ImageImage

Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good player"

Moderators: paulpressey25, MickeyDavis

Ayt
RealGM
Posts: 57,975
And1: 13,712
Joined: Jun 27, 2005

Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#241 » by Ayt » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:32 am

paul wrote:
LUKE23 wrote:
DrugBust wrote:Harris wasn't changing our fate either. Until we get a franchise player this is all pointless. So who gives a ****? You like Harris, I like Redick. Either way the Bucks don't have a contending core.

So getting worked up (BAG NIGHT I'M DONE WITH THIS TEAM) is stupid.


You have no idea about Harris because he's still probably 3-4 years away from his ceiling. Chances are he's not a superstar. But I'd much rather find out. WE CAN **** SIGN REDICK IN THE GODDAM OFFSEASON IF WE REALLY WANT HIM.


They don't hand out 8th seeds in the offseason my angry little friend.


:rofl2:

I'm going to be pissed when Harris becomes a legitimate starter and very solid scorer within the next 2 years.
User avatar
blazza18
RealGM
Posts: 53,123
And1: 26,372
Joined: Dec 02, 2010
       

Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#242 » by blazza18 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:40 am

paul wrote:Ha.


I wish people would stop box score watching and actually watch games. But whatevs. Let people think that.

Clearly its still Ellis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bogut.
Baddy Chuck wrote:I want to win but I also love chaos.
User avatar
paul
RealGM
Posts: 32,398
And1: 1,038
Joined: Dec 11, 2007
 

Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#243 » by paul » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:44 am

blazza18 wrote:
paul wrote:Ha.


I wish people would stop box score watching and actually watch games. But whatevs. Let people think that.

Clearly its still Ellis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bogut.


Seriously though, they maybe spent 5 minutes on the floor together and I can't be positive but am not sure Jermaine got a single statistic the entire time they were. I don't mind boxscore watching as long as you then don't pretend that you know your head from your ass and talk in specifics.



Mup.



pet.
Ayt
RealGM
Posts: 57,975
And1: 13,712
Joined: Jun 27, 2005

Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#244 » by Ayt » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:44 am

DrugBust wrote:If the Bucks drafted Trey Burke and let Jennings walk would that make this deal better all of the sudden? Give Redick $8 million a year for four years or whatever. Let everyone else walk and sign none cap killing vets to fill out the roster. The Bucks are still as flexible as ever, not great but not bad.

I feel like I have to add this to every post, but I'm looking for rational discussion.


It is hard to find middle ground when the view of Tobias is so different. I'm a big defender of Redick and will really enjoy watching him the rest of the year. I hope we give him as many minutes as possible. I'd probably go as high as 4 years, 30M to keep him, though I'd prefer to get him down closer to 3 years, 21M.

That being said, I really don't like the trade because we gave up Tobias. I'd have much rather traded our 1st rounder. If we had traded our 1st, I'd have been fine with the trade. People can argue that Tobias was just picked 19th a season ago, but the value of a player compared to his draft slot changes quite a bit a year and a half after he has been picked. I certainly wouldn't have shipped out Harris for the 15th pick in this draft.
User avatar
paul
RealGM
Posts: 32,398
And1: 1,038
Joined: Dec 11, 2007
 

Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#245 » by paul » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:45 am

Ayt wrote:
paul wrote:
LUKE23 wrote:
You have no idea about Harris because he's still probably 3-4 years away from his ceiling. Chances are he's not a superstar. But I'd much rather find out. WE CAN **** SIGN REDICK IN THE GODDAM OFFSEASON IF WE REALLY WANT HIM.


They don't hand out 8th seeds in the offseason my angry little friend.


:rofl2:

I'm going to be pissed when Harris becomes a legitimate starter and very solid scorer within the next 2 years.


:D


Yeah but there comes a time when we all have to ask ourselves if they are worth it.

