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Until further notice The Knicks are soft.

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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#41 » by FKF » Tue Jan 8, 2013 12:30 pm

MSG wrote:I agree with the OP and it's been the case for years. Teams that play physical against us almost always walk away with a win.

Knicks need to learn how to react in such situations. So far this season they've been complaining,racking up techs,taking bad shots and eventually losing games all because they didn't know to react properly to other team playing them physical.


To be fair, I think the Knicks need more to adjust to officiating rather than their opponents.
I think we responded well physically speaking, but some times we are allowed to defend, and sometimes we aren't.
Despite we have vets, we are a new team folks, with new expectations this season, and the officiating is very inconsistent this year.
it's tough to adjust when you're the Knicks rather than when you're the Bulls, Grizzlies, Celtics or Heat, who've been in the play-offs longer than us.
If JVG was still the head coach, I swear he'd call out officials.

Both Melo/JR was being hacked every possession last night, and when they tried to do the same the other side of the floor, they were called for reaching-in.
I understand the officials can't call everything, and have to let these guys play, but if you allow the Celtics to reach in and play an older style of basket-ball, they have to allow the Knicks to do the same.

The fact that Garnett finished with two fouls only in 38 minutes is ridiculous if you ask me and proof that something's wrong in today's NBA. They were possessions he could foul Melo or Amar'e three times in 20 seconds, and we didn't get one single call. For some reason, refs were calling Pierce & Melo for small push offs and ticky tack contacts, but KG was allowed to do whatever he wanted ? This reminds of the tackle on Toney Douglas that got Ray Allen open for a game winning three couple of years ago in the play-offs.
KG is allowed to throw elbows and stuff every night in this league, this has to stop!!
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#42 » by ORANGEandBLUE » Tue Jan 8, 2013 12:31 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:Boston played a physical game, the Knicks matched it, the game got chippy, players then took it as personal.

That's what happens in a heated game, hell these two were battling in pre-season.

The only soft thing I see is some our fanbase.

But keep whining, feel free to get it all out.

I don't think we played soft... aside from not boxing out Sullinger. But there's no denying that Boston looked like the more composed team, even though they were getting just as chippy as us.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#43 » by Rasho Brezec » Tue Jan 8, 2013 12:31 pm

ORANGEandBLUE wrote:I notice that bad calls come in waves for us. We get one bad call, and our guys start playing over-aggressive defense or driving into multiple defenders, which results in a foul or no-call against us. It's almost as if our guys are TRYING to create a situation that they can blame the refs on.

Carmelo, newsflash: if you start a drive from 25 ft. out and the whole defense knows you're taking it to the rim, you're gonna get blocked and you shouldn't expect a foul call.

This is a great point. JR is the main culprit usually.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#44 » by ORANGEandBLUE » Tue Jan 8, 2013 12:38 pm

Rasho Brezec wrote:
ORANGEandBLUE wrote:I notice that bad calls come in waves for us. We get one bad call, and our guys start playing over-aggressive defense or driving into multiple defenders, which results in a foul or no-call against us. It's almost as if our guys are TRYING to create a situation that they can blame the refs on.

Carmelo, newsflash: if you start a drive from 25 ft. out and the whole defense knows you're taking it to the rim, you're gonna get blocked and you shouldn't expect a foul call.

This is a great point. JR is the main culprit usually.

I notice it more from Melo and Chandler, which is a shame since they are our leaders. Melo will drive recklessly to the hoop and play over-aggressive D. Chandler will press his man 25 ft. from the basket like he did against Reggie Evans.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#45 » by KnickGawd28 » Tue Jan 8, 2013 12:54 pm

I see the board went off last night.....I don't think the Knicks are soft physically , Just mentally they are right now...But that builds over time..Because we have played so well , ppl forget that this team is still new & we haven't had our full team yet.. mental toughness as a team will come along as the season progress & throughout tough battles like last night....

