Why is defense considered ugly?
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- jjgp111292
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Because it is ? I'd much rather watch a fast paced game with good offense than watch teams walk the ball up the floor and use up 22 seconds on the shot clock while throwing up airballs.
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
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- RealGM
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
It's ugly the same way that a fight is ugly- physical, brutal, ect. It's not finesse, it's hustle, muscle, and heart. I love watching defense and I don't mind when people call it ugly.
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Artistry, style and creativity are huge reasons why basketball is such a compelling sport. Perhaps my favorite thing about the game is watching incredible athletes -- the list is endless for me, going back to when I first started watching in the late 80s -- doing incredible things, and that typically, but not always, happens on the offensive end.
Defense obviously has its place in the game, and is a critical factor in winning. It doesn't necessarily have to be ugly. There have been a couple of Memphis/Spurs games this season that were very physical but highly entertaining to watch.
But defense also inhibits the things I enjoy most about the game. When that is combined with borderline ineptitude on offense, as is the case with the Pacers -- you couldn't pay me to watch that.
Defense obviously has its place in the game, and is a critical factor in winning. It doesn't necessarily have to be ugly. There have been a couple of Memphis/Spurs games this season that were very physical but highly entertaining to watch.
But defense also inhibits the things I enjoy most about the game. When that is combined with borderline ineptitude on offense, as is the case with the Pacers -- you couldn't pay me to watch that.
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- Nuntius
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Sedale Threatt wrote:When that is combined with borderline ineptitude on offense, as is the case with the Pacers -- you couldn't pay me to watch that.
We shall keep our money then
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
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And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."
She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Because oftentimes there's no flow to the game an no spectacular plays happening. The NBA is still about putting butts in seats
No one considered the 01 Sixers ugly back in the day, despite low FG% and defense to death. Why? Because they had a dazzling player in Iverson that made them watchable.
Likewise, no one thought of the 2012 Heat as an ugly team last year. They played great defensive and they still were highly entertaining because of their transition and drive-and-dish game.
Early 00s Spurs is the defintion of boring. Good D to make up for very bad offense outside of anything Tim
Duncan created. And even with Timmy (who I personally love to watch go to work, was considered boring my 90% of non-Spurs homers because he wasn't flashy and probably dunked like twice a year)
The Celtics have also rarely been a boring team, despite having league best defenses since 08. Ray, PP, Rondo and to some extent KG just made their brand of ball entertaining.
No one considered the 01 Sixers ugly back in the day, despite low FG% and defense to death. Why? Because they had a dazzling player in Iverson that made them watchable.
Likewise, no one thought of the 2012 Heat as an ugly team last year. They played great defensive and they still were highly entertaining because of their transition and drive-and-dish game.
Early 00s Spurs is the defintion of boring. Good D to make up for very bad offense outside of anything Tim
Duncan created. And even with Timmy (who I personally love to watch go to work, was considered boring my 90% of non-Spurs homers because he wasn't flashy and probably dunked like twice a year)
The Celtics have also rarely been a boring team, despite having league best defenses since 08. Ray, PP, Rondo and to some extent KG just made their brand of ball entertaining.
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
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- RealGM
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
I never thought the Spurs were as bad as everyone thought. What typically hurt them was that, outside of the Pistons in 05, they were playing crappy teams in the Finals, their big opportunity to showcase themselves.
And that Pistons/Spurs series, as competitive as it was, was brutal to watch because you had two world-class defenses choking each other out.
I don't care what anyone says -- going eight, nine possessions in a row with no points isn't exciting to watch. That happened pretty much every quarter in that series.
And that Pistons/Spurs series, as competitive as it was, was brutal to watch because you had two world-class defenses choking each other out.
I don't care what anyone says -- going eight, nine possessions in a row with no points isn't exciting to watch. That happened pretty much every quarter in that series.
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
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- RealGM
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
An aside, Tim Duncan is my litmus test for basketball acumen. People who think he's boring obviously don't know anything about hoops, and our discussion can end there.
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
The defense isn't ugly, the opposing offense that results from the defense is ugly. But many times ugly games aren't just defense, but a mixture of really good defense and sloppy/bad offense. What is ugly isn't the really good defense, it is the sloppy / bad offense.
If you are moving the ball well and the defense just closes out and makes you take tough shots, that isn't ugly, just good defense. If you are playing iso ball and missing and wildly driving into traffic and getting turnovers and throwing awful passes, that's just ugly no matter what the defense is doing.
...but yes, slow paced defensive battles isn't really "fun" to watch. You can commend it, but it certainly isn't exciting to see two teams shoot 35% FG and score 40 points at half time.
If you are moving the ball well and the defense just closes out and makes you take tough shots, that isn't ugly, just good defense. If you are playing iso ball and missing and wildly driving into traffic and getting turnovers and throwing awful passes, that's just ugly no matter what the defense is doing.