In other news, go Magic.
User avatar
ackypoo
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,506
And1: 3,343
Joined: Jan 03, 2013
 

Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#246 » by ackypoo » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:48 am

Ayt wrote:That being said, I really don't like the trade because we gave up Tobias. I'd have much rather traded our 1st rounder. If we had traded our 1st, I'd have been fine with the trade. People can argue that Tobias was just picked 19th a season ago, but the value of a player compared to his draft slot changes quite a bit a year and a half after he has been picked. I certainly wouldn't have shipped out Harris for the 15th pick in this draft.


basically we traded a 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder, and udrih for a half year of redick
User avatar
paul
RealGM
Posts: 32,398
And1: 1,038
Joined: Dec 11, 2007
 

Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#247 » by paul » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:49 am

Ayt wrote:
DrugBust wrote:If the Bucks drafted Trey Burke and let Jennings walk would that make this deal better all of the sudden? Give Redick $8 million a year for four years or whatever. Let everyone else walk and sign none cap killing vets to fill out the roster. The Bucks are still as flexible as ever, not great but not bad.

I feel like I have to add this to every post, but I'm looking for rational discussion.


It is hard to find middle ground when the view of Tobias is so different. I'm a big defender of Redick and will really enjoy watching him the rest of the year. I hope we give him as many minutes as possible. I'd probably go as high as 4 years, 30M to keep him, though I'd prefer to get him down closer to 3 years, 21M.

That being said, I really don't like the trade because we gave up Tobias. I'd have much rather traded our 1st rounder. If we had traded our 1st, I'd have been fine with the trade. People can argue that Tobias was just picked 19th a season ago, but the value of a player compared to his draft slot changes quite a bit a year and a half after he has been picked. I certainly wouldn't have shipped out Harris for the 15th pick in this draft.


Yup, I should say that I liked Lamb and was a Beno fan too, but Tobias was the prize for me and I'm sure for the Magic.
User avatar
ampd
RealGM
Posts: 21,268
And1: 4,883
Joined: Dec 06, 2010

Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#248 » by ampd » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:51 am

i do fear that it would increase the odds of Hammond then also paying to keep Jennings long term.


Can you get more than 100%?
\
Nebula1
RealGM
Posts: 27,829
And1: 1,571
Joined: Aug 06, 2005
Location: Underground King
 

Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#249 » by Nebula1 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:52 am

I have decided to give Ish Smith mad love however.
User avatar
humanrefutation
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 30,351
And1: 13,869
Joined: Jun 05, 2006
       

Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#250 » by humanrefutation » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:52 am

sneakerdust wrote:The reason I lied is that the rest of your tone of the alternative argument not understanding or assuming you have a higher moral ground because you feel impacted by the behavior of others has nothing to do with the argument. It is a technique to stifle debate which I find insidious - yet understandable because the technique is ingrained by our education system from a young age.


You're right, it does stifle debate. But that's because unless you're a member of a targeted group, claiming that you can disagree about whether your statement was racist towards that group makes as much sense as my decision to debate with an oncologist about her cancer diagnosis. It's not your field of experience or expertise. The whole idea of "walking a mile in my shoes" comes into mind here.

Racism is pretty easy to understand. I gave the definition before. All those jokes are not racist by definition. Thus they have no impact as you wish to ascribe to them.


And yet, at least three or four people vocally stated their objection to those statements. But, I guess they had no impact, huh?

But as the different social/cultural mores of Continental Europeans v. Latin American Europeans, Caribbean blacks vs. American blacks, or between various Native Tribes illustrate - those idiosyncrasies that make us interesting as individuals and groups are not based on race. And the humor/hate/behavior based on them is not racist.