I do feel like some games against teams like the Bulls Grizz Celts that the refs let a lot go as far as physical play for the other team, as some sort of hazing ..The Knicks just have to be alittle tougher & the refs will start coming around later in the season ( you won't be able to 2 hand touch Melo, 35 ft away from basket.) But i still don't blame them for getting frustrated ..I mean what the hell has Jeff Green or Avery Bradley done in the league to let them get away with basically fouling all game , usually when a player is that aggressive on D that far from the basket (2 hands, elbows, body contact ) as soon as you make a move your suppose to be called a foul , but on the other end you reach in beeep foul ..No consistency is the most I hate about NBA REfs !
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#46 » by MeloNY » Tue Jan 8, 2013 2:39 pm

We are mentally weak team, there is no other way to put it. We are quick to lose our composure. Can't contend for a chip when guys constantly let other players and/or the refs take them out of their game. Happens much too often with this team. The biggest culprits are Melo, Tyson, JR. Smith, and, at times, Woodson. Now I'm one of the biggest fans of all four of those guys but I need to call it like I see it. The team could stand to learn a lot from Jason Kidd's demeanor on the court, you rarely see him get rattled. If we could learn to keep our emotions in check, and channel that emotion into positive energy and focus on the court, the sky is the limit for this team.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#47 » by mpharris36 » Tue Jan 8, 2013 3:06 pm

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YOU HAVE NO MARBLES

there is nothing soft about the Knicks. Do they lose there cool a bit too much...maybe.

There is absolutely nothing soft about the knicks or how they play. If someone talked about my family the way that scumbag KG did to Melo I would of reacted the exact same way.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#48 » by mpharris36 » Tue Jan 8, 2013 3:08 pm

Rasho Brezec wrote:OP is right, we are soft. Whenever a team plays physical, we give up and start whining. That goes for both the players and the fans.


that is not the defenition of soft sir.

We play physical, now if you have made a statement that we may lose are cool from time to time. That would have some credence to it.

But saying we are soft is so far from the truth.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#49 » by omerome » Tue Jan 8, 2013 3:14 pm

Being soft is not standing up for yourself when someone picks on you.

I saw nothing like that from the Knicks this season.

Previous years, yeah. Not this team though.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#50 » by mpharris36 » Tue Jan 8, 2013 3:20 pm

if you want to argue the team needs to keep better composure that is one thing

but the people saying we are soft?

read an english dictionary...
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#51 » by clipse375 » Tue Jan 8, 2013 3:22 pm

Wow, another dumb thread.

Knicks aren't soft. I just wish Rasheed Wallace was out there during all this, and see if you still made this dumb thread.

Props to Melo for standing up to KG, and not taking his bully B.S.

The only one soft on this team is Novak.

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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#52 » by QueenzAllDay » Tue Jan 8, 2013 4:16 pm

This is NOT a dumb thread and I agree with the OP. As a team we are soft. We let the other team or officials get to our head which makes us lose games. This will be a MAJOR problem come playoff time.

When we lose track of the game WE REALLY lose track of the game. It seems like no one cares about making the next stop, getting the next basket. All we seem to care about is "expressing" ourselfs in the WORST possible time. It always seems to happen at crunch time or during a crucial run.

This needs to stop and Woodson needs to get his teams mind right. We have too many Vets to allow this BS to go on any further.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#53 » by NoLayupRule » Tue Jan 8, 2013 4:58 pm

we are not soft
we are not mentally weak


what we are is at the next level talent-wise which is why teams that are lesser than us use thug tactics


fans of the knicks should know this. we used these tactics all through the 90s. we were often vastly less skilled than our competition but we played tougher, harder and intimidated our opponents as often as not.

the Celtics are a sub-500 team missing their best player. They countered with strong D and overly physical play. We tried to counter with shooting and speed. We failed. Just like against Chi.


There are few teams that have a combo of talent and physicality. Typically one or the other. Mem has both. Min too. Utah sorta.


Anyway what matters is that when we play small the physically play works against us because Melo has to over play bigger guys on D and gives up a lot on offense. If they bang him with a C or PF he doesnt flail and fall like LBJ and he doesnt get the calls so he lets it get under his skin.


We need to meet opponents Physicality with a combo of our own - Melo, Tyson, Thomas, Amare and Wallace are all very tough inside - and skill - we need penetration and dishing not post up play against thugs
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#54 » by AmazingJason » Tue Jan 8, 2013 5:01 pm

QueenzAllDay wrote:This is NOT a dumb thread and I agree with the OP. As a team we are soft. We let the other team or officials get to our head which makes us lose games. This will be a MAJOR problem come playoff time.

When we lose track of the game WE REALLY lose track of the game. It seems like no one cares about making the next stop, getting the next basket. All we seem to care about is "expressing" ourselfs in the WORST possible time. It always seems to happen at crunch time or during a crucial run.

This needs to stop and Woodson needs to get his teams mind right. We have too many Vets to allow this BS to go on any further.


