when healthy, shump & felton will be tough matchup

popeye7318 · Post #1 » by **popeye7318** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:30 am

After watching shump today and with felton coming back, our backcourt depth and perimeter defense has become a strength. If healthy, this backcourt might be one of the tougher backcourt to deal with in the league. These two are ultra confident, aggressive, and have a blue collar type approach to the game. They might not be the most talented but they are two players you root for because they wear their emotion on their sleeve. Also they are play makers on both ends. If its either a big steal, drive and dish, or a dunk, they will complement carmelo very well. I am probably little to optimistic but this could be a special tandem.

What other backcourts out there would give these two a problem?

br7knicks · Post #2 » by **br7knicks** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:45 am

popeye7318 wrote:After watching shump today and with felton coming back, our backcourt depth and perimeter defense has become a strength. If healthy, this backcourt might be one of the tougher backcourt to deal with in the league. These two are ultra confident, aggressive, and have a blue collar type approach to the game. They might not be the most talented but they are two players you root for because they wear their emotion on their sleeve. Also they are play makers on both ends. If its either a big steal, drive and dish, or a dunk, they will complement carmelo very well. I am probably little to optimistic but this could be a special tandem.

What other backcourts out there would give these two a problem?

jennings ellis

shump can't guard both. i think felton is not a bad defender. but ellis/jennings offense > felton's defense.

not a lot of outside shooting with felton running the point and shump playing the 2. felton is better at penetrating than shooting 3's. not sure if shump is really that much better at 3's compared to last year. what'd he shoot, 30%?

Post #3 » by **Brooklyn_Yards** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:51 am

We had no problems with Jennings/Ellis with Kidd/Felton guarding them. With more chemistry it can be a good combo, how good we'll have to wait and see. I think Prigs/Shump will be our best perimeter defense combo.

popeye7318 · Post #4 » by **popeye7318** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:56 am

Brooklyn_Yards wrote:We had no problems with Jennings/Ellis with Kidd/Felton guarding them. With more chemistry it can be a good combo, how good we'll have to wait and see. I think Prigs/Shump will be our best perimeter defense combo.

Woodson has numerous combinations to experiment with in the backcourt. I hope he can find the best rotations.

I think back to the boston game with avery bradley. He was an absolute pest. Hopefully shump can neutralize avery.

Post #5 » by **NoLayupRule** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:12 am

the interesting thing will be if Woodson goes back to the small ball that we started with

might he replace Shump and brewer?

Kidd and Felton in the backcourt worked great for us for a long while. Kidd can defend those 2s and he helps keep the ball moving really nicely.

Shump can guard most 3s in todays league and has a lot more scoring and slashing threat than Brewer did.

Im actually in favor of going bigger and making that work but if we continue to play small I think we might see this kind of thing

Felton
Kidd
Shumpy
Melo
Chandler

especially against eastern teams

Pharmcat · Post #6 » by **Pharmcat** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:19 am

Grinditout · Post #7 » by **Grinditout** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:24 am

I just wanna see a Prigioni/Shump full court press one time.

boomann21 · Post #8 » by **boomann21** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:24 am

Hellacious!! I'm getting more excited by the hour, but I don't want to pre-ejaculate my load. Who should start though? Do you put Shump at sf and keep Kidd in the back court? I saw Shump holding Tayshaun Prince a lot in the first half.

biggyfuzz · Post #9 » by **biggyfuzz** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:09 am

when fully healthy which i expect our whole team to be by all-star break, this team will compete for a championship this year

super excited

Post #10 » by **Thugger HBC** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:23 am

Just wondering, Why can't the second unit go small and let the starting unit be a little more conventional?

Felton Shump Copeland Melo Tyson.......just hide Cope a little on defense.

Dr. Detfink · Post #11 » by **Dr. Detfink** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:26 am

Let's not mistake Felton and Shump with one of the best back courts in the NBA. Felton's D is erratic, despite giving his best efforts. Shump's offensive game needs to grow in order for the Knicks to continue finding ways to spread the floor.

gavran · Post #12 » by **gavran** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:08 am

Dr. Detfink wrote:Let's not mistake Felton and Shump with one of the best back courts in the NBA. Felton's D is erratic, despite giving his best efforts. Shump's offensive game needs to grow in order for the Knicks to continue finding ways to spread the floor.

No one said anything close to that.

KingOf NY · Post #13 » by **KingOf NY** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:16 am

İ would much rather see kidd at the 2 and shumpert at the 3.

popeye7318 · Post #14 » by **popeye7318** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:24 am

NoLayupRule wrote:the interesting thing will be if Woodson goes back to the small ball that we started with

might he replace Shump and brewer?

