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What Exactly Is The Issue?

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Re: Kobe failing as a leader and destroying Lakers confidenc 

Post#101 » by IamBBAnalysis » Thu Jan 3, 2013 10:34 pm

Aki wrote:hungry vets the lakers are not.

except nash, he's awfully hungry


Hungry is a good word. Does anyone look hungry to win? Maybe Artest? Nash may be...but he just back from injury so not sure. Hill looks hungry. Kobe seems to be taking this season a little "lightly" so far team wise. Howard/Gasol too.
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Re: Kobe failing as a leader and destroying Lakers confidenc 

Post#102 » by Run-MKE 311 » Thu Jan 3, 2013 10:40 pm

I really was not upset about this, Kobe is lashing out because he is confused, unsure of how to fix what is wrong.

Personally I believe he realizes that they just are not that good, the bench stinks and they play zero defense. The defensive side of things is simply a matter of effort, sure youth helps, but you have to "want" to play defense.

The Lakers have just glided through the season so far, there does not seem to be any real motivation or challenge helping to get them fired up each night.

I still believe they will find a way to start winning, but the personal is just not nearly as good as other teams.
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Re: What Exactly Is The Issue? 

Post#103 » by Run-MKE 311 » Thu Jan 3, 2013 10:53 pm

The issue for me is that the Lakers just are not very good, the pieces looked great on paper but have not translated. Perhaps they have a lousy fit with Coach D and his guys as well, whatever it is, is not working.
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Re: Kobe failing as a leader and destroying Lakers confidenc 

Post#104 » by IamBBAnalysis » Thu Jan 3, 2013 11:00 pm

GeneralNash wrote:I'm really not knocking Kobe overall, it's just his lack of leadership. I don't hear about desperate team meetings, emergency team meetings, and players crying in the locker room. That Miami Heat team in their first year were crying like babies in that locker room, and that's what the Lakers need to do. This team lacks cohesion, and that has to be a big part of Kobe's fault. The way things are going they need to start having private players meeting before every game.

It is a question of how Kobe can get his teammates on another level, emotionally, mentally, etc. Kobe obviously can get himself on that level, but he can't seem to transfer it to his team. And it doesn't just fall on Kobe, part of the blame goes to Nash. Kobe, Nash, and Dwight have to get together and figure it out. Have a team BBQ, do some team bonding, talk it out, do something besides half-assing games everyone knows they should win.


I agree its odd you don't hear about player only meetings and more about the players trying to work things out. But maybe they are and we don't know?

I don't think you blame Kobe. Might as well blame Dwight or Nash too. They are all stars that have led their own team. Each one of them is capable of leadership.

Let's not fool ourselves. The team is dysfunctional. They are not on the same page and don't play for one another. That has to change. I have seen signs though since Nash has gotten back. But it cannot all be fixed at once. The team "almost comically this late into the season" is just feeling each other out.
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Re: Kobe failing as a leader and destroying Lakers confidenc 

Post#105 » by IamBBAnalysis » Thu Jan 3, 2013 11:03 pm

Run-MKE 311 wrote:I

Personally I believe he realizes that they just are not that good, the bench stinks and they play zero defense.


I have seen people say this a bit more lately and I couldn't disagree more. They lose because they lack chemistry, play with less effort then other teams, and think they can walk out and win. It has nothing to do with how good they are, age, or talent. Nothing.
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Re: Kobe failing as a leader and destroying Lakers confidenc 

Post#106 » by ennui » Thu Jan 3, 2013 11:40 pm

This thread is asscheeks.
C'mon, you apes! You wanna live forever?
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Re: Kobe failing as a leader and destroying Lakers confidenc 

Post#107 » by what would jack bauer do? » Fri Jan 4, 2013 3:18 am

Yeah the world's not ending, Lakers don't need to go into panic mode. They've won what 5 out of 7? We ain't gonna go cry in the locker room like the heat. Give Nash and d12 some time to get healthy. We'll be fine.
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Re: Kobe failing as a leader and destroying Lakers confidenc 