Yeah, can you imagine this during the playoffs? No way we last 4 rounds of this. But it's still early in the season. We have to learn from this and grow out of it a better team.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#55 » by Sprewell4Three » Tue Jan 8, 2013 5:08 pm

clipse375 wrote:Wow, another dumb thread.

Knicks aren't soft. I just wish Rasheed Wallace was out there during all this, and see if you still made this dumb thread.

Props to Melo for standing up to KG, and not taking his bully B.S.

The only one soft on this team is Novak.

Lock.


Wow so now fans depend on a has been in Rasheed Wallace to make us tougher? really people?
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#56 » by clipse375 » Tue Jan 8, 2013 5:27 pm

Sprewell4Three wrote:
clipse375 wrote:Wow, another dumb thread.

Knicks aren't soft. I just wish Rasheed Wallace was out there during all this, and see if you still made this dumb thread.

Props to Melo for standing up to KG, and not taking his bully B.S.

The only one soft on this team is Novak.

Lock.


Wow so now fans depend on a has been in Rasheed Wallace to make us tougher? really people?


Uhhh..... what the hell does he bring then?

Why did we bring him here? To shoot 3s on the perimeter? To cheerlead at the bench? To shout ball don't lie from the bench?

Ask the front office, better, ask Coach Woodson what he brings to this team.

Some fans on here talk out of their ass.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#57 » by KingzAndQueenz » Tue Jan 8, 2013 5:32 pm

Knicks are not "soft." However, they sure as hell are not tough. At least Melo isn't.

[rant]

I honestly don't give a sh*t what Kevin Garnett said to Melo. It doesn't matter at all. Kevin Garnett IS tough. Because he doesn't let sh*t get to him like Melo did. He plays his little mind games like a bitch, but all is fair in war and basketball. You never see Garnett get worked up by what someone says.

You guys all have the wrong impression of what being "tough" means. Melo is a "fake tough." Being tough doesn't mean waiting for Garnett outside of his bus to tell him some crap. Being tough doesn't mean screaming "f--- you" to KG mid game. Being tough doesn't mean screaming at the refs after every call and getting t-d up. Being tough doesn't mean letting some sh*t get to you and ruining your in-game performance.

No, being tough is something else. Being tough is playing your game no matter what. Being tough is being mentally strong and blocking out whatever an old prick like KG is saying. Regardless of what it is. Words are just words, it's your reaction to it that makes them meaningful or not.

Let's take LeBron for example. Down 3-2 in the ECF Finals. Going to the Celtics homecourt. You think Garnett didn't give LeBron sh*t? You think he didn't hear that Delonte f*cked his mother over and over again? You think Garnett didn't tell him that he failed to win a title last year? That he's a b*tch for leaving Cleveland? I'm sure he heard this over and over again.

What did LeBron do? Did he complain to the referee? Did he scream at KG? Did he give up the game and meet KG by the bus? No, he blocked him the f*ck out and shot 19/26 with 45 points, 15 boards, and 5 assists. Then he won the f*cking championship.

You think anything KG says will ever bother LeBron again? Never, because LeBron trained himself to be mentally strong, especially after all the crazy criticism he has heard his whole life. The best players are mentally strong.

As for Melo, I really hope he leaves his fake tough guy persona at home and focuses on the game. I hope Woodson gives him a serious talk. Enough of this sh*t. Every loss is exactly the same thing. Game doesn't go our way, Melo bitches and sucks. MVP's dont do that.

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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#58 » by FKF » Tue Jan 8, 2013 5:58 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:we are not soft
we are not mentally weak


what we are is at the next level talent-wise which is why teams that are lesser than us use thug tactics


fans of the knicks should know this. we used these tactics all through the 90s. we were often vastly less skilled than our competition but we played tougher, harder and intimidated our opponents as often as not.

the Celtics are a sub-500 team missing their best player. They countered with strong D and overly physical play. We tried to counter with shooting and speed. We failed. Just like against Chi.


There are few teams that have a combo of talent and physicality. Typically one or the other. Mem has both. Min too. Utah sorta.


Anyway what matters is that when we play small the physically play works against us because Melo has to over play bigger guys on D and gives up a lot on offense. If they bang him with a C or PF he doesnt flail and fall like LBJ and he doesnt get the calls so he lets it get under his skin.