Absolutely agree that the differences which define our respective cultures are worth celebrating. But, it's certainly racist when attitudes towards those groups are based on hate. And it still becomes racist when you attempt to push someone into a box and identify them solely based on their stereotypes regarding their cultural heritage. So, when someone calls me a camel jockey because I'm of Middle Eastern descent, or says that someone's who's Black must love eating watermelon and fried chicken, it's racist not because riding camels or enjoying chicken is a bad thing, but because they're ascribing a stereotype about my ethnic identity to my personal identity. They're looking at me as a member of a certain ethnic or racial group first and foremost, and judging me based upon that stereotype. And that can have tremendous implications in social dynamics.
User avatar
stellation
RealGM
Posts: 15,538
And1: 8,898
Joined: Dec 13, 2005
Location: *inaudible*

Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#251 » by stellation » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:53 am

blazza18 wrote:
ttime1 wrote:For those who still think that the Ellis-Bogut trade was awful need only explain how Bogut was outplayed last night by a washed up Jermaine O'Neal. We are talking about 17 points and 12 rebounds. I'm sorry, there are high-school centers who can do better against and aged and partially disabled O'neal. So, Ellis was and is the better option.


I'm sorry. What ?

To be fair, Jermaine did score 2 points, 2 rebounds (stats which include putting back an offensive board) and a block (not on the great man) in the time that he and Andrew were on the court together.
#FreeChuckDiesel
User avatar
stellation
RealGM
Posts: 15,538
And1: 8,898
Joined: Dec 13, 2005
Location: *inaudible*

Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#252 » by stellation » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:54 am

Nebula1 wrote:I have decided to give Ish Smith mad love however.

Is it just so you can say "Man, I LOVE that Ish!"?
#FreeChuckDiesel
ttime1
Banned User
Posts: 408
And1: 0
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#253 » by ttime1 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:57 am

paul wrote:
blazza18 wrote:
paul wrote:Ha.


I wish people would stop box score watching and actually watch games. But whatevs. Let people think that.

Clearly its still Ellis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bogut.


Seriously though, they maybe spent 5 minutes on the floor together and I can't be positive but am not sure Jermaine got a single statistic the entire time they were. I don't mind boxscore watching as long as you then don't pretend that you know your head from your ass and talk in specifics.



Mup.

I guess there is a reason why some folks look in the mirror and can't tell the difference. Probably because their crap come out of both. But that's an entirely different story. What is relevant is that Ellis was drafted deep into the second round of the same draft that Bogut was drafted and has had way more success in the league. Bogut can't even stay healthy enough to tie his own shoes and when he is he can't tie an aged Jermaine O'neal's. Box scoring is the short of it; the long of it is why wasn't he in the game when O'neal was doing his damage? Why? Because he can not for the life of him stay healthy. If he could and could play at his best, he would still be a Buck. But he has not demonstrated that he can. At his absolute best, he is a Bill Walton clone, and that is a stretch.

.
User avatar
humanrefutation
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 30,351
And1: 13,869
Joined: Jun 05, 2006
       

Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#254 » by humanrefutation » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:59 am

stellation wrote:
Nebula1 wrote:I have decided to give Ish Smith mad love however.

Is it just so you can say "Man, I LOVE that Ish!"?


Hey, that has some value.
User avatar
paul
RealGM
Posts: 32,398
And1: 1,038
Joined: Dec 11, 2007
 

Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#255 » by paul » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:04 am

ttime1 wrote:I guess there is a reason why some folks look in the mirror and can't tell the difference. Probably because their crap come out of both. But that's an entirely different story. What is relevant is that Ellis was drafted deep into the second round of the same draft that Bogut was drafted and has had way more success in the league. Bogut can't even stay healthy enough to tie his own shoes and when he is he can't tie an aged Jermaine O'neal's. Box scoring is the short of it; the long of it is why wasn't he in the game when O'neal was doing his damage? Why? Because he can not for the life of him stay healthy. If he could and could play at his best, he would still be a Buck. But he has not demonstrated that he can. At his absolute best, he is a Bill Walton clone, and that is a stretch.


