Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan

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Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#41 » by Effigy » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:28 pm

Suns want Michael Beasley to be more like Lebron James.
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Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#42 » by Debaser » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:30 pm

The Big Areumental
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Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#43 » by mysticbb » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:08 pm

tsherkin wrote:Karl's got a good idea, and a really basic one.


Nobody is disputing that this is a good idea, just that McGee produces more mental lapses within a week than Duncan had in his whole career. That is not just a question of McGee not having the fundamental skills of Duncan, he also doesn't possess the mental abilities.

Every coach should want his interior big to play like Duncan, keep it simple, stays with the fundamental stuff, don't force the issue, make the right plays offensively and cover the holes on the defensive end by moving to the right spots. That is in fact a great idea, just that Duncan seems to have a more natural understanding of the game, knows what a team sports means and worked on his fundamental skills his entire career. It probably helped that he developed a base strength and stamina via swimming, because that is a workout for the whole body and not just for specific muscles. It is probably a good idea for young basketball players to become a medley swimmer as well.
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Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#44 » by torotoe » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:22 pm

mysticbb wrote:So far this season: Nene played 576 min and the Wizards with him on the court are at +5.2 per 100 possessions. McGee played 798 min and the Nuggets are -2.4 per 100 possessions with him on the court. Nene has $45.5m left on his contract (3.5 years), McGee $39m. To be quite blunt, I much rather pay Nene with injury problems $45.5m than McGee without injury problems $39m, because the former will at least make my team play better basketball when on the court, while the other makes his coaches wish he would have the brain of someone else.

Do you not see the obvious bias in +/-? McGee is a bench player on a good team. Nene is by far and away the best player on an awful team. When McGee is off the floor Koufos is producing and the starters are in with him, hence the +/-. The wizards are a joke when Nene is on the bench.
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Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#45 » by 9abovetherim » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:26 pm

And I want Monta Ellis to be more like Dwyane Wade, oh wait...
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Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#46 » by mysticbb » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:26 pm

torotoe wrote:Do you not see the obvious bias in +/-? McGee is a bench player on a good team. Nene is by far and away the best player on an awful team. When McGee is off the floor Koufos is producing and the starters are in with him, hence the +/-. The wizards are a joke when Nene is on the bench.


There is no such bias. The numbers I listed are the simple pace adjusted scoring margins when someone is on the court. How the team plays without the respective player is NOT included. If we would do that, it would be even more loopsided. Again, that "awful team" with Nene is outscoring their opponents when Nene is on the court! The "good team" is getting outscored when McGee is on the court! Whether the Wizards are a joke without Nene or the Nuggets are awesome without McGee doesn't matter at all.
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Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#47 » by torotoe » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:36 pm

mysticbb wrote:
tsherkin wrote:Karl's got a good idea, and a really basic one.


Nobody is disputing that this is a good idea, just that McGee produces more mental lapses within a week than Duncan had in his whole career. That is not just a question of McGee not having the fundamental skills of Duncan, he also doesn't possess the mental abilities.
This is extremely overstated, I personally dont think he's dumb, just low bbiq. He's sharp in interviews, he's not a dumb guy. That said, does he even NEED to have the mental faculties to play fundamental? No. McGee should have a simpler, more standard jump hook ala koufos. He's always trying to do crazy up and under dunks, etc. Keep it simple.

On D, he has tremendous potential. As is he makes the other team worry about driving. Once he is actually playing solid D, he will be scary good with his length, speed, durability and hops. That's why Karl wants him to play like duncan. Actually, if you clone Duncan's brain and transplant it into McGee, he's the best player in the league. He's got tools that duncan could never dream of (and also couldn't use as a crutch like McGee).
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Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#48 » by sisibilio » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:37 pm

Manimal wrote:Nothing too ridiculous in what he said, IMO.

GTFO.
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Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#49 » by branny » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:39 pm

9abovetherim wrote:And I want Monta Ellis to be more like Dwyane Wade, oh wait...

:lol:
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Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#50 » by torotoe » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:50 pm

mysticbb wrote:
torotoe wrote:Do you not see the obvious bias in +/-? McGee is a bench player on a good team. Nene is by far and away the best player on an awful team. When McGee is off the floor Koufos is producing and the starters are in with him, hence the +/-. The wizards are a joke when Nene is on the bench.


