yardbarker

NCAA Wiretap Headlines

Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls

Moderators: Ben, HomoSapien, Morten Jensen, Senor Chang, KingCuban, fleet, Rerisen, Tommy Udo 6 , DASMACKDOWN, DuckIII, alucryts

Post#41 Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls
Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:09 pm by jl342323

WinCity wrote:
:lol:

but seriously looking at Webbers reasoning it comes down to two things: First, the O and D ratings for these two teams. Now, which would Melo an offensive powerhouse with limited defensive impact compliment better:

Off Rtg: 111.0 (4th of 30) ▪ Def Rtg: 106.3 (13th of 30)

Off Rtg: 102.5 (28th of 30) ▪ Def Rtg: 100.5 (2nd of 30)

and then we have coaching:

Thibs

vs

McHale

I mean is that even a contest?


You give Thibs a Rose and Melo next season I guarantee he gives us a top 6-7 offense at worst, and still a top 3 defense. Whats McHale going to do to improve HOU's D with Melo? Are they really going to improve over 4th rated O?



Melo is the ideal player the bulls should get. I have been saying the bulls would be better off with 3 perimeter threats + taj and noah. that is a championship lineup.

What i wrote in my first post in this thread was a response to CWebb on the bulls offense. The bulls offense sucked, even with Derrick Rose. Mainly because thibs built his system emphasizing his defense way too much.
“He don’t care (about offense). He just cares about defense. When we come down or shoot a bad shot or whatever, he don’t really care about that. -Rose talking about Thibs
jl342323
General Manager
User avatar
Posts: 7,955
And1: 360
Joined: May 25, 2010
Top

Post#42 Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls
Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:10 pm by The Force.

I mean, he's probably right that Melo shouldn't come to Chicago but his reasoning is pretty dumb. Rose's health is the main reason FA will likely shy away from the Bulls. It has nothing to do with Thibs.
The Force.
Lead Assistant
User avatar
Posts: 4,514
And1: 235
Joined: May 30, 2008
Location: Chicago
Top

Post#43 Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls
Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:11 pm by RoseTheFuture22

Mediocre offense yes, terrible no. The biggest problem during Thib's time here is we've had no shooters in an era that shooting is at an absolute premium
RoseTheFuture22
Starter
User avatar
Posts: 2,286
And1: 165
Joined: Dec 15, 2008
Top

Post#44 Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls
Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:15 pm by Rerisen

jl342323 wrote:What i wrote in my first post in this thread was a response to CWebb on the bulls offense. The bulls offense sucked, even with Derrick Rose. Mainly because thibs built his system emphasizing his defense way too much.


It wasn't just about Thibs, the management brought in lopsided defensive talent, and failed at bringing proper offensive talent.

The offense wasn't good, because outside Rose, it did not have good offensive talent.
Rerisen
Forum Mod - Bulls
Forum Mod - Bulls
User avatar
Posts: 76,522
And1: 7,376
Joined: Nov 23, 2003
Top

Post#45 Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls
Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:18 pm by Mr. Tibbs

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:In Roses last two healthy seasons the Bulls had the 11th and 5th rated offenses in the NBA.


My first move as soon as I read that article was to confirm on basketball reference that I hadn't completely forgotten the 10-12 seasons. Even if you throw an asterisk on the 5th rated offense due to a shortened season, if we made an 11th ranked offense without Melo, I feel like its reasonable we could do the same or better with him.
RIP Johnny Red Kerr, Norm Van Lier, Pdenninggolden, Bullsmaniac
Mr. Tibbs
Lead Assistant
User avatar
Posts: 5,815
And1: 123
Joined: Jun 24, 2006
Top

Post#46 Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls
Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:21 pm by Mech Engineer

Rerisen wrote:
jl342323 wrote:What i wrote in my first post in this thread was a response to CWebb on the bulls offense. The bulls offense sucked, even with Derrick Rose. Mainly because thibs built his system emphasizing his defense way too much.


It wasn't just about Thibs, the management brought in lopsided defensive talent, and failed at bringing proper offensive talent.

The offense wasn't good, because outside Rose, it did not have good offensive talent.


When your SG plan went from D-Wade/Joe Johnson/JJ Reddick to Keith Bogans/Ronnie Brewer, I don't know if you can blame Thibs much on devising a scheme not involving much plays for his SG.