He wasn't in the game with O'neal because O'neal's a backup. Bogut played against the starter Gortat because, wait for it, he's a starter. Carry on.
sneakerdust
Banned User
Posts: 856
And1: 101
Joined: Oct 04, 2012
Location: www.indeed.com
Contact:
 

Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#256 » by sneakerdust » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:14 am

humanrefutation wrote:
sneakerdust wrote:The reason I lied is that the rest of your tone of the alternative argument not understanding or assuming you have a higher moral ground because you feel impacted by the behavior of others has nothing to do with the argument. It is a technique to stifle debate which I find insidious - yet understandable because the technique is ingrained by our education system from a young age.


You're right, it does stifle debate. But that's because unless you're a member of a targeted group, claiming that you can disagree about whether your statement was racist towards that group makes as much sense as my decision to debate with an oncologist about her cancer diagnosis. It's not your field of experience or expertise. The whole idea of "walking a mile in my shoes" comes into mind here.

That would allow anyone to claim they were offended by anything and that it is "racist" and they can tell the "offender" what to do. The seeds of authoritarianism. I prefer thicker skin, humor, economic interaction, and just plain getting along and ostracizing aholes as a better, more sustainable solution.

Racism is pretty easy to understand. I gave the definition before. All those jokes are not racist by definition. Thus they have no impact as you wish to ascribe to them.


And yet, at least three or four people vocally stated their objection to those statements. But, I guess they had no impact, huh?

But as the different social/cultural mores of Continental Europeans v. Latin American Europeans, Caribbean blacks vs. American blacks, or between various Native Tribes illustrate - those idiosyncrasies that make us interesting as individuals and groups are not based on race. And the humor/hate/behavior based on them is not racist.


Absolutely agree that the differences which define our respective cultures are worth celebrating. But, it's certainly racist when attitudes towards those groups are based on hate. And it still becomes racist when you attempt to push someone into a box and identify them solely based on their stereotypes regarding their cultural heritage. So, when someone calls me a camel jockey because I'm of Middle Eastern descent, or says that someone's who's Black must love eating watermelon and fried chicken, it's racist not because riding camels or enjoying chicken is a bad thing, but because they're ascribing a stereotype about my ethnic identity to my personal identity. They're looking at me as a member of a certain ethnic or racial group first and foremost, and judging me based upon that stereotype. And that can have tremendous implications in social dynamics.


That's cool. I just point out ethnicity is not race. Segregation leads to this confusion. That's the crux of 84.5634% of this juxtaposition of views. Race is genetic based. Ethnicity is behavior based. You cannot ascribe the illogical nature of racism to different views people have on behavior. Good debate. Gnight!
ttime1
Banned User
Posts: 408
And1: 0
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#257 » by ttime1 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:18 am

paul wrote:
ttime1 wrote:I guess there is a reason why some folks look in the mirror and can't tell the difference. Probably because their crap come out of both. But that's an entirely different story. What is relevant is that Ellis was drafted deep into the second round of the same draft that Bogut was drafted and has had way more success in the league. Bogut can't even stay healthy enough to tie his own shoes and when he is he can't tie an aged Jermaine O'neal's. Box scoring is the short of it; the long of it is why wasn't he in the game when O'neal was doing his damage? Why? Because he can not for the life of him stay healthy. If he could and could play at his best, he would still be a Buck. But he has not demonstrated that he can. At his absolute best, he is a Bill Walton clone, and that is a stretch.


He wasn't in the game with O'neal because O'neal's a backup. Bogut played against the starter Gortat because, wait for it, he's a starter. Carry on.


Yes he is and to his credit he did post over ten boards and had a few block shots. He finished with less than 10 points and shot below .500. Most #1 picks in the league play regardless of rather or not the opposing team's back-ups or starts are playing simply because they are good enough and healthy enough to do so. Those top draft choices who don't, i,e K.Brown are considered BUST. Although I think Bogut is a lot better than Brown, his classification can't be too far from being a bust. Which by definition makes Bogut a Buster. BUt hey, to each is own. I actually would like to see him consistently play at his best and ACTUALLY live up to his potential. But what I would like to see and what the reality is are two different things.