There is no such bias. The numbers I listed are the simple pace adjusted scoring margins when someone is on the court. How the team plays without the respective player is NOT included. If we would do that, it would be even more loopsided. Again, that "awful team" with Nene is outscoring their opponents when Nene is on the court! The "good team" is getting outscored when McGee is on the court! Whether the Wizards are a joke without Nene or the Nuggets are awesome without McGee doesn't matter at all.


Ok, I misunderstood your stat, thought it was +/-. Stil, Nene plays with the best 5 the wizards have. not so for McGee who plays with brewer, miller, etc. If Nene came off the bench, his scoring margin would drop, right?
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Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#51 » by mysticbb » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:00 pm

torotoe wrote:This is extremely overstated, I personally dont think he's dumb, just low bbiq.


I don't care whether a basketball player is a rocket scientist in his spare time, I only care about his abilities to play the game of basketball. And as you said, McGee has a low bbiq, and in comparison to Duncan it is extremly low.

torotoe wrote:He's always trying to do crazy up and under dunks, etc.


And these are the mental lapses I'm talking about. You can look through all games Duncan ever played and you will find less of those kind of mistakes than McGee has within a week. That is a severe lack of mental abilities; and at that basketball-related mental abilities.

torotoe wrote:On D, he has tremendous potential. As is he makes the other team worry about driving. Once he is actually playing solid D, he will be scary good with his length, speed, durability and hops.


The guy is 26 yrs old, plays his 5th season in the league, usually players at that age and with that length of career picked it up already. McGee is really slow in picking it up. If he continues to improve at his current rate, he will be 50 and out of the league when he finally has a full grasp on what he needs to do on the basketball court and what not.

torotoe wrote:That's why Karl wants him to play like duncan. Actually, if you clone Duncan's brain and transplant it into McGee, he's the best player in the league. He's got tools that duncan could never dream of (and also couldn't use as a crutch like McGee).


I don't think that you followed Duncan throughout his career enough in order to make such statements. Duncan in his rookie season showed more fundamentals and skills with a much higher understanding of the game than McGee in his 5th season. Keep dreaming about a McGee who can finally live up to his "potential" and his contract, but the likelihood that this will happen is really slim.
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Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#52 » by chocodog » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:00 pm

Who's the source on this article, the Onion?
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Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#53 » by mysticbb » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:08 pm

torotoe wrote:Ok, I misunderstood your stat, thought it was +/-. Stil, Nene plays with the best 5 the wizards have. not so for McGee who plays with brewer, miller, etc. If Nene came off the bench, his scoring margin would drop, right?


Nene came off the bench for a couple of games and played with all sort of players from the Wizards. In fact Nene has the highest scoring margin of all Wizards' players.
Brewer has 0, Miller has +3.6. The lineup McGee has the most minutes with is Farried, Iguodala, Lawson and Gallinari. They are -31.1 per 100 possessions in this season. The same lineup with Koufos instead of McGee is +8.2. The issue is not everyone else McGee is playing with, the issue is McGee's lack of understanding how to play the game.

For sure, McGee can make up for a part of it with his athleticism, but that's about it.
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Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#54 » by torotoe » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:26 pm

mysticbb wrote:
torotoe wrote:This is extremely overstated, I personally dont think he's dumb, just low bbiq.


I don't care whether a basketball player is a rocket scientist in his spare time, I only care about his abilities to play the game of basketball. And as you said, McGee has a low bbiq, and in comparison to Duncan it is extremly low.

torotoe wrote:He's always trying to do crazy up and under dunks, etc.


And these are the mental lapses I'm talking about. You can look through all games Duncan ever played and you will find less of those kind of mistakes than McGee has within a week. That is a severe lack of mental abilities; and at that basketball-related mental abilities.

Here's the diference: that play is/was/never was available to Duncan. He never had the athleticism that McGee has. McGee's mental lapses are trying to "do too much".

torotoe wrote:On D, he has tremendous potential. As is he makes the other team worry about driving. Once he is actually playing solid D, he will be scary good with his length, speed, durability and hops.


The guy is 26 yrs old, plays his 5th season in the league, usually players at that age and with that length of career picked it up already. McGee is really slow in picking it up. If he continues to improve at his current rate, he will be 50 and out of the league when he finally has a full grasp on what he needs to do on the basketball court and what not.
He played for the Wiz for three and a half years. In his time with the nuggets he has gotten so much better defensively. Your reference to his current rate of development shows you don't watch him. You are not qualified to speak on the subject. you have to watch the dude, or you just sound uninformed. And I know you don't watch him. Oh yeah, by 26 do you mean 25 today? that's what I thought.
torotoe wrote:That's why Karl wants him to play like duncan. Actually, if you clone Duncan's brain and transplant it into McGee, he's the best player in the league. He's got tools that duncan could never dream of (and also couldn't use as a crutch like McGee).