Kidd and Felton in the backcourt worked great for us for a long while. Kidd can defend those 2s and he helps keep the ball moving really nicely.

Shump can guard most 3s in todays league and has a lot more scoring and slashing threat than Brewer did.

Im actually in favor of going bigger and making that work but if we continue to play small I think we might see this kind of thing

Felton
Kidd
Shumpy
Melo
Chandler

especially against eastern teams

I think thats woodson's inclination to play small ball. However I hope he adapts to teams like memphis and chicago who want to play big.

br7knicks · Post #15 » by **br7knicks** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:56 am

NoLayupRule wrote:the interesting thing will be if Woodson goes back to the small ball that we started with

might he replace Shump and brewer?

Kidd and Felton in the backcourt worked great for us for a long while. Kidd can defend those 2s and he helps keep the ball moving really nicely.

Shump can guard most 3s in todays league and has a lot more scoring and slashing threat than Brewer did.

Im actually in favor of going bigger and making that work but if we continue to play small I think we might see this kind of thing

Felton
Kidd
Shumpy
Melo
Chandler

especially against eastern teams

that's the lineup i was pushing for a while. you ever criticized me for stating that exact one! you said amare is going to have to come back and be pushed into the starting lineup, but that's the one i proposed!

Brooklyn_Yards wrote:We had no problems with Jennings/Ellis with Kidd/Felton guarding them. With more chemistry it can be a good combo, how good we'll have to wait and see. I think Prigs/Shump will be our best perimeter defense combo.

neither guy dropped 30+ points, you're right. but either one of them has the ability to do so, and they both shot well from the court but didn't put up their typical high volume FGA. maybe that was from great defense, but it was also a different lineup (no kidd, so there's that).

i'd love to see prigs/shump do work.

Leaguepass · Post #16 » by **Leaguepass** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:55 pm

Shumpert is very good on defense but I don't know whether it's a good look to put him against 6'8/220 Sfs night in and night out. The 3 guard line-up with Melo at the 4 puts us at a size disadvantage at 3 positions and I don't like it.

I personally think the starting unit should be:

Kidd
Shumpert
Melo
Stat
Chandler

That gives us strong enough shooting from the perimeter along with great pick and roll offense and our rebounding will improve. With a fully healthy squad I don't think the Felton/Kidd combo is a great one in the starting line-up. Unfortunately I don't see Woodson bringing Felton off the bench. I'm against Shumpert at the 3. It's asking to get hammered on the boards.

KNICKFAN374 · Post #17 » by **KNICKFAN374** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:59 pm

Once Felton is back and Shump is ready for more minutes I would like to see Woodson go with a starting unit along with minutes allocated as follows as we get into the heart of the season:

Felton 36 mpg
Shump 32 mpg
Novak 20 mpg (absolutely need his shooting with a Felton/Shump backcourt - nice mix of offense defense)
Melo 36mpg
Chandler 32mpg

Bench
Kidd 28mpg (he will finish most games)
Smith 28 mpg
Amare 28 mpg

Unfortunately Camby & Wallace are hurt; I would give Prigs, Brewer & Coepland & Thomas mintes only if there was foul trouble.

br7knicks · Post #18 » by **br7knicks** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:02 pm

maybe 21 to 33 year old kidd should start. dude cannot play the same level of defense, nor can he penetate defenses like felton. id rather prigs and shump start the backcourt. kidd is a spot up shooter now

Falstaffxx · Post #19 » by **Falstaffxx** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:13 pm

Yeah, Felton/Shumpert will be a good backcourt. The team really does need Felton back. It'll be better having Kidd come off the bench behind those two. With Smith getting big minutes, it should be possible to limit Kidd to about 20, which should improve his play and make him fresher in the playoffs. I just hope Shumpert stays healthy.

MaseInYourFace · Post #20 » by **MaseInYourFace** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:25 pm

popeye7318 wrote:After watching shump today and with felton coming back, our backcourt depth and perimeter defense has become a strength. If healthy, this backcourt might be one of the tougher backcourt to deal with in the league. These two are ultra confident, aggressive, and have a blue collar type approach to the game. They might not be the most talented but they are two players you root for because they wear their emotion on their sleeve. Also they are play makers on both ends. If its either a big steal, drive and dish, or a dunk, they will complement carmelo very well. I am probably little to optimistic but this could be a special tandem.

What other backcourts out there would give these two a problem?

YOu kinda make it seem like both these guys came out of d-league and were working in a supermarket when Knicks scouted them. They were both picked relatively high in the draft. I get your overall assesment though. I like the combo, just have to rein in Felton a little...