And, you lose your superstar and the main ball handler, trade your 2nd best player for nothing and your 2nd highest paid player decides to amnesty himself on the court...and Thibs has to run his offense through his Center, it is not on Thibs. Actually, after the all-star break the Bulls were in the low 20s in offensive rating(not good but not last either).
Mech Engineer
General Manager
User avatar
Posts: 8,253
And1: 1,092
Joined: Apr 10, 2012
Location: NW Suburbs
Top

Post#47 Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls
Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:40 pm by ChiCitySPORTS#1

Melo doesnt need to be coached by an offensive minded coach. He's already one of the best offensive players in the league, he'll get his regardless.
ChiCitySPORTS#1
RealGM
Posts: 14,293
And1: 1,123
Joined: Jul 2, 2006
Location: West Loop
Top

Post#48 Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls
Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:42 pm by Betta Bulleavit

jl342323 wrote:
WinCity wrote:
:lol:

but seriously looking at Webbers reasoning it comes down to two things: First, the O and D ratings for these two teams. Now, which would Melo an offensive powerhouse with limited defensive impact compliment better:

Off Rtg: 111.0 (4th of 30) ▪ Def Rtg: 106.3 (13th of 30)

Off Rtg: 102.5 (28th of 30) ▪ Def Rtg: 100.5 (2nd of 30)

and then we have coaching:

Thibs

vs

McHale

I mean is that even a contest?


You give Thibs a Rose and Melo next season I guarantee he gives us a top 6-7 offense at worst, and still a top 3 defense. Whats McHale going to do to improve HOU's D with Melo? Are they really going to improve over 4th rated O?



Melo is the ideal player the bulls should get. I have been saying the bulls would be better off with 3 perimeter threats + taj and noah. that is a championship lineup.

What i wrote in my first post in this thread was a response to CWebb on the bulls offense. The bulls offense sucked, even with Derrick Rose. Mainly because thibs built his system emphasizing his defense way too much.

You insist that the Bulls offense sucked even when Derrick Rose was healthy yet willfully disregard the metrics from those very seasons, which tell a different story. The bottom line is this. The Bulls' offense has sucked when the Bulls offensive options have sucked. Melo would help just a tad in that regard....
Betta Bulleavit




Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,802
And1: 346
Joined: Oct 29, 2004
Top

Post#49 Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls
Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:50 pm by PJ Brown

You're one of the top scorers in the league. The Bulls are a top defensive unit that needs a scorer. That actually adds up.
PJ Brown



Lead Assistant
User avatar
Posts: 5,004
And1: 84
Joined: Feb 19, 2002
Location: SF by way of Albany Park
Top

Post#50 Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls
Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:52 pm by jl342323

Betta Bulleavit wrote:You insist that the Bulls offense sucked even when Derrick Rose was healthy yet willfully disregard the metrics from those very seasons, which tell a different story.


Offensive rating doesnt mean much when you cant score in the last 5 minutes of the game.

It doesnt matter what you do in the regular season when nothing translates well to the playoffs.

The bottom line is this. The Bulls' offense has sucked when the Bulls offensive options have sucked.


are you playing chicken or the egg game with me? IMO, Thibs doesnt put everyone in the right position to get buckets. He focuses way too much of his time on defense and out of bounds plays that he neglects fundamentals on the offensive side. Its no wonder John Lucas the 3 and Kyle Korver publicly said Thibs doesnt give a **** about offense. Even Derrick Rose said something similar.
“He don’t care (about offense). He just cares about defense. When we come down or shoot a bad shot or whatever, he don’t really care about that. -Rose talking about Thibs
jl342323
General Manager
User avatar
Posts: 7,955
And1: 360
Joined: May 25, 2010
Top

Post#51 Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls
Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:54 pm by lostonbase

If Thibs had the horses, he would have an offense.
lostonbase




Sixth Man
Posts: 1,638
And1: 59
Joined: Nov 11, 2004
Location: Vail Co
Top

Post#52 Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls
Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:55 pm by Stratmaster

I have to agree with him about Thibs lack of offensive savvy. I have been saying that for 3 seasons now. Had the Bulls done what I suggested back then, and got an offensive minded assistant coach, they wouldn't have this concern.

As far as the Bulls being in the top half of the league offensively with Rose, having the 3rd best scorer in the league will make just about any team a top half offensive team. If you watched the Bulls for those seasons you were not watching a good offensive scheme. In fact, you weren't really watching an offensive scheme. You were watching an explosive player.

However, that doesn't mean Melo should run from the Bulls. In fact, Melo has always had a rep as a ball stopper and is probably perfectly suited for the Bulls and for a coach who's best approach to offense is to give the ball to a scorer and let him create points.
Thibs had a blood test done. He is human. They also placed kryptonite next to him, and he did not become ill.
Stratmaster
Analyst
Posts: 3,578
And1: 598
Joined: Oct 2, 2010
Top

Post#53 Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls
Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:56 pm by dumbell78

lulz Chris, that made perfect sense.
dumbell78




Analyst
User avatar
Posts: 3,453
And1: 1,203
Joined: Apr 3, 2012
Location: Sydney, Aus. by way of Muddy Water land (Chicago)
Top

Post#54 Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls
Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:57 pm by Betta Bulleavit

jl342323 wrote:
Betta Bulleavit wrote:You insist that the Bulls offense sucked even when Derrick Rose was healthy yet willfully disregard the metrics from those very seasons, which tell a different story.


Offensive rating doesnt mean much when you cant score in the last 5 minutes of the game.

It doesnt matter what you do in the regular season when nothing translates well to the playoffs.