I simply get tired of some folks bagging on Ellis yet, want to give Bogut the Buster a pass. Ellis was drafted late in the second round, yet has been a borderline all-star for much of his career. While Bogut was the #1 pick during that same year and had 1/2 of a season of borderline all-star play. Yes, Ellis has his flaws, but he has climbed higher than what most expected to more consistently play at a higher level than Bogut ever has.
ttime1
Banned User
Posts: 408
And1: 0
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#258 » by ttime1 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:26 am

sneakerdust wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
sneakerdust wrote:The reason I lied is that the rest of your tone of the alternative argument not understanding or assuming you have a higher moral ground because you feel impacted by the behavior of others has nothing to do with the argument. It is a technique to stifle debate which I find insidious - yet understandable because the technique is ingrained by our education system from a young age.


You're right, it does stifle debate. But that's because unless you're a member of a targeted group, claiming that you can disagree about whether your statement was racist towards that group makes as much sense as my decision to debate with an oncologist about her cancer diagnosis. It's not your field of experience or expertise. The whole idea of "walking a mile in my shoes" comes into mind here.

Racism is pretty easy to understand. I gave the definition before. All those jokes are not racist by definition. Thus they have no impact as you wish to ascribe to them.


And yet, at least three or four people vocally stated their objection to those statements. But, I guess they had no impact, huh?

But as the different social/cultural mores of Continental Europeans v. Latin American Europeans, Caribbean blacks vs. American blacks, or between various Native Tribes illustrate - those idiosyncrasies that make us interesting as individuals and groups are not based on race. And the humor/hate/behavior based on them is not racist.


Absolutely agree that the differences which define our respective cultures are worth celebrating. But, it's certainly racist when attitudes towards those groups are based on hate. And it still becomes racist when you attempt to push someone into a box and identify them solely based on their stereotypes regarding their cultural heritage. So, when someone calls me a camel jockey because I'm of Middle Eastern descent, or says that someone's who's Black must love eating watermelon and fried chicken, it's racist not because riding camels or enjoying chicken is a bad thing, but because they're ascribing a stereotype about my ethnic identity to my personal identity. They're looking at me as a member of a certain ethnic or racial group first and foremost, and judging me based upon that stereotype. And that can have tremendous implications in social dynamics.


That's cool. I just point out ethnicity is not race. Segregation leads to this confusion. That's the crux of 84.5634% of this juxtaposition of views. Race is genetic based. Ethnicity is behavior based. You cannot ascribe the illogical nature of racism to different views people have on behavior. Good debate. Gnight!


Although I disagree that ethnicity and race are separate when they are most often used and considered one in the same, I really appreciate the level of intelligence that has been displayed during this conversation. It is something that Milwaukee needs more of.
User avatar
Baddy Chuck
RealGM
Posts: 49,519
And1: 22,605
Joined: Apr 18, 2006
 

Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#259 » by Baddy Chuck » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:29 am

Houston got a recent top 5 pick for their Tobias Harris, we got JJ Redick. That is why we are still the Milwaukee Bucks.
John Henson wrote:This lady just asked me who I play for and I said the Milwaukee Bucks, she quickly replied “oh the highschool across the street?”
User avatar
ampd
RealGM
Posts: 21,268
And1: 4,883
Joined: Dec 06, 2010

Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#260 » by ampd » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:33 am

ttime1 wrote:Although I disagree that ethnicity and race are separate when they are most often used and considered one in the same, I really appreciate the level of intelligence that has been displayed during this conversation. It is something that Milwaukee needs more of.


All in service of a taco stand joke about a mexican guy. Consider me skeptical.

Return to Milwaukee Bucks