Post#108 » by D Nice » Fri Jan 4, 2013 3:54 am

What a terrible post. Your lack of understanding is incredible. That, combined with your join date and avatar, makes it pretty clear you're lying in the OP, and are merely a Sun surrogate gritting your teeth and cheering for this team so your boy get's a ring. :lol:

Can't believe some of you guys are engaging this trash on an intellectual level. It's ridiculous.
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Re: Kobe failing as a leader and destroying Lakers confidenc 

Post#109 » by doozyj » Fri Jan 4, 2013 4:14 am

Kobe has been nothing but amazing, last time I checked D'Antoni is the coach of this team not Kobe. Kobe is doing everything he is being asked to in Mikes overall system. Blame Mike if anything.
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Re: Kobe failing as a leader and destroying Lakers confidenc 

Post#110 » by GeneralNash » Fri Jan 4, 2013 4:30 am

D Nice wrote:What a terrible post. Your lack of understanding is incredible. That, combined with your join date and avatar, makes it pretty clear you're lying in the OP, and are merely a Sun surrogate gritting your teeth and cheering for this team so your boy get's a ring. :lol:

Can't believe some of you guys are engaging this trash on an intellectual level. It's ridiculous.


No it's you that don't understand. Here are some facts:

""In the 31 years since the 1980 season, the NBA championship has been won by one of the two No. 1 seeds 23 times, or 74 percent of the time. Of those, it has been won by the No. 1 overall team 15 times, or 48 percent.

In the other nine Finals, five were won by a two seed, three by a three seed and only one team has won with lower than a three seed. That distinction goes to the 1995 Houston Rockets, who won with a six seed."

This team lacks passion and emotion. James worthy says it all the time, and he's right. I watch every game on Time Warner Cable. What's to understand except they are losing to teams they are far better than, as is with injuries? What's to understand when they decide not to play defense and give half-ass efforts? I've watched every game. It has to start with leadership and each individual being accountable. Kobe says it's HIS team so why can't we keep him accountable for spewing crap to the media or not elevating his teammates to his level? If he can't lead then maybe Nash should start taking over as the vocal leader...but he can't do that because then feelings and egos would be hurt right?

What I see is a bunch of laid back attitudes on the court, not giving 100%. It's like they are in cruise control. If you want to contend you have to be a top 3 seed or above for a realistic shot...the stats and history prove this. That means they have to start winning now, and have some 8-10 game win streak stretches to get into that top 3 seed bracket. You can say you are "built for the playoffs" but what then when you are 6th seed and are down 0-2 in the first round because you don't have home court advantage.

I tell you what, it is panic mode if this team plans to realistically contend for a ring.

If they just want to make the playoffs...then it's not panic mode as you state. I for one believed this team wanted to be contenders.
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Re: Kobe failing as a leader and destroying Lakers confidenc 

Post#111 » by D Nice » Fri Jan 4, 2013 4:46 am

Perhaps you don't see the ridiculous chasm of separation that exists between the points you are making and the evidence you are referencing. You took misconception to an entirely new level regarding Kobe's quote. The rest of your "evidence" is subjective conjecture. It's not evidence at all. It's one Kobe-hater misappropriating blame on his leadership because you can't fall back on the standard indictments of his shooting efficiency.
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Re: Kobe failing as a leader and destroying Lakers confidenc 

Post#112 » by KB24TBOTB » Fri Jan 4, 2013 6:40 am

D Nice wrote:Perhaps you don't see the ridiculous chasm of separation that exists between the points you are making and the evidence you are referencing. You took misconception to an entirely new level regarding Kobe's quote. The rest of your "evidence" is subjective conjecture. It's not evidence at all. It's one Kobe-hater misappropriating blame on his leadership because you can't fall back on the standard indictments of his shooting efficiency.

