? You should have sent your resume to MJ last year, he probably would have paid you millions.

Have there not been plenty of all-stars drafted after the top 10?

And I am curious - in the past 10-15 years outside of the Thunder what teams have successfully became championship contenders after tanking for a few years? I don't know the answer to this question, I am just wondering if you can answer it for me. I'm curious.
User avatar
toquito
Pro Prospect
Posts: 777
And1: 48
Joined: Feb 18, 2011

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX 

Post#198 » by toquito » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:50 pm

thelead wrote:
Zmill wrote:So what do you think about Harkless, Nicholson, and Vucevic being drafted late in the first? They were drafted on mediocore/playoff teams.


So those guys are going to lead us to a championship? Adding another one of those guys isn't going to get us there either. Now, drafting the next Durant or LeBron might. Unless, of course, you think we can sign Durant or LeBron. Then I'm all for your plan.

I gotta disagree chips can be had with late round talent(or at least trading them) and the Celtics proved that IMO.
MagicFan32
RealGM
Posts: 14,953
And1: 790
Joined: Jun 13, 2004
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX 

Post#199 » by MagicFan32 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:57 pm

Nyce_1 wrote:Guys, we're 2.5 games back of 8th place. We can make the playoffs. Gotta get and stay healthy. We're chasing down the Pacers and 76'ers.

I really don't want to be embarrassed by the Knicks or Heat, unless we can use the TPE to add a star being an 8th seed is neither good, nor bad for us.

now if we made some trades and acquired more young talent and made the playoffs, then that would be a positive
aol4532 on bill russell
I think if you put McGee back then, he would get those blocks just as easily as Russell did. Russell's athleticism was well ahead of the players of his time, and that's about it.
User avatar
KillMonger
RealGM
Posts: 17,725
And1: 9,854
Joined: Oct 13, 2012
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#200 » by KillMonger » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:06 pm

I think the key is flexibility, i believe with the moves Henny made he gave us some flexibility to do some damage in both the Draft and Free Agency. When it comes to the Draft though it's all about scouting, if your scouting department is good enough you can find talent anywhere:

Tony Parker
Manu Ginobli
Rashard Lewis
Monta Ellis
Micheal Redd
Gilbert Arenas
Mehmet Okur
Carlos Boozer
Luis Scola
Marcin Gortat
Paul Milsap
Marc Gasol

All those players are/were late first to second round picks and those guys have talent whether they are balling currently or years ago when in their prime. The talent is there for the taking but scouting is key, hopefully Henny takes it more seriously than Otis did.
Image

Return to Orlando Magic