...but yes, slow paced defensive battles isn't really "fun" to watch. You can commend it, but it certainly isn't exciting to see two teams shoot 35% FG and score 40 points at half time.
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- rizkid92
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Bskey wrote:The "goal" in basketball is to score.
In any scoring based sport, scoring is what truly excites people. This is something most definitely not unique to basketball.
Actually the "Goal" in basketball is to hold your opponents from scoring more than you
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
rizkid92 wrote:Bskey wrote:The "goal" in basketball is to score.
In any scoring based sport, scoring is what truly excites people. This is something most definitely not unique to basketball.
Actually the "Goal" in basketball is to hold your opponents from scoring more than you
Why even do this? Neither of you is wrong, the goal is to have more points in the end. Whether you do it by aiming to score much more effectively or aiming to prevent your opponents from scoring as effectively, or best of all, both, as long as the end result is you with more points.
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
og15 wrote:The defense isn't ugly, the opposing offense that results from the defense is ugly.
Poorly executed offenses are ugly, people sometimes equate low scoring affairs with good defenses, and that's not always the case.
If you want to try to measure the elements of basketball that are supposedly unmeasurable, spend a game just watching Marc Gasol.
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
sisibilio wrote:og15 wrote:The defense isn't ugly, the opposing offense that results from the defense is ugly.
Poorly executed offenses are ugly, people sometimes equate low scoring affairs with good defenses, and that's not always the case.
Yea, exactly, the ugly is when a team isn't scoring because of sloppiness and iso ball with players that shouldn't iso so much, etc, not necessarily the defense.
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- rockmanslim
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
rizkid92 wrote:Bskey wrote:The "goal" in basketball is to score.
In any scoring based sport, scoring is what truly excites people. This is something most definitely not unique to basketball.
Actually the "Goal" in basketball is to hold your opponents from scoring more than you
The real goal of pro sports is butts in seats and eyes on screens.
Scoring sells. It's why the NFL has made quarterbacks untouchable on the field. It's why Stern eliminated hand checking, put in the clear path rule, changed the 10 second backcourt violation to 8 seconds, etc. It's why MLB juiced their baseballs and their players.
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"Harden's a guy that averages 26 in the NBA, but if he was on the playground with you he'd only average about 5 because they wouldn't let him get those free throws." --Scott Hastings, April 6, 2013
"Harden's a guy that averages 26 in the NBA, but if he was on the playground with you he'd only average about 5 because they wouldn't let him get those free throws." --Scott Hastings, April 6, 2013
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- Nuntius
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
rockmanslim wrote:The real goal of pro sports is butts in seats and eyes on screens.
But the real goal of pro teams is to win a championship in their sport.
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."
She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."
She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
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- RealGM
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Missed shots, loose balls, hard fouls, turnovers and low scoring, are all characteristics that are prevalent in a game where 2 great defensive teams are playing each other. Rendering it 'ugly'.
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- rockmanslim
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Nuntius wrote:rockmanslim wrote:The real goal of pro sports is butts in seats and eyes on screens.
But the real goal of pro teams is to win a championship in their sport.
Because championships put butts in seats and eyes on screens.
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"Harden's a guy that averages 26 in the NBA, but if he was on the playground with you he'd only average about 5 because they wouldn't let him get those free throws." --Scott Hastings, April 6, 2013
"Harden's a guy that averages 26 in the NBA, but if he was on the playground with you he'd only average about 5 because they wouldn't let him get those free throws." --Scott Hastings, April 6, 2013
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- Bskey
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
rizkid92 wrote:Bskey wrote:The "goal" in basketball is to score.
In any scoring based sport, scoring is what truly excites people. This is something most definitely not unique to basketball.
Actually the "Goal" in basketball is to hold your opponents from scoring more than you
Duh? Try doing that with a score of 0.
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Dominater wrote:Im one of those guys that generally leaned more tords the shootouts. i will say though that i was wowed by that Lakers/Celtics 2010 game 7. THAT was the most amazing grind-it-out hardcore defensive game ive ever witnessed, and loved every second of it
I love watching competition, imoveable object against the unstoppable force. Watching great contested shots makes the shot itself amazing. I hate watching chuckers and uncontested shots, otherwise i would just watch layup drills lol
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- Nuntius
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
rockmanslim wrote:Nuntius wrote:rockmanslim wrote:The real goal of pro sports is butts in seats and eyes on screens.
But the real goal of pro teams is to win a championship in their sport.
Because championships put butts in seats and eyes on screens.
Yes.
So, if a team can win a chip by being "boring" do you think that they're not going to do it?
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."
She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."
She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Because you'll see lots of misses.