The stuff he points out is true though, a good leader would be able to motivate his team and set a tone. This team struggles on defense like crazy and starts from Kobe. Sure Howard should be anchoring the defense but Kobe doesn't even try what so ever on that end. He fails to set a tone on that end of the floor and then instead of getting his team going he goes into hero mode. It can look pretty but it also stagnates the team and as a result we have no off the ball movement what so ever. As a leader, along with Nash he has failed to motivate this team hence why they come out flat almost every other game which has led to many loses already.

There is no reason to call him out as a band wagoner because he is voicing his opinion. Believe it or not, even Kobe has flaws
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Re: What Exactly Is The Issue? 

Post#113 » by EnigmaticProblem » Fri Jan 4, 2013 1:51 pm

tenten wrote:The issue is Howard.

He's no where near his Orlando days, heck, he's no where near last year's Bynum.
not talking about stats, but how many times you see him get the ball in the paint and turn the ball over?
His bball IQ is way below average and seem to have gotten worse.

Pau always have up and downs and Kobe is Kobe. Nash was hurt most of the times. So I will point most of this Laker mess on Dwight not close to meeting expectation. If you're hurt, then don't even play. I see we win more games with Pau and Hill getting starter minutes.

Dwight Howard is far from being the primary issue. Bynum averaged 2.5 TOs per game last year; Howard's averaging 3.2 this year. Do you really think that an additional turnover per game is costing them Ws?

The suggestion that Dwight shouldn't play if he's hurt is an absolutely ridiculous one. When dealing with disc herniations, sciatica, and back issues in general, after strengthening your core, the agreeable method of regaining your prior physical form is to marginally, but continuously, increase your physical activity. In short, he's going to have to play himself back to full form. If Dwight weren't playing, we'd have lost a lot more games, hombre.

P.S., Dwight playing as he is at the moment is still better than any other center in the league. He's still, at the very least, a top 30 player.
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Re: What Exactly Is The Issue? 

Post#114 » by Gek » Fri Jan 4, 2013 1:57 pm

EnigmaticProblem wrote:Dwight Howard is far from being the primary issue. Bynum averaged 2.5 TOs per game last year; Howard's averaging 3.2 this year. Do you really think that an additional turnover per game is costing them Ws?


We average 102 ppg and our opponents average 100 ppg, so yes, 1 TO could cost us W's.

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Re: What Exactly Is The Issue? 

Post#115 » by EnigmaticProblem » Fri Jan 4, 2013 2:17 pm

Saying absurd things for the sake of being absurd? Cool.

Do you consider a bad shot to be the equivalent of a turnover? This team is taking far too many horrible shots for us to be complaining about Howard averaging 0.7 more turnovers per game than Bynum.

P.S., Dwight has averaged this many turnovers for his entire career. Were people expecting that number to suddenly drop? Moreover, it hasn't been the cause of Orlando's failures in the past; I highly doubt Dwight is our team's primary concern.
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Re: Kobe failing as a leader and destroying Lakers confidenc 

Post#116 » by IamBBAnalysis » Fri Jan 4, 2013 6:35 pm

When you think about the team its not hard to understand that they are lacking identity and leadership. Let's look at some of the things that play into that:

1) New Coach running a whole new philosophy. With no training camp.
-Many players are used to Phil Jackson and winning championships. No wonder some might not "buy in".
-Does D'Antonni really have the strength of personality and will for this team of stars?

2) They still have coaches around from the old coaching staff.
-Do these guys even buy into D'Antonni? This is a weird situation. Is this good for team unity?

3) Howard and Nash were clear leader's of their respective team's last year. This year they are not...and Kobe is clearly the leader.
-There is no way they know how and when to voice their opinions or take a leadership role.

4) Players seem "thrown together" this year and are not a team that has been built up together.

5) Gasol thought he was traded and is worried about his role now.
-How devoted to the team is he?

6) Jamison and Hill question their roles on the team.