We need to meet opponents Physicality with a combo of our own - Melo, Tyson, Thomas, Amare and Wallace are all very tough inside - and skill - we need penetration and dishing not post up play against thugs


agreed wiht this post

I don't understand how we can call this team soft while they're holding the second best conference record in the biggest US market.
Soft players don't win in NY. So far, these guys are doing pretty good.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#59 » by J0rdan4life42o » Tue Jan 8, 2013 6:19 pm

blumatic wrote:This deserves its own thread because this is not the result of just one game. Its been 3 games that have played out the exact same way. A soft showing by the Knicks.

Now I didnt see much complaining to the refs which was good. But this team loses these type of games.

Grizz and Bulls were blowouts. This game was close throughout but we should have won this game and we continue to make bone headed plays at the end (Melo and JR chucking threes) and not running the offense.


I know we're still unhealthy, I know STAT is still working his way in. I know our starting backcourt is out and we lost a close game. But there is a theme here and I dont like it.

This team looks like champs when everything clicks. But its a facade. Im looking of how the look when we beat a reall good defensive team and coming out on top in a close game.

We blew out MIAMI twice, blew out the Spurs. Ok fine. The only real game where we won a tough close game was the 1st Spurs contest. That was ages ago. As of late (3-4 at msg in last 7 games) we playing soft, our defense is not the killer its should be. Its not physical. Amare only 2 rebounds (he actually gets close to the ball and let his smaller teammates get it SMDH). Allowing big leads early in the game in disgraceful.

I cant say its only player. Collectively we soften up and dont play with savvy, which is what I expect with an older team. But the past 3-4 weeks have been a dissapointment. Our record is good but we dont have enough signature team defining wins. Blowouts dont count because its not adversity during a game.

We got two games against Indiana and Chicago. I expect two close games. If this team is serious about winning a ring. They win these next two games. No excuses.


Soft really? Yes, NY had a difficult time with the Memphis and Chicago, but lets be clear - NY's efficient offense relies heavily on ball movement that leads to open looks...the ball goes through Melo and the attention he draws initiates the ball movement that eventually leads to a good look at the basket. Not only are both of those teams elite at defending the 3 ball, but their the top two teams in the league this year at opponents APG (NY sits 4th btw)... they can kill a teams ball movement and guard the 3 point line like few teams do...what does that tell us? Woodson has to adjust his game plan against such teams, specifically the Bulls (Pacers too). Look for some weaknesses in their defensive strategies...run the ball harder against Memphis, Chicago and Indiana close out on the 3 point line hard, so take the ball inside a few feet in looking for a pass or mid range shot while their defense scrambles...can't go up against these teams thinking the 3s will just drop when they defend them the best.

But it doesn't mean the teams soft. The Boston game especially didn't prove that at all. Everyone here wanted that game last night, no need to misjudge this team because it got away from them in the end. This team is far from soft. The coaching staff adjusting their game plan and the players executing it is what we should be expecting the next time they go up against defenses like Chicago, Indiana and Memphis. We'll know soon how good of a coach Woody really is.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#60 » by QueenzAllDay » Tue Jan 8, 2013 6:31 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:we are not soft
we are not mentally weak


what we are is at the next level talent-wise which is why teams that are lesser than us use thug tactics


fans of the knicks should know this. we used these tactics all through the 90s. we were often vastly less skilled than our competition but we played tougher, harder and intimidated our opponents as often as not.

the Celtics are a sub-500 team missing their best player. They countered with strong D and overly physical play. We tried to counter with shooting and speed. We failed. Just like against Chi.


There are few teams that have a combo of talent and physicality. Typically one or the other. Mem has both. Min too. Utah sorta.


Anyway what matters is that when we play small the physically play works against us because Melo has to over play bigger guys on D and gives up a lot on offense. If they bang him with a C or PF he doesnt flail and fall like LBJ and he doesnt get the calls so he lets it get under his skin.


We need to meet opponents Physicality with a combo of our own - Melo, Tyson, Thomas, Amare and Wallace are all very tough inside - and skill - we need penetration and dishing not post up play against thugs



We are playing like an elite squad. Our X&O game is one of the best in the league. We can not allow our best player to play into the opponent's game. When he plays great everyone else follows. When he gets frustrated the same happens. This results in poor play. If Melo would stop complaining so frequently when he doesn't get calls we could of gotten a few more W's in what is already a successful season. The problem is he ALLOWS it to get under his skin.

My idea of toughness are guys who don't back down but stays on course. Patrick was a great example of this. He never backed down against his rivals. He took smack and threw it right back but in the process he got stops and got buckets.

Melo needs to get his mind right. Until he does that this team will be considered soft.
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