I don't think that you followed Duncan throughout his career enough in order to make such statements. Duncan in his rookie season showed more fundamentals and skills with a much higher understanding of the game than McGee in his 5th season. Keep dreaming about a McGee who can finally live up to his "potential" and his contract, but the likelihood that this will happen is really slim.

duh. If Duncan had McGee's body he would be a top 5 player of all time. If McGee had Duncan's brain he would be a top 5 player of all time. McGee was able to make it to the NBA without putting in the effort like duncan, because he didn't have to. Signs are the FO is happy with his development. If you were to actually watch the guy you would see his improvement. It's not gradual improvement...
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Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#55 » by mysticbb » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:48 pm

torotoe wrote:He played for the Wiz for three and a half years.


That is still a NBA level team, and he got the chances there too.

torotoe wrote:In his time with the nuggets he has gotten so much better defensively.


Better? Yes, he got better. It would be a shame, if he actually hadn't improved at all given his previous status. But I completely disagree with the "much better" part.

torotoe wrote:Your reference to his current rate of development shows you don't watch him. You are not qualified to speak on the subject. you have to watch the dude, or you just sound uninformed. And I know you don't watch him.


:lol:

How would you know any of this? Granted, I don't watch all Nuggets game from the beginning to the end, but I saw enough of him in this season and previous seasons to make a judgement about his development rate.

torotoe wrote:Oh yeah, by 26 do you mean 25 today? that's what I thought.


Yes, I mean 25. Typos can happen. ;)

torotoe wrote:If Duncan had McGee's body he would be a top 5 player of all time. If McGee had Duncan's brain he would be a top 5 player of all time.


It is not just the brain, McGee lacks the skills. McGee does not possess the passing abiities, he does not posses the postup game, he does not possess the shooting abilities, he lacks the footwork on offense and defense; there is more difference between Duncan and McGee than just the decision making.

torotoe wrote: McGee was able to make it to the NBA without putting in the effort like duncan, because he didn't have to. Signs are the FO is happy with his development. If you were to actually watch the guy you would see his improvement. It's not gradual improvement...


Given the fact that McGee actually produced better and was more efficient during the first quarter of the season than the second quarter of the season, while additionally played less minutes in the 2nd quarter of the season; his oncourt +/- for the first 20 games was -2.3, for the next 22 games it was -3.8. I somehow doubt that the improvement is more than gradual. There is simply no evidence that McGee improved more than gradually (which is normal, btw, the biggest jumps are usually seen from season to season).
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Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#56 » by DMVleGeND » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:40 pm

CHA_77_Bobcats wrote:^ It was a great trade. Nene's contract is terrible since he's rarely healthy and playing at 100% and let's be honest, 100% for Nene isn't star caliber or anywhere close to it.

Javale is still growing as a player, really young, sooooooooooo lllllllllloooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnggg and full of potential.


Aslo just saw today is Javale's 25th birthday, quarter of a century. Javale: "what's a century?"


It's not a good trade because DEN gave McGee a 4 yr/$44M contract, and even though Nene is overpaid, he's still a better player than McGee.
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Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#57 » by Blame Rasho » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:00 pm

You will never say that Tim Duncan is playing out of control, and I think that is what Karl is getting at. He needs to play within his own abilities. He is the JR Smith of bigmen, but hopefully his McGee's sake he will get it quicker than JR Smith.
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Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#58 » by DusterBuster » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:02 pm

Do we have the technology for brain transplants yet? Because until that happens, Javale will never be like Duncan.
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Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#59 » by UnderdogKnicks » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:29 pm

I know wat he's trying to say but it's just such a bad comparison cause Mcgee will never be playing like Tim Duncan. Should have just say play smarter, watch more film, and focus on his fundamentals. Duncan's mental aspect is a large part of wat makes him who he is and Mcgee is the complete opposite in that factor, dumbest player in the league.
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Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#60 » by Goldtop » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:55 pm

NorrisColeWorld wrote:Witetap got a bad beat.

The quote was I want Javale McGee to play less like a Dumb Tin Can


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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