The bottom line is this. The Bulls' offense has sucked when the Bulls offensive options have sucked.


are you playing chicken or the egg game with me? IMO, Thibs doesnt put everyone in the right position to get buckets. He focuses way too much of his time on defense and out of bounds plays that he neglects fundamentals on the offensive side. Its no wonder John Lucas the 3 and Kyle Korver publicly said Thibs doesnt give a **** about offense. Even Derrick Rose said something similar.


I suppose this is where we will have to agree to disagree. Obviously Thibs is more of a defensive coach and always will be. That's his identity. However, he does run an offensive system that is predicated on constant ball movement and finding the open shooter. The problem with that type of offense is that it doesn't work very well when you don't have guys that can knock down shots. And for that matter, I can't think of too many offenses that will work without guys that can consistently knock down shots. It's just damn hard.

To your point about not being able to score in the last 5 minutes of games...that's a very obvious problem. Nobody is going to disagree with you there. But that's not a system problem...that's a personnel problem. One that (again) Melo would go a long way towards fixing.
Betta Bulleavit




Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,802
And1: 346
Joined: Oct 29, 2004
Top

Post#55 Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls
Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:58 pm by Stratmaster

lostonbase wrote:If Thibs had the horses, he would have an offense.


No. No he wouldn't. Or at least only to the extent of what that talent can creat on its own. Thibs had the 3rd best scorer in the league, a proven scorer in Boozer, Deng, Korver... He never understood how to use his best offensive players.

I mean yeah, if he had Rose, Melo, Love he would have an offense despite his weaknesses as an offensive coach. But then so would any other coach in the league.
Thibs had a blood test done. He is human. They also placed kryptonite next to him, and he did not become ill.
Stratmaster
Analyst
Posts: 3,578
And1: 598
Joined: Oct 2, 2010
Top

Post#56 Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls
Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:59 pm by Rerisen

People must have forgotten that Thibs stole and inserted a bunch of SA plays to start the year, and planned to revamp the offense around 'read and react', a very similar style to how the Spurs play.

He might have been thinking in real time right along with Pop on how to defeat the top dog.

But it didn't work because we didn't have the talent to make it work, lack of shooting and on ball handling, and Rose wasn't healthy nor used to playing in such a way, and then he got hurt again before he could even try to learn it, ruining the season.
Rerisen
Forum Mod - Bulls
Forum Mod - Bulls
User avatar
Posts: 76,522
And1: 7,376
Joined: Nov 23, 2003
Top

Post#57 Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls
Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:02 pm by Stratmaster

micromonkey wrote:Chris--calm down and take a time out.

Wait do you have a timeout? :D


Yeah, and he is talking about playing smart lol
Thibs had a blood test done. He is human. They also placed kryptonite next to him, and he did not become ill.
Stratmaster
Analyst
Posts: 3,578
And1: 598
Joined: Oct 2, 2010
Top

Post#58 Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls
Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:08 pm by jl342323

Betta Bulleavit wrote:I suppose this is where we will have to agree to disagree. Obviously Thibs is more of a defensive coach and always will be. That's his identity. However, he does run an offensive system that is predicated on constant ball movement and finding the open shooter.



Thibs doesnt have an offensive system. When he had healthy Derrick Rose it was all about get him the best shot at the basket. Then there was constant single double screen plays for rip/kover and some utah flex to get boozer going. That wasnt a system, he used plays from legendary coaches like sloan, daly, coach k as a decoy to set up Derrick Rose. Like Strat said above, Thibs' best approach to offense is to give the ball to Derrick Rose.

And lastly, the bulls ball movement looked the best when they had korver, brewer, and boozer playing together.
“He don’t care (about offense). He just cares about defense. When we come down or shoot a bad shot or whatever, he don’t really care about that. -Rose talking about Thibs
jl342323
General Manager
User avatar
Posts: 7,955
And1: 360
Joined: May 25, 2010
Top

Post#59 Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls
Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:12 pm by kyrv

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:In Roses last two healthy seasons the Bulls had the 11th and 5th rated offenses in the NBA.


:lol:

Thanks for your input Weber. You need a timeout.
Melo: I don't care about the money. I have money... :o
Pat Riley is a genius and will never let Lebron leave Miami. No, really.
kyrv
RealGM
User avatar
Posts: 53,254
And1: 1,585
Joined: Jan 1, 2003
Location: Ducktown
Top

Post#60 Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls
Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:12 pm by DRoseIsNotNice

Jerry Sloan, we could use your offense
Rose - Butler - McDermott - Gasol - Noah
DRoseIsNotNice


Lead Assistant
User avatar
Posts: 4,993
And1: 1,250
Joined: Feb 16, 2013
Top

PreviousNext

Return to Chicago Bulls


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: atticus14, bernun, Bulls_n_Sox, Chuck Everett, dumbell78, Heat3, IbankingBoiler, Jayme96, kyrv, McBulls, Smashboy9, Tenchi Ryu, TheEndIsNigh, therebirth, vjoali