7) Players have been out with injury and need time to play together.
-Some players may not be at their best still...especially Howard and Gasol.
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Re: Kobe failing as a leader and destroying Lakers confidenc 

Post#117 » by leeprettyp » Fri Jan 4, 2013 6:40 pm

KB24TBOTB wrote:
D Nice wrote:Perhaps you don't see the ridiculous chasm of separation that exists between the points you are making and the evidence you are referencing. You took misconception to an entirely new level regarding Kobe's quote. The rest of your "evidence" is subjective conjecture. It's not evidence at all. It's one Kobe-hater misappropriating blame on his leadership because you can't fall back on the standard indictments of his shooting efficiency.

The stuff he points out is true though, a good leader would be able to motivate his team and set a tone. This team struggles on defense like crazy and starts from Kobe. Sure Howard should be anchoring the defense but Kobe doesn't even try what so ever on that end. He fails to set a tone on that end of the floor and then instead of getting his team going he goes into hero mode. It can look pretty but it also stagnates the team and as a result we have no off the ball movement what so ever. As a leader, along with Nash he has failed to motivate this team hence why they come out flat almost every other game which has led to many loses already.

There is no reason to call him out as a band wagoner because he is voicing his opinion. Believe it or not, even Kobe has flaws


I think this is where the biggest problem lies with most of you IMO. You guys don't seem to realize their our DIFFERENT types of leaders on a court/sport. Some lead by example and some lead verbally. But to redicule Kobe because he isnt the type of guy that u would want to play with or for is bias IMO. To be honest I'm more in the corner of the guy who's given the best results and to this point over the past 13 years their isnt a Superstar player in the league who has won more ring than Kobe has. Hey if u prefer a CP3/ Nash type of leader that is fine but knock the other guy who would rather be a guy who leads by example and work ethic.
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Re: Kobe failing as a leader and destroying Lakers confidenc 

Post#118 » by Father Time » Fri Jan 4, 2013 7:29 pm

leeprettyp wrote:
KB24TBOTB wrote:
D Nice wrote:Perhaps you don't see the ridiculous chasm of separation that exists between the points you are making and the evidence you are referencing. You took misconception to an entirely new level regarding Kobe's quote. The rest of your "evidence" is subjective conjecture. It's not evidence at all. It's one Kobe-hater misappropriating blame on his leadership because you can't fall back on the standard indictments of his shooting efficiency.

The stuff he points out is true though, a good leader would be able to motivate his team and set a tone. This team struggles on defense like crazy and starts from Kobe. Sure Howard should be anchoring the defense but Kobe doesn't even try what so ever on that end. He fails to set a tone on that end of the floor and then instead of getting his team going he goes into hero mode. It can look pretty but it also stagnates the team and as a result we have no off the ball movement what so ever. As a leader, along with Nash he has failed to motivate this team hence why they come out flat almost every other game which has led to many loses already.

There is no reason to call him out as a band wagoner because he is voicing his opinion. Believe it or not, even Kobe has flaws


I think this is where the biggest problem lies with most of you IMO. You guys don't seem to realize their our DIFFERENT types of leaders on a court/sport. Some lead by example and some lead verbally. But to redicule Kobe because he isnt the type of guy that u would want to play with or for is bias IMO. To be honest I'm more in the corner of the guy who's given the best results and to this point over the past 13 years their isnt a Superstar player in the league who has won more ring than Kobe has. Hey if u prefer a CP3/ Nash type of leader that is fine but knock the other guy who would rather be a guy who leads by example and work ethic.


This. The motivation should come from seeing the team's best player working insanely hard. That would motivate me at least.
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Re: Kobe failing as a leader and destroying Lakers confidenc 

Post#119 » by leeprettyp » Fri Jan 4, 2013 8:08 pm

Thats how I am also. But I can see why some prefer the other type of leader. The key is I understand the other type of leader.
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Re: Kobe failing as a leader and destroying Lakers confidenc 

Post#120 » by dockingsched » Fri Jan 4, 2013 8:11 pm

what motivation is there to get from watching kobe not try on defense?

i'm not trying to put any blame on kobe here and his "leadership", but man, some of the posts u guys make in support of kobe are crazy. yeah he has great work ethic, the best, but in game, there's no denying he's being lazy on defense